Irish Perspectives on Israel and Palestine

[Anonymous]

@SuperS54

There has not always, or even now, been an “open border between the two countries”, if you want to be correct, there are not two countries, just one with an occupying force in the north of it. The is democracy in the south of Ireland, not in the north.

What on earth is that supposed to mean ?

@SuperS54

People in the North do not live “together peacefully”, with either each other, or the south. This was never an issue of religion, there have been Protestants in the IRA

Do you even know the difference between the IRA and the Provisional IRA ? Name one Irish Protestant who was in the Provisional IRA post-Operation Harvest (do you know what Operation Harvest was my “expert” friend ?).

@SuperS54

and catholics in the British army and the most hated of institutes, the RUC.

And several Roman Catholics who joined the RUC were shot by the Provisional IRA. But presumably that is fine in your philosophy.

@SuperS54

If you want to post crap, then pick a subject you know something about, most Sasanachs have never been to Northern Ireland and haven’t a clue what it is all about. You say that most English people would “hand it back” if asked in a referendum, so why hasn’t this happened?? Ask yourself who kept Margret Thatcher in power, who kept subsequent minority Labour and Tory parties in power, the Unioist party ring any bells?? Who sent the troops into Northern Ireland when that support looked likely to fade?

What utter poppycock ! British troops arrived in Northern Ireland in 1969 because of the pogroms against Roman Catholics living in Belfast and Derry, an event that was widely covered by television news. They were greeted with relief by many of the Roman Catholic residents who saw them as protection from attack by Protestant mobs. Who sent the troops in ? James Callaghan. Your point ? I will be interested to read your analyses of parliamentary majorities from 1969 to date, and the exact numbers of Unionist MPs who held the balance after the Unionists split from the Conservative and Unionist Party in 1986.

[quote=“SuperS54”]It actually pisses me off to much to continue, if you don’t know what the true story is, then butt out. To those who are talking about Isreal and Palestine, have you ever lived there? Do you people on both sides from there? If not, how the f*ck can you consider yourself qualified to preach on the subject?
To roq, we have almost bombed them out, and if the present peaceful negotiations for their surrender and departure don’t work out, then we will finish the job.[/quote]

We ? So you are posting your support for the murder of women and children on a website in Taiwan. How sad is that ? I notice you are not actually in Ireland doing any of the bombing. I wonder when you last were in Ireland (if ever).

@SuperS54

Sorry if this seems a little over the top to some

Sorry ? In what way are you sorry ?

@SuperS54

, it’s a subject dear to my heart,

I just wonder how you would define who was “British” and who wasn’t. The English who came over prior to the Cromwellian invansions and plantations of Ulster (and elsewhere), and who took Irish names, intermarried, and became Roman Catholics. I suppose anyone descended from them would be up against the wall ? What about Arthur Guinness, the London brewer of porter and stout ? His family would have to go too. You’d lose Martin McGuinness too then I doubt, and there’s bound to be some English in him. Oh damn, Adams is an English name too. Sorry Gerry ! Shit, Charles Stewart Parnell and Wolfe Tone’s families were all bloody Englishmen too - they’d have too be bombed out too ! Oh yeah, and Grattan and that dreadful Douglas Hyde.

There wouldn’t be very many people left in your Ireland. But no matter - it would be a lovely country of a few hundred bitter old men who blame the English for their every failing. But I am happy to say bitter old Provisionals like you are a dying breed throughout the length and breadth of Ireland. I am unhappy to say that you appear to be being replaced by Loyalist paramilitary gangsters and thugs who are just as ready to bomb and maim innocents as the Provos ever were.

[Anonymous]

[quote=“roq”]Oh and I’m your biggest fan

Its obvious you haven’t got a rats arse of a clue about politics in Ireland.
You quoted a large propotion of people in the Republic were against Sinn Fein entering the Republic of Ireland assembly!!

Sinn Fein now has 5 sitting TDs(Repulic of Ireland parliamentarians). And Sinn Fein TDs have been sitting in the Republic of Ireland parliament for over 10 years. You must have got mixed up with a poll for or against participation in the Northern Ireland Assembly!!!

Idiot.[/quote]

Name the Sinn Fein TDs who have been in the Dail for ten years and their constituencies. Was Sinn Fein ever a proscribed political party in the Republic of Ireland, and was it ever an offence to broadcast the voices of SF spokesmen on ROI TV or Radio ? Why is it that members of a political party with its roots in the 1798 Sinn Fein rebellion have had to wait until the 1990s to be elected to the Dail, if they were as popular in the ROI as you say they were ? Does the Sinn Fein manifesto still have the establishment of a Marxist state for the whole of Ireland as its primary goal ?

Another note: whilst Provos and Loyalists who shot people dead during the Troubles (so called) who were locked up in the North were released under the Good Friday Agreement because their crimes were “political”, those incarcerated under Irish law in the Republic for killing Guards (Irish policemen) for political reasons were not and will not be released by the govt of the ROI. I am thinking in particular of the Provos currently locked up in Mountjoy.

[Anonymous]

@SuperS54

People in the North do not live “together peacefully”, with either each other, or the south.

Complete and utter rubbish. There are plenty of places in Northern Ireland where Protestants and Catholics get on in peace. And there are plenty of farmers with land which straddles the border - are they “Northerners” or “Southerners”. Your sweeping statement in nonsense and shows me you have either never left some hideous part of Belfast, Strabane, or Derry, or have never actually been to Northern Ireland.

[Anonymous]

One last rant:

Why don’t all the whites and blacks and yellows get out of North America?

Why not ? When you’re passing the cup around in your Boston pubs so that some kid can watch his father shot in the front room, why don’t you all pause to think what bloody hypocrites all you so-called Irish Americans are ? Where are all the red Indians now ? And a great number of the men who murdered them were Irishmen. Doesn’t sit too well with the old “Brits Out !” philosophy does it?

I would be damned interested to hear a good explanation of why if the “brits” should “get out” of Ireland, why by the same token white Americans shouldn’t get the fuck out of North America and give it back to the Indians ?

Thank you and good evening. That’ll be me banned for sure.

PS despite my anti-Provo stance, I think the real worry for NI now are these so-called loyalists destroying what’s left of Belfast.

[sandman]

Thank you and good evening. That’ll be me banned for sure.

Not if I have any say in the matter.

Pfssssssssst! Glug … glug … glug … glug … gluglugluglug drip … drip … drip.

(That’s me pouring a Guinness for you, by the way).

[imyourbiggestfan]

@sandman

[quote]Thank you and good evening. That’ll be me banned for sure.

Not if I have any say in the matter.
[/quote]

Nor I.

That was a comprehensive trashing… :!: and the silence is deafening.

[roq]

The British Army is securing British hegemony in Northern Ireland. That’s the only security they bring. You Brits just can’t get over it, you lost your empire, crying over the loss of Hong Kong like babies, your rabbit eared Prince Charles all misty eyed. it made me laugh so hard to see what your country was reduced to. Your country is a class riddled, uneducated, sinking joke. Get your soliders out of our country now.

Your ex Prime Minister Edward Heath even admitted your soldiers were out of control killing innocent civilians on Bloody Sunday, but will anyone stand up and take responsibility for it? No.

It’s perfectly justifiable to blow up a foreign occupiers army. Not in the least irrational imyourbiggestfan.

Taiwan Beer. Protestants are not necessarily British citizens. Indeed there are many protestants in Ireland today and since the founding of the state Douglas Hyde etc who indeed support a United Ireland. They are Irish and always have been. You are straying into loyalist sectarianism. It wasn’t the Irish who invented that. We just want to be left alone.

[sandman]

Just as a matter of interest, roq, how many squaddies were blown up or maimed in the Omagh bombing? Enniskillen?

[Anonymous]

@roq

Taiwan Beer. Protestants are not necessarily British citizens. Indeed there are many protestants in Ireland today and since the founding of the state Douglas Hyde etc who indeed support a United Ireland. They are Irish and always have been. You are straying into loyalist sectarianism. It wasn’t the Irish who invented that. We just want to be left alone.

I’m not deliberately trying to promote a Unionist view - in fact I am 100% in favour of a united Ireland that respects the rights of both Protestants and Roman Catholics, and doesn’t try and take revenge on Prods for the acts of their forefathers. However, the Protestants of Northern Ireland have to IMHO give up unionism, and realise their future is in a united Ireland, and they should have started negotiating with Dublin a long time ago. I cannot see how the entity of “Northern Ireland” has any future, and with hindsight it was doomed from the beginning.

Equally I realise there are many Protestants in the north of Ireland who couldn’t bear to be part of a united Ireland and I don’t really know what to say to them. I suspect a lot of them have never spent any time in the 26 counties and haven’t a clue what they’re turning their noses up at. There is no contradiction at all in being an Irish Protestant in Northern Ireland and believing in a united Ireland - I wonder when they’ll wake up to that ?

The so-called “loyalists” who are causing all the trouble in Belfast at the moment should be treated as the criminals they are. I think their attacks on their victims have no basis in ideology, but are simple gangland turf wars. They are terrorising their own communities and those surrounding in a way that seems to be very little different to how the Provisionals controlled their respective areas.

I just get upset when I hear of talk of “bombing” the brits out. They don’t want NI to be part of the UK anymore, they hate the Unionists and the Unionists hate them, and it is just a matter of time. I can’t see how a return to violence would bring a united Ireland any closer. Anyway, we’re not going to solve it on this website - but I can see a united Ireland in my lifetime, and the sooner the better.

[imyourbiggestfan]

@roq

It’s perfectly justifiable to blow up a foreign occupiers army. Not in the least irrational imyourbiggestfan.

But you said:

@roq

We don’t reason the problem out

Come on roq, you don’t even know what you said about yourself!

You dodge all the evidence that contradicts your view and continue to spew bile.

And, yes, can we have an answer to some of the questions others have asked you - why is Sinn Fein’s support so low? Why has it risen only as it has claimed to eschew violence? Why is deliberately targetting civilians a “perfectly justifiable [way] to blow up a foreign occupiers army?”

If you are rational, you will be able to debate these points calmly. However, I suspect your original self-diagnosis was probably pretty much on the mark.

[TNT]

[quote=“roq”]The British Army is securing British hegemony in Northern Ireland. That’s the only security they bring. You Brits just can’t get over it, you lost your empire, crying over the loss of Hong Kong like babies, your rabbit eared Prince Charles all misty eyed. it made me laugh so hard to see what your country was reduced to. Your country is a class riddled, uneducated, sinking joke. Get your soliders out of our country now.

Your ex Prime Minister Edward Heath even admitted your soldiers were out of control killing innocent civilians on Bloody Sunday, but will anyone stand up and take responsibility for it? No.

It’s perfectly justifiable to blow up a foreign occupiers army. Not in the least irrational imyourbiggestfan.

Taiwan Beer. Protestants are not necessarily British citizens. Indeed there are many protestants in Ireland today and since the founding of the state Douglas Hyde etc who indeed support a United Ireland. They are Irish and always have been. You are straying into loyalist sectarianism. It wasn’t the Irish who invented that. We just want to be left alone.[/quote]

ROQ… I am Irish… your idealogy and views of the Britsh sound like some guy brought up on years of republican songs and stories of the years of suppression. …how has that anything to do with the present siutation…

How long are we to blame the British for the past… should be hold anyone with a British passport responsible for the actions of their forefathers… where do you draw the line…

As you said before… the British interest in Northern Ireland for years was to do with the Conservatives needing the support of the Unionists… but not now

Ireland has given up claims to Northen Ireland… If you feel different please take it up with the Irish government… they gave up on Northen Ireland in a referdum voted on by Irish Citizens of the Irish Republic…

I have yet to see how blowing up British targets will reverse this desicion… How can they be an army of occupation when Northern Ireland is part of the UK

The treaty signed in 1921 gave them Northen Ireland…

and you saying
"Your country is a class riddled, uneducated, sinking joke. Get your soliders out of our country now. "
how did you come to that conclusion… or is that just one of those “off the top of the head” comments to back up your “argument”…

There was a lot of bad shit done on each side of the divide by both sides…
but do we have to sound like a broken record… and do you really think most people in Ireland, Northern Ireland, and England, who have dealt and lived and lost people with it… want to hear it again and again…

I am Irish and am proud to be, I have an Irish passport and call Ireland my home… but it seems to some people, how Irish you are depends on how much you can hate and scold the British… HOW SAD