I just read an article that said it might not be such a good thing to express too much interest in a guy/girl early on, meaning before you’re actually together. The article said the best combo of emotions to insure interest and attraction is hope and anxiety. Is that true? Is this why women go after aholes do much? Because the aholes keep the girls guessing, which is a turn on…?
as the old adage goes “Treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen”.
I’d say it was true, was never very good at it myself. The moment you become too needy is the moment women usually walk away, so be independent and do your own thing. You don’t have be and an a-hole though.
True.
Spilling too much too soon is unseemly. Like showing up naked for the first date.
meh… sorry. Better analogy: it’s like going to the peelers, and the striper walks out on stage, naked.
Dull! No show, no revelation, no discovery, no excitement. “Money back, please.”
The keepers are the ones that cause a fight early on in the relationship over a little thing to see if the guy is a real pussy or not. Test them early on then you know if you are wasting your time or not.
Example.
The wifey, in our early days, took me out for a lunch with a couple of friends. Me, thinking nothing of it, 2-3 tops right? I was surprised to see a table full of her Tai-Da classmates. No men. Of course none of them spoke English. Just me. All alone. Inside I was in a fucking rage. And what did they order? The slimiest seafood. Even the best chopsticker couldn’t pick up half of this shit. She told me in later years her and her friends purposely ordered that to test my reaction and table etiquette. She didn’t want to be with a farm animal.
Me, during this hell of a meal, stayed cool and calm. Somewhat aware of their tricks. I am fully supportive of a woman that wants to test her man early on. BUT, instead of focusing on the bright side, move over to the dark side of the force! That’s the keeper.
Is it possible to let the girl know you’re into her without it seeming needy? Where would the line be?
To clarify, I’m not talking about something like “I built a shrine to you in my bedroom, and I think I love you” the first time you meet. I guess it’s partly related to the line between flirting, which would be acceptable early on, and…showing too intense a level of emotion for the stage of the relationship? What do the ladies think?
“Treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen”? …wow… This thread may start blurring into the other about women’s bad reltionship choices.
[quote=“baberenglish”]The keepers are the ones that cause a fight early on in the relationship over a little thing to see if the guy is a real pussy or not. Test them early on then you know if you are wasting your time or not.
Example.
The wifey, in our early days, took me out for a lunch with a couple of friends. Me, thinking nothing of it, 2-3 tops right? I was surprised to see a table full of her Tai-Da classmates. No men. Of course none of them spoke English. Just me. All alone. Inside I was in a fucking rage. And what did they order? The slimiest seafood. Even the best chopsticker couldn’t pick up half of this shit. She told me in later years her and her friends purposely ordered that to test my reaction and table etiquette. She didn’t want to be with a farm animal.
Me, during this hell of a meal, stayed cool and calm. Somewhat aware of their tricks. I am fully supportive of a woman that wants to test her man early on. BUT, instead of focusing on the bright side, move over to the dark side of the force! That’s the keeper.[/quote]
I think to most men, this is the exact opposite of the definition of a keeper! If I would have done something like that to my husband when we first started dating, it would have been our last date for sure. 
[quote]. She told me in later years her and her friends purposely ordered that to test my reaction and table etiquette. She didn’t want to be with a farm animal.
[/quote]
If my wife did that to me during our dating stage, I would have acted like a gentlemen throughout the dinner, but then like a farm animal in the taxi on the way home. 
Bit of Ying and a bit of Yang.
What baberenglish is describing is a typical Asian woman trick. It would never work in the States (or probably any other Western country), but be considered rude. Anyway, I was thinking of western women when I started this thread, not Taiwanese.
western women? who knows what to do to romance em? IF they like you, you are in in 10 seconds. Otherwise, best go find another fish to fry.
[quote=“superguavaguy”]Is it possible to let the girl know you’re into her without it seeming needy? Where would the line be?
To clarify, I’m not talking about something like “I built a shrine to you in my bedroom, and I think I love you” the first time you meet. I guess it’s partly related to the line between flirting, which would be acceptable early on, and…showing too intense a level of emotion for the stage of the relationship? What do the ladies think?
“Treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen”? …wow… This thread may start blurring into the other about women’s bad reltionship choices.[/quote]
“Treat 'em mean…” may work with young, immature types, but has the opposite effect on women who have anything about them. However, getting too sappy too soon is a HUGE turn-off (as is talking about marriage, kids, blah blah blah). A bit of mystery is good, especially in the beginning. Keep her intrigued. Be courteous, polite, kind, let her know you’re interested through your actions more than through words in the beginning if you know what I mean. If you must get verbal, keep it succinct. Men who go on and on about how much they love you with endless sappiness make women want to run (well, me anyway!).
Having said all of that, I’m a Western woman. Taiwanese women think very differently when it comes to these things from what I understand…so I guess it depends on who you’re with, taking cultural factors into play and all that.
EDIT: I see you are talking about Western women now, so my advice holds true. DO NOT spill your heart out too soon, or she will run, no matter how much she liked you previously. When this happened to me in the past, I ran every single time.
This thread isn’t so much about me and a specific woman, but just dating in general. Seeing this article just got me thinking, especially since I’m interested in dating western women now.
A little mystery keeps people interested. I don’t think one needs to be assholic.
Now that we’re on this theme, Chinese/Taiwanese gay guys can be incredibly clingy. Lots of random texts throughout the day. Impossible requests for assistance at odd hours, e.g., a spider appeared in my room. Overall I actually enjoy the attention.
Yes. Even if it’s true, keep it to yourself for a while. If you go in too quick with your heart on a platter, it’s really tough not to seem needy. It doesn’t seem mature or manly, either.
I was in McDonald’s for a while today, waiting for a friend. A Taiwanese couple were in a corner trying to make out. Well, HE was. She was being very coy, and very much a tease. I thought she played him beautifully, but it would never work for a western couple.
A) Eww. The guy was almost thinner than she was.
B) He was PETTING her. Like a puppy. And being so generally overly solicitious that it made me want to tell the girl to get some self-respect.
C) He was literally hanging all over her.
D) When she finally let him kiss her, it was the lousiest looking kiss I’ve ever seen.
For a Taiwanese couple, I’m sure it was the beginning of a lovely evening. She was playing her game very well.
But that just would never have gone over with an American woman (girl) over the age of 14. I sat there wondering at how she could stand to be with a guy like that, or to act like that herself.
Anyway. If you’re a western man and you want to date a western woman, you’re gonig to have to be a MAN about it.
[quote]
A little mystery keeps people interested. I don’t think one needs to be assholic.
Now that we’re on this theme, Chinese/Taiwanese gay guys can be incredibly clingy. Lots of random texts throughout the day. Impossible requests for assistance at odd hours, e.g., a spider appeared in my room. Overall I actually enjoy the attention.[/quote]
Sounds like Taiwanese women.
By the way, here’s another question for the Western ladies: how much can a guy text in the pre-dating phase before it’s considered excessive? I’m used to the Taiwanese way (tons of texting, even early on). When I was still living back in the West I never had a mobile phone, in fact at that time they weren’t as common as today. So, I think I might be a bit out of touch with mobile technology/dating etiquette.
I think the key is not hiding how interested you are, but not being that interested right off the bat for no real reason.
I mean, we all see people and are instantly attracted to them, right? And then, sometimes, after that initial moment of intense attraction, we go home and think about this person, and imagine them to have all of these wonderful qualities that we’ve been searching for our entire life. We think of something they did, or said, or something we know about them, and that tiny tidbit becomes a well-spring of romantic imaginings. But the truth is, they may have NONE OR VERY FEW OF THE QUALITIES we’re searching for.
If you show interest right off the bat, the object of your interest is probably aware that you’re interested in your idea of them, which is a complete illusion and not actually interested in them. It’s not even flattering! If they fall for you so fast, it must have to do with either a) looks (which people can’t control anyways) or b) desperation, and being pursued by a desperate person isn’t specific- they don’t love you cause you’re you they love you cause they desperately want to love someone, ANYONE! Which also means their affection is transferable at the drop of a hat.
I’ve been in this situation and it was horrible. The guy thought he was in love with me, and I liked him a lot too, but as we spent more time together, I think I was constantly disappointing him because I turned out not to be what he imagined I was. I was filled with anxiety over disappointing him and he was filled with frustration because I was falling off of his pedestal in slow-motion. It wasn’t fun for either of us.
I still make that mistake of falling for someone more or less instantly (that was sort of the case with my current boyfriend) but I try REALLY hard to keep my eyes open and see who he really is instead of who I imagined him to be. I even tried not to think of him too much in the early stages, because I knew that all of the ideas of him that I got from my daydreams would get in the way of seeing him for what he truly is. Luckily, being a real person and not just a figment of my imagination, he’s better and more interesting than I could have imagined him to be 
And that bastard totally held me at arms length for a while.
Which made me even crazier about him 
[quote=“NonTocareLeTete”]I think the key is not hiding how interested you are, but not being that interested right off the bat for no real reason.
I mean, we all see people and are instantly attracted to them, right? And then, sometimes, after that initial moment of intense attraction, we go home and think about this person, and imagine them to have all of these wonderful qualities that we’ve been searching for our entire life. We think of something they did, or said, or something we know about them, and that tiny tidbit becomes a well-spring of romantic imaginings. But the truth is, they may have NONE OR VERY FEW OF THE QUALITIES we’re searching for.
If you show interest right off the bat, the object of your interest is probably aware that you’re interested in your idea of them, which is a complete illusion and not actually interested in them. It’s not even flattering! If they fall for you so fast, it must have to do with either a) looks (which people can’t control anyways) or b) desperation, and being pursued by a desperate person isn’t specific- they don’t love you cause you’re you they love you cause they desperately want to love someone, ANYONE! Which also means their affection is transferable at the drop of a hat.
I’ve been in this situation and it was horrible. The guy thought he was in love with me, and I liked him a lot too, but as we spent more time together, I think I was constantly disappointing him because I turned out not to be what he imagined I was. I was filled with anxiety over disappointing him and he was filled with frustration because I was falling off of his pedestal in slow-motion. It wasn’t fun for either of us.
I still make that mistake of falling for someone more or less instantly (that was sort of the case with my current boyfriend) but I try REALLY hard to keep my eyes open and see who he really is instead of who I imagined him to be. I even tried not to think of him too much in the early stages, because I knew that all of the ideas of him that I got from my daydreams would get in the way of seeing him for what he truly is. Luckily, being a real person and not just a figment of my imagination, he’s better and more interesting than I could have imagined him to be
And that bastard totally held me at arms length for a while.
Which made me even crazier about him [/quote]
cute story and great advice. are you guys can i ask a gay couple too?
Every now and then you get that rare thing where you’re totally in sync when it comes to the depth of feelings for each other, and the speed at which you’re falling in love.
If you had that, you would know it and you wouldn’t be asking anyone’s opinion.
Therefore…
In all other cases, do what others have said and take it slow. Only because you can’t be sure you’re both there yet, and having one person too deeply in love can be a turn off for the other one.
You don’t have to be mean, though. I know it’s just a saying that rhymes, but even as a saying it’s not very useful. Admittedly, there are women out there (girls, I’d say) who will fall for a guy who treats them badly. But do you want to be with a girl who thinks that little of herself? I used to be that girl, and I was pathetic. Not good relationship material at all. Stay away from those. And treat your women well.
[quote=“ramleeburger”][quote=“NonTocareLeTete”]
Which made me even crazier about him 
[/quote]
cute story and great advice. are you guys can i ask a gay couple too?[/quote]
You realize we have women on Formosa too, right?
And to the OP, I think thisvisvrather relevant! 
@ramleeburger: Nontocareletet is a woman, and a pretty awesome one at that.
@tsukinodeynatsu: that might be useful if I was 16 and not 36.
I’ll say again, I wasn’t asking for personal relationship advice, but just wanted to start a conversation on the topic. I did ask for advice on what the current “rule” is for how often or how many emails/text messages it is ok to send before dating, or when you’ve just started dating. I never even owned a mobile phone when I lived back West, and have been in Asia a long time, so feel a bit out of touch.
Uncle Tomas always advises the confused singles out there to approach dating with a “I need nothing, but desire a lot” attitude.
As soon as you need a particular outcome or a particular response from someone, you lose all of your power and most of your attractiveness.
But desire? Desire without need is a very healthy thing, and it will propel you to do the right thing at the right time and to the right degree. It’ll make you powerful and attractive.
The key is to know the difference.