Well yes in my social circle in Taiwan. Hoklo and Hoklofied Hakka are the only ones that claim to be “Dai-Wan-Lang” speaking “Dai-Wan-wei” (Minnan dialect of Chinese). I’ve never heard of a Hakka or aboriginal refer to themselves as a “Dai-Wan-Lang” speaking “Dai-Wan-Wei.”
It is usually these individuals that believe they are the authentic Taiwanese (Taiwanese aboriginal, who?).
Half breed Taiwanese like myself, that have really no problem with my WSR background, are not considered authentic enough to be a “real” Taiwanese. Since I’m too much of a Taro root for them.
Which is why I always found it somewhat curious that Whites or Blacks with children in Taiwan would ever want to support TI. Since there are quite a bit of Hoklo supremist type in that group.
If a completely bicultural, bilingual individual with a little bit of WSR blood, has a tough time with these groups in Taiwan. I can only imagine what a child with a little of bit WGR blood has to endure with these real authentic Taiwanese.
But now Violent Tsai has recently come out with “Neo Nativism.” Any of you TI supporters want to clarify that, because from what I heard of her speeches, it is not flattering at all. I guess the racist “Old Nativism” was too exclusive.
Yes in my fantasy world, I speak various dialects of Chinese in Taiwan and no one has a problem with being refered to as Chinese in Taiwan. I imagine in your fantasy world, everyone is speaking English in Taiwan.
From what you just described, I sense a serious ethnic problem. Some people are trying to manipulate WSR community by singling out Hoklo as a hatred target and pretending the rest ethnic groups happily share the same identity. Thus they get your vote easily. Since you are smart, can’t you see the manipulation?
People’s identity is related to which ethnic group they belong to due to historic reasons like the 228 incident, and KMT giving partial benefits in order to sustain their authority in the past. However, it is not deterministic at the individual level. Mr. Chung, Nan-Rong who sacrificed himself to advocate freedom of speech was a WSR and supporting TI. Everyone has their own free will to observe and to choose.
This is not true. Possibilities are you’ve been manipulated to believe it.
Some politicians are benefiting from spreading arguments like this. Who are they?
This is not true. Possibilities are you’ve been manipulated to believe it.
Some politicians are benefiting from spreading arguments like this. Who are they?
This is not true. Possibilities are you’ve been manipulated to believe it.
Some politicians are benefiting from spreading arguments like this. Who are they?
Oh Sorry to tell you, I know ellected KMT officials who are mixed (they parents were both WSR and BSR) who say they are Taiwanese.
Too bad your social circle is that small, isn’t it… you should get out more…
And I also know a lot more people who are WSR descendents who simply hate Taiwanese that can be better than them. In fact, I got one right down the road… who got pissed off when he discovered he got less points in the TOEIC than my “BSR-low-class-daughter-of-a-cook” wife. And he went to live in US for 8 years… in the end, he doesn’t talk to us, neither his wife, because we are “low people” (although we own a house of same value as his, but then, my wife is a BSR, and he cannot find my country in a map, neither he knew there was a language called Portuguese (“So, Portuguese speak Spanish?” Duhhhhh). Ah, he is a doctor and a big shot in the local hospital it seems. But then again, he specialized in Proctology.
[quote=“BigJohn”]How do you know the point he was trying to make?
He said there are no Taiwanese in Taiwan. This is denying that Taiwanese have a real identity. My point is made.[/quote]
I’d be surprise if he said that, since his English is pretty piss poor.
In my Chinese language world, he said something to the effect “Which Holko, Hakka, WSR or Sinified aboriginal in Taiwan is not Chinese?”
I’m pretty confident that was his point, because even though he is afflicted with show-boating-camera-hog-ism, he’s still a Buddist leader, who’s major point is always going to be “we are all connect, thus we must seek a path of harmony with each other”
He said “There are no Taiwanese in Taiwan. There are a lot of Chinese in Taiwan. Can you identify anyone in Taiwan who is not a Chinese?” (台灣沒有台灣人，台灣有很多中國人，你說台灣哪一個不是中國人)
[quote=“ac_dropout”][quote=“BigJohn”]How do you know the point he was trying to make?
He said there are no Taiwanese in Taiwan. This is denying that Taiwanese have a real identity. My point is made.[/quote]
I’d be surprise if he said that, since his English is pretty piss poor.
In my Chinese language world, he said something to the effect “Which Holko, Hakka, WSR or Sinified aboriginal in Taiwan is not Chinese?”
I’m pretty confident that was his point, because even though he is afflicted with show-boating-camera-hog-ism, he’s still a Buddist leader, who’s major point is always going to be “we are all connect, thus we must seek a path of harmony with each other”[/quote]
Only a toal jackass would ignore the fact that he of course was speaking in Chinese in China (D’uh!) and it was translated for an English newspaper. You may dispute that he said “There are no Taiwanese in Taiwan” in Chinese but that is what the Taipei Times article quotes him as saying. I am assuming that they have competent translators.
He also said other things, but you still have not acknowledged the point I made earlier that he denies a distinctive Taiwanese identity by saying “There are no Taiwanese in Taiwan.”
I guess you have been learning from CCTV how to ignore salient facts that don’t fit into your worldview.
That plays well among the ignorant.
You are very good at writing brilliantly stupid posts.
I commend you.
Are you using the DPP old Nativist definition of Taiwanese, or the DPP Neo Nativist definition of Taiwanese?
Because until TI gets their story straight about Taiwanese, one could say their are no Taiwanese.
But most Taiwanese people who speak Taiwanese, know that aboriginal, WSR, and non-Minnan speaking Hakka are not Taiwanese.
Personally I think you need a better translator. My translation is much more accurate in my opinion.
(台灣沒有台灣人，台灣有很多中國人，你說台灣哪一個不是中國人)
(Taiwan province has no absolute tribal identity of Taiwanese. In Taiwan there are a lot of individuals that have been through Sinification. When you talk about a person in Taiwan what aspect of their lives has not gone through Sinification.)
An apolitical translation for an apolitical abbot.
[quote]This is not true. Possibilities are you’ve been manipulated to believe it.
Some politicians are benefiting from spreading arguments like this. Who are they?[/quote]
The DPP and the TSU…
In Taiwan, there is no such thing as being ethnically Taiwanese, rather there are many people who are ethnically Chinese. Can you say in Taiwan which one of them is not ethnicaly Chinese?
In Taiwan, there is no such thing as being ethnically Taiwanese, rather there are many people who are ethnically Chinese. Can you say in Taiwan which one of them is not ethnicaly Chinese?[/quote]
That is a better translation. He clearly denies that there is an ethnic Taiwanese identity.
I guess a few thousands of aboriginals will disagree with him, but, as has been in the long history of Taiwan, they are never accounted for anything except for elections.
In Taiwan, there is no such thing as being ethnically Taiwanese, rather there are many people who are ethnically Chinese. Can you say in Taiwan which one of them is not ethnicaly Chinese?[/quote]
That is a better translation. He clearly denies that there is an ethnic Taiwanese identity.[/quote]
I think your Chinese skills are lacking…
I think he denies the Taiwan Identity that the Taiwanese Independence movement likes to promote.
However, his point is quite valid “Who on Taiwan has not gone through Sinification (and thus Chinese)?”
Even Ah-mei is Chinese.
In my book, the aboriginals are the only true Taiwanese in Taiwan. Ironically though, they vote for the political party that advocates for re-unification and disagree with the Taiwan Independence version of the Taiwanese identity.
I think that going through Sinification doesn’t make anyone Chinese. It is what people feel themselves that makes them Chineses or not. Process does not equal end result.
So would you say going through Americanization doesn’t create Americans?
Thus there is no Americans according to you.
I believe this is the fundimental flaw of Taiwan Independence movement, in trying to equate the Taiwanese Identity to mean Taiwan Independence. They exclude everyone that doesn’t agree with Taiwanese Independence. The DPP has been redefining “localization” so many times, that I doubt many of the TI supporters on the board even know what the official party line is on the subject now.
In this vaccuum with conflicting definition of Taiwanese, why wouldn’t any sensible person not use Chinese to describe the cultural and ethnic situation in Taiwan?
Is not Taiwanese a dialect of Chinese? Is not Taiwan Hoklo a subgroup of Han Chinese?
Oh, you’re saying the non-TI supporters and pro-China people do WANT to be part of TI? I seeee…
Is not Canadian English a sublet of British English? American English a sublet of British English? Autralian/New Zealand English a sublet of British English? =_=
In Taiwan, there is no such thing as being ethnically Taiwanese, rather there are many people who are ethnically Chinese. Can you say in Taiwan which one of them is not ethnicaly Chinese?[/quote]
That is a better translation. He clearly denies that there is an ethnic Taiwanese identity.[/quote]
I think your Chinese skills are lacking…
[/quote]
It seems that yours are lacking, as you disagree with the most basic translation to distort the point. I am improving my Chinese steadily, but I fear that your distorted sense of “truth” or whatever you call it will never improve. A shame to waste a good brain on devolutionary “monkey in a tree throwing poo” tactics.
Ruuun!