# Is it discrimination to only hire teachers from "certain native speaking" countries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Discrimination in Taiwan\ **Created:** [April 17, 2024, 4:55am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527 "2024-04-17T04:55:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![comfy123](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/comfy123/32/258242_2.png) [@comfy123](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/comfy123)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 4:55am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/1 "2024-04-17T04:55:00Z")
There are lots of advertisements like this ![image](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/3/a/3a2fbe48d1763c260a32de326b6b73b9cbae1b5f.png) In these they say: Must be native English speakers. - Australia. - Canada. - Ireland. - New Zealand. - South Africa. - The United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) - the United States. Now many are saying that this isn’t the full list… and the advertisement is "discriminatory. And refer to the list [https://www.ihrd.ntnu.edu.tw/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/The-List-of-Nations-with-English-as-the-Official-or-Common-Language.pdf](https://www.ihrd.ntnu.edu.tw/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/The-List-of-Nations-with-English-as-the-Official-or-Common-Language.pdf) which includes places like Malaysia where only 50% of the population speaks English. Now yes, you could legally hire someone from there and get them a visa but now is that any different from hiring a local Taiwanese English teacher? Australia and other native English speaking countries only recognize a select few as “native” English speaking. Australia for example states this: ![image](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/c/2/c26a65690ef6d1164375826dd3c4b9b190e8ecf4.png) Source:[Competent English](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/meeting-our-requirements/english-language/competent-english) This means that according to Australia immigration Malaysia is NOT a native English speaking country. I know it seems like I have singled out Malaysia but you can see a common theme there. JUST because a country says English is AN official language doesn’t mean everyone speaks it or speaks it well at all. In the Philippines where my partner is from… very few people in her town speak any English at all and English is actually being wiped from the curriculum! - To call people there “native English speaking” because they hold Philippine passports nonsensical. I spoke to a lawyer on this asking about discrimination and he explained. "Taiwan discrimination laws are very weak to begin with so although it ‘may’ be considered discrimination in a western country… it is not considered discrimination in Taiwan unless they specify they want a ‘white’ teacher for example. Or don’t want teacher from xxx " ---
**Author:** ![the\_bear](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/the_bear/32/192391_2.png) [@the\_bear](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/the_bear)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 4:59am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/2 "2024-04-17T04:59:16Z")
You answered your own question with the anecdote about your girlfriend. In Taiwan the Ministry of Education defines which countries can present as native speakers. ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:00am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/3 "2024-04-17T05:00:28Z")
> [@comfy123](#): > > JUST because a country says English is AN official language doesn’t mean everyone speaks it or speaks it well at all. Right but they will have to be university graduates. I don’t overthink it personally, Taiwan’s Immigration Act prohibits discrimination based on national origin. Excluding people arbitrarily on the basis of their national origin, when they actually qualify on that basis, is discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![comfy123](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/comfy123/32/258242_2.png) [@comfy123](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/comfy123)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:02am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/4 "2024-04-17T05:02:20Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > Excluding people arbitrarily on the basis of their national origin, when they actually qualify on that basis, is discrimination. I agree and in Australia, America, UK etc that would be true. But from a legal standpoint in Taiwan it isn’t. > [@tempogain](#): > > Right but they will have to be university graduates. Yes, but now they study in Tagalog since the push by Duterte. So no difference from getting someone from Vietnam who studied in Vietnamese lol ---
**Author:** ![the\_bear](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/the_bear/32/192391_2.png) [@the\_bear](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/the_bear)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:03am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/5 "2024-04-17T05:03:26Z")
Ah it’s a Duterte thing. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![amitkattal](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/amitkattal/32/179602_2.png) [@amitkattal](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/amitkattal)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:03am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/6 "2024-04-17T05:03:40Z")
Tbh i have met many philipinos who work as english teacher here officially. Even more now because of bilingual program . There are other countries which have like zero chance Does it suck that they only want native? Sure But its more complicated because it doesnt include that parents wants their children to have a teacher with “white skin” so schools who maybe are okay hiring non natives, have to give up to parents demands. ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:03am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/7 "2024-04-17T05:03:49Z")
> [@comfy123](#): > > But from a legal standpoint in Taiwan it isn’t. Not according to the Immigration Act. ---
**Author:** ![comfy123](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/comfy123/32/258242_2.png) [@comfy123](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/comfy123)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:04am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/8 "2024-04-17T05:04:40Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > Not according to the Immigration Act. I know the part you are referring to. It is a bit more nuanced than how it is written. It basically means you can “petition” but in this case they have a “reason” so to speak. The reason can literally be anything ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:04am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/9 "2024-04-17T05:04:55Z")
> [@comfy123](#): > > Yes, but now they study in Tagalog since the push by Duterte. Then they won’t qualify for hiring, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:07am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/10 "2024-04-17T05:07:24Z")
There’s a principle that special qualities needed to perform a certain job take precedence. Which is fair and appropriate. But the text of the Immigration Act is black and white. Knowing nothing else, blanket exclusion of people on the basis of national origin is discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![comfy123](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/comfy123/32/258242_2.png) [@comfy123](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/comfy123)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:07am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/11 "2024-04-17T05:07:46Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > Then they won’t qualify for hiring, presumably. They would still qualify as they have a degree and a passport from a “recognized English speaking country.” ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:08am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/12 "2024-04-17T05:08:26Z")
That doesn’t mean they have to be hired. ---
**Author:** ![Gain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Gain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:09am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/13 "2024-04-17T05:09:16Z")
> [@comfy123](#): > > - Australia. > - Canada. > - Ireland. > - New Zealand. > - South Africa. > - The United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) > - the United States. At least they got the country names right. I’m impressed. :rofl: And it’s so random that South Africa is listed alongside the rich countries. I feel like many Taiwanese people’s perception of SA is stuck in the 70s when in reality it’s just as fucked as other countries in Africa. ---
**Author:** ![comfy123](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/comfy123/32/258242_2.png) [@comfy123](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/comfy123)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:10am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/14 "2024-04-17T05:10:18Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > Knowing nothing else, blanket exclusion of people on the basis of national origin is discrimination. Yes! I agree. But in the Taiwan legal system this is allowed. They can set specific requirements and say it is to “reduce the number of applicants applying that don’t qualify” and immigration will say “all good” - Unless they single out a specific nationality specifically (unless it is sanctioned like the banks are with Iran) ---
**Author:** ![anon24369109](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@anon24369109](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/anon24369109)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:11am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/15 "2024-04-17T05:11:22Z")
Taiwan touch your heart lol ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:12am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/16 "2024-04-17T05:12:18Z")
You’d have to show me where that is stated explicitly. That’s not my understanding of the letter of the law. ---
**Author:** ![comfy123](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/comfy123/32/258242_2.png) [@comfy123](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/comfy123)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:13am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/17 "2024-04-17T05:13:49Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > You’d have to show me where that is stated explicitly. That’s not my understanding of the letter of the law. This is directly from a Taiwanese lawyer and refers to previous case law. You will also see it reflected in the dealings @Mataiou is having at the moment too. The word of the law just says you can “petition” but doesn’t specify what is considered discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:14am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/18 "2024-04-17T05:14:17Z")
Again, I’d have to see where that is spelled out. ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:15am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/19 "2024-04-17T05:15:29Z")
> [@comfy123](#): > > The word of the law just says you can “petition” but doesn’t specify what is considered discrimination. The Immigration Act does. The section in question has been linked here many times ---
**Author:** ![comfy123](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/comfy123/32/258242_2.png) [@comfy123](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/comfy123)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 5:20am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527/20 "2024-04-17T05:20:35Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > The Immigration Act does. The section in question has been linked here many times Yes, I have linked it a lot too. I was among one of the first. **Article 62** **Any person shall not discriminate against people residing in the Taiwan Area on the basis of nationality, race, color, class and place of birth.** **Any person whose rights are trespassed due to the discrimination mentioned in the preceding Paragraph can file a complaint to the competent authorities on the basis of the situations of the trespass, unless the matter is regulated by other laws otherwise.** **The competent authorities shall enact regulations that govern items, requirements for filing a complaint mentioned in the preceding Paragraph, complaint procedures and the composition of a review committee.** Again, if they said for example “no blacks” or “whites only” or “no Mexicans” then that would be considered discrimination in the eyes of Taiwan’s laws. Saying: \* Australia. - Canada. - Ireland. - New Zealand. - South Africa. - The United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) - the United States. > [@tempogain](#): > > Again, I’d have to see where that is spelled out. You are more than welcome to file a complaint and have them spell it out. I made a thread on how to complain [How to Make a Discrimination Complaint to the MOI - An easy guide](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/how-to-make-a-discrimination-complaint-to-the-moi-an-easy-guide/234023) [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/is-it-discrimination-to-only-hire-teachers-from-certain-native-speaking-countries/239527.md?page=2)