Is it discrimination to only hire teachers from "certain native speaking" countries?

[Gain]

@user86

Looks like they speak less English in South Africa than I imagined.

South Africa has like 50 official languages.

[the_bear]

South Africa has special status because Taiwan supported the racists all those years when no one else would.

[Gain]

@the_bear

South Africa has special status because Taiwan supported the racists all those years when no one else would.

While that is true, the point is many people’s perception of the country is stuck in the 70s-80s when South Africa had a higher GDP per capita than Taiwan.

That obviously is no longer the case and SA is now a complete trainwreck of a country that has amongst the lowest life expectancy and some of the worst crime rates in the world, but some older people still assume that SA is an advanced country. For example South African physician license is recognised in Taiwan, but Israel and Korea’s isn’t. That’s laughable.

[user86]

@comfy123

the advertisement is "discriminatory”

Well, there is something called bonafide discrimination which means lawful discrimination based on legitimate reasons.

If a school advertises teaching American English, for example, then they have a legitimate reason to hire only teachers who speak with American accents.

If a certain restaurant chain advertises beautiful waitresses with big boobs as part of their whole branding, then they have a legitimate reason to hire only beautiful waitresses with big boobs.

[Andrew]

@tempogain

I don’t overthink it personally, Taiwan’s Immigration Act prohibits discrimination based on national origin. Excluding people arbitrarily on the basis of their national origin, when they actually qualify on that basis, is discrimination.

You’d think so, but the MOI committee responsible for assessing discrimination doesn’t seem to think that discrimination is discrimination, so…

Some responses from them in these posts:

‘Online’ Bank’s xenophobic reasoning for denying "foreigners" the ability to open an account online

I went to the post office today to collect the MOI’s response to the discrimination complaint against Richart/Taishin/JKO that I filed in October. They upheld my complaint, saying that discrimination against foreigners residing here is completely unacceptable and that they’ve instructed Richart/Taishin/JKO to include foreigners in the current promotion and any future promotions by whatever means necessary. Only joking!! It was more of the same meaningless excuses. OCR’d, machine-translated, …

‘Online’ Bank’s xenophobic reasoning for denying "foreigners" the ability to open an account online

I went to the post office today to collect the response to my administrative appeal against the Ministry of the Interior regarding my Richart/Taishin/JKO discrimination complaint. It was just a single sheet of A4 paper with a black and white printout of a photograph of somebody’s middle finger. I’m only joking of course! It was something of a middle finger to foreigners living here, in my opinion and figuratively speaking, but in words instead. Six pages of them, justifying why it’s okay for bu…

Keep meaning to submit an FOI request to try and find out what the committee’s working definition of discrimination is, or what situations (if any) they’ve found to constitute discrimination.

[Charlie_Jack]

@nz

In . . . the US, it is perfectly legal to discriminate based on religion if the position requires teachers to be of that religion in order to perform the duties of the job or whatever.

The following is not meant as a criticism.

I was already pretty much in agreement with the above quote, but I felt uncomfortable trying to form a conclusion about it without giving it a proper looking-over. However, based on what I can see at the moment, I guess what you’re saying is more or less how things stand on that issue:

The religious education and formation of students is the very reason for the existence of most private religious schools, and therefore the selection and supervision of the teachers upon whom the schools rely to do this work lie at the core of their mission. Judicial review of the way in which religious schools discharge those responsibilities would undermine the independence of religious institutions in a way that the First Amendment* does not tolerate.

– US Supreme Court, Justice Alito (apparently writing for the Court), in Our Lady of Guadalupe School v. Morrissey-Berru (2020)

*

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[AvaiVayayana]

@nz

I’m wondering if the above employer could get away with this if they advertised themselves as a school that “only teaches xyz accents”?

Chinese-American wins kindergarten bias case - Taipei Times

[Charlie_Jack]

Great find, @AvaiVayayana !

[darkosx]

If you have the APRC are they still discriminating ? I just feel curious, I am not from english speaking country and in tech.

[ChewDawg]

Not from a trade perspective on GATS Mode 4 on Trade in Servies. It would have to be an international buxiban concerned with establishment of a commercial presence (e.g. individuals transferred from another part of the company) and highly skilled individuals (e.g. managers, executives or specialists). I don’t think Taiwan discriminates at this level on nationality, it’s much more for fresh-off-the-boat entertainers/kindy teachers to be the front face of Engrishy, no? Nobody cares other than the occasional Labour Office complaint.

[RickRooney]

I don’t see it as discrimination. Malaysians speak pidgin English. Its as simple as that.

If i were running an English teaching school i would narrow it down even further. No south Africans due to the accent. No Welsh, Scouse or Geordies either, for the same reason. I’m running a business here, not a freak show.

[Andrew]

@RickRooney

If i were running an English teaching school i would narrow it down even further. No south Africans due to the accent. No Welsh, Scouse or Geordies either, for the same reason. I’m running a business here, not a freak show.

For me, I think “have a neutral accent” would be justifiable as a necessary skill, but not “no South Africans/Welsh/Scousers/Geordies”.

[Dr_Milker]

@RickRooney

I’m running a business here, not a freak show.

Damn…

[Pinoco]

I recently watched a youtube video about accents. Apparently the Western States of the USA have less of an accent because there hasn’t been much time for the language to differentiate. The Eastern US has more accents and England is full of accents because of the long history. I’ll admit that sometimes it can be difficult to adjust to some accents but I don’t think it should disqualify you from a job. English grammar is a much more important skill to have.

[ChewDawg]

@Dr_Milker

Damn…

Don’t talk to me about sophistication–I’ve been to Leeds
HARRY ENFIELD- THE YORKSHIREMAN (youtube.com)

[ChewDawg]

@RickRooney

No south Africans due to the accent. No Welsh, Scouse or Geordies either, for the same reason. I’m running a business here, not a freak show.

What is your view on Canadians accents on lower end Trade in Services and buxiban teaching? Ken likes Tim Hortons.

[comfy123]

Apparently Aussie accents are the most attractive in the world, according to...

[the_bear]

@Pinoco

England is full of accents because of the long history

Many of the accents are due to the influence of other languages that visited England. French, German, Danish, Viking, all the Celtic languages. And now there’s a whole bunch of new accents. Everyone is speaking like Stormzy in London due to the influence of grime and trap.

[nz]

@Charlie_Jack

@nz

In . . . the US, it is perfectly legal to discriminate based on religion if the position requires teachers to be of that religion in order to perform the duties of the job or whatever.

The following is not meant as a criticism.

I was already pretty much in agreement with the above quote, but I felt uncomfortable trying to form a conclusion about it without giving it a proper looking-over. However, based on what I can see at the moment, I guess what you’re saying is more or less how things stand on that issue:

To be clear, I do not support the law. I’m just saying that that’s what the law says. The very existence of private schools (and now government-funded, tuition-free charter schools, some of which are very much “religious”) mean there is more discrimination/gaps in education in many US states than there was when Brown vs. Board of Ed. was passed

[Bobc9]

I think it has more to do with the specific accent people want to learn, and some kind of Anglo-Saxon one is more desirable as it is considered ‘proper’ English.

Here’s another way to look at it: Someone learning Spanish might want to learn Castilian (European) Spanish, which vastly different from the Latinamerican Spanish. So they’ll naturally not choose any non-European teacher - and vice versa.

Also, an open question: Maybe it makes sense to just state exactly what you want, versus pretending to be ‘politically correct’? What do you think?