Is it this hard in other countries?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

So far I have been relatively sheltered from the difficulties in setting up a residence in Taiwan that I have read other people have had. But we have hit our first brick wall in settling here for the long term and I am wondering if it is this hard in other countries (like the US, parts of Europe) to set up residence.

We got one cell phone before the restrictions and our other cell phone because we had a friend who had a friend who worked for the phone company. Our current residence has a sponsor. My measely Visa card had to have a co-signer. My partners mastercard was given to her from her school. The house we want to rent was only presented to us because a friend vouched for our character. Luckily we have 2 phone lines that we can hopefully transfer to our new house rental.

Our current diffculties stem from the inability to secure a short term 6 month loan for $100,000 so I can be more comfortable in buying a car and moving house in the same month. The car which I am largely paying cash for because I thought it might be impossible to get a loan for such a large amount. They won’t even see us because iam a foreigner. If they would look they would see that I have worked for 4 years for one Taiwans best organisations, make a reasonable salary and have always paid my bills on time. They would see that my partner makes a good salary from one the areas best international schools and has worked there for 4 years.

It is distressing that we seem not to be able to do anything in this country without having the help or pull of a local friend. I owe so many favours to friends that I feel I can ask no more.

And to think I was thinking of starting a company here. I don’t know how people do it.

Doesn’t Taiwan value the contribution of skilled people like myself make to the society here? We had hoped to stay on here and raise a family but eventually one needs to stop living like a tourist and start investing in some more firm roots. Is it possible?

2

I can’t speak from real personnal experience but I helped a friend to settle in France. Although everything was a little bit more difficult than for a native french (more paperwork), everything went quite fine. I didn’t need to sign anything with my blood for her. :sunglasses:

I haven’t been in Taiwan for a long time, so maybe there’s something I don’t understand, but I find amazingly difficult (compare to other countries) to get something as simple as a visa for a couple of months. Just go to Japan with your passport and you’re welcome for 90 days.

The fact that there is no diplomatic relationship between Taiwan and most of the other countries may explain that there is no treaty/agreement to make foreigner’s life easier (e.g. double taxes). However, Taiwan could take one-side actions to make life easier for foreigners. Especialy since they need foreigners for their industries and their language schools too.

Well, sorry, what I’m writing here is not helping you. I can only wish you good luck, since Hsinchu administrative even if they’re friendly don’t seem to be the most competent people around (I working there too).

I’d also be interested to read a good explanation on your problem from someone who is permanentely living here.

Anyway, maybe it’s just the same thing as chinese language: it’s ok after 20 years! :wink:

frederic

3

Getting a loan or a credit card in the US (without a prior US credit history) is amazingly difficult even if, for eg. my friend had a clean 10 year track record with his bank and visa card in Australia. You would think Visa International could pool records to make it easier for people on the move.

But getting a telephone line, electricity, water is simple. all u needed was an address.

Although a lot of things may require a SIN, getting the SIN if you are a legal resident, student etc was not that hard. After this paperwork hurdle, everything else seemed pretty easy to me.

My experience in Taiwan is similar to yours. Getting a credit card is out of the question unless I have a guarantor who is a local. although I asked my company to make an “inquiry” and the bank ‘compromised’ and said after 6 mos. of employment they will ok me.

I complained about setting up things that should have been easy. Someone told me that part of it stems from KMT martial law days when the government was fearful of outside infiltration esp. secret agents from China. haha. so getting anything as a foreigner was near impossible. not sure how credible this is. Funny you mention Japan. My impression was while it is much easier as a tourist, it is near impossible to immigrate. Xenophobia etc. I hear lots of Koreans and Chinese there who may be 2d gen or more still dont have some kind of permanent legal or citizenship status.

But yah, it really stupid of the government to be so restrictive. Even more amazing when so-called Communist China makes it super easy for Foreigners to open bank accounts, find housing (at least legally ie aside from whether private owners are willing to rent to u), get a work visa, etc.

Sometimes it amazes me that this country can flourish in an increasingly global world at all.

4

[quote=“jackburton”]Getting a loan or a credit card in the US (without a prior US credit history) is amazingly difficult even if, for eg. my friend had a clean 10 year track record with his bank and visa card in Australia. You would think Visa International could pool records to make it easier for people on the move.

But getting a telephone line, electricity, water is simple. all u needed was an address.

Although a lot of things may require a SIN, getting the SIN if you are a legal resident, student etc was not that hard. After this paperwork hurdle, everything else seemed pretty easy to me.

My experience in Taiwan is similar to yours. Getting a credit card is out of the question unless I have a guarantor who is a local. although I asked my company to make an “inquiry” and the bank ‘compromised’ and said after 6 mos. of employment they will ok me.

I complained about setting up things that should have been easy. Someone told me that part of it stems from KMT martial law days when the government was fearful of outside infiltration esp. secret agents from China. haha. so getting anything as a foreigner was near impossible. not sure how credible this is. Funny you mention Japan. My impression was while it is much easier as a tourist, it is near impossible to immigrate. Xenophobia etc. I hear lots of Koreans and Chinese there who may be 2d gen or more still dont have some kind of permanent legal or citizenship status.

But yah, it really stupid of the government to be so restrictive. Even more amazing when so-called Communist China makes it super easy for Foreigners to open bank accounts, find housing (at least legally ie aside from whether private owners are willing to rent to u), get a work visa, etc.

Sometimes it amazes me that this country can flourish in an increasingly global world at all.[/quote]

In the US, getting Bank accounts/credit cards, cell phones/land lines, driver’s license, etc are really easy. But, it is actually extremely difficult to establish permanent residency. I think it is almost impossible to settle in the US unless you are born there, have relatives/parents that are citizens, or if you have a special technical skill that can get you a work visa. So it’s not just taiwan, I think it’s difficult in every advanced country in the world (I heard canada is pretty easy tho).

China is a different story. The reason that they allow foreigners to open bank accounts easily etc is because they want their money. They want to increase the flow of foreign capital/currency into China and they want to control it. Another way to look at this situation is to realize that local Chinese people on the mainland can’t get credit cards. It is also very hard for them to wire money to overseas accounts. These methods are to prevent Chinese capital from flowing out of the country. So on the surface you might think China is financially liberal, but that’s because they have other motives. The locals don’t have any financial freedom at all.

5

This has been discussed extensively in other threads. If you have an ARC, you can get a credit card (Mastercard) at Taiwan Cooperative bank without a Taiwanese signing for you. Ask for a Combo Card when you open your account. Very little English was spoken at the branch I went to (on Guanqian Rd.) near the train station in Taipei.

Yes you are correct that it is relatively difficult to function as an “independent” foreigner in Taiwan though it is getting easier. The reason is that the Taiwanese are very ambivalent about the idea of foreigners living here permanently. While you and I may think the Taiwanese need foreigners and their skills, the Taiwanese tend to feel otherwise.

6

Why is this different from Taiwan? I think they like my euros too here!! :smiley:
You’re right anyway about the real motivation of the PRC. I don’t think they fool anyone.

I feel Feiren a bit exasperated when mentionning that this has been widely discussed in other threads. You have to remember that some people are new-comers (just like me). So be kind with us! And thanks for explaining (again) about the ARC and stuff.

Frederic

7

I don’t know if this helps but my bank, First Commercial Bank, here in Hsinchu gave me an application last year and told me that all I had to due was present my last four consecutive pay slips and a letter from my company stating that I have worked for them for a year and have at least six months left on my contract and I wouldn’t need a co-signer.

I don’t know if this is because I work for the government or it is a new policy; plus our overtime checks are deposited instantly i.e., no three day waiting period.

Unfortunately I never applied so I have no idea if this is true or not.

Any road, the branch I go to is near the Hsinchu City main police station.

Hope you are successful.

8

well just to clarify my post…

US: credit cards are not easy for foreigners unless you have a US credit history. of course there are many companies out there who want to get you a credit card to spend. like i said, as long as you have a SIN, it’s easy to get things after that.

China: yes, it’s quite obvious their motives are not for our personal benefit. but this policy works to everyone’s favor, so I’m not complaining.

Taiwan: personally I have no problem when it came to banking at the bank my company uses. but i wanted an airmiles card for china airlines which offered co-branded cards with several banks. I chose ABN-AMRO because I assumed (incorrectly) because it is a foreign affiliate I might have an easier time.

9

Going back tot he original problem. As some people have pointed out, gettign a credit card for a foreigner here is possible (although dificult).

But you want a loan. I think this is simply impossible. You also can’t get credit when buying cars, appliances etc. The official reason is thatif you dont have household registration there’s no way of chasing you if you default. So the root of the problem is that it’s impossible for foreginers to get household registration.

There may be one way to get a loan. If it is true that the one bank that someone mentioned will give foreigners credit cards, then they may also give the new ‘cash cards’. I don’t know exactly how these work, but they’re something like ‘cash advance’ credit cards. I think that’s you best bet for trying to borrow some money.

Brian

10

Second solution,

I know a guy who owns a pachinko parlor. You can borrow money from him but the rate is a bit high and he will come after your familly or break your legs if you’re late.

I’ve passed on that one.
:wink:

Frederic

11

This thread is relevant. :sunglasses:

12

I think you’re probably right about this. But, foreigners required by law to register their place of residence, so in theory there is no difference between foreigners and Taiwanese. And, if you’ve ever tried to track someone down who owes money based on household registration you’ll know that this is not as simple as it sounds.

I think that the reality is that there is no compelling business reason for businesses to extend credit to a very small market segment with significant servicing costs due to the language barrier etc.

A friend of mine told me that he was assured by his local bank that he could get a housing loan. I haven’t checked this out myself.

13

It wasn’t my intention to rehash threads on credit cards, banks, and cell phones. I have read most of those. At the moment that I created the post I was shook from my slumber of what I thought was a normal life. I have lived here so long I had forgotten that I am only a visitor.

Being a bit naive and inexperienced in living life as an expat I was curious if every country made it so difficult to live as a foreigner in their country. As a Canadian I don’t remember these issues for foreign professionals in my home country. But what do I know. I see Maoman, that the discussion you started in 2001 touches on this issue, it’s at least interesting to note that since then, little has changed for the better.

My wife and I are just normal middle class people who make an interesting and arguably valuable contribution to the organizations we participate in. I enjoy living here for many small reasons. Obviously at some point that will come to an end not because we would want to leave but because some other country will not treat us with such contempt. Taiwan won’t miss us but I would think it could do better as a whole if it encouraged foreign professionals to stay rather than encouraged them to leave.

Oh and thank you for the pointers to the banks. I’ll certainly check them out. The loan was really a small issue that has already been resolved. My wife’s company will loan it to her.

14

The minute you tell any group in the United States “You can’t hvae a cell phone without a guarantor”, assuming that group has the same or greater economic power and an equal credit rating to US citizens, the first ones to take to the streets and protest would be the Americans, not the group affected, in most cases. That’s the difference.

Try explaining these things to Taiwanese, and the usual response is first disbelief, then “Oh, well, that’s just the way it is.” I spoke to a group of college students recently and one expressed the idea that “Well, you have a lot of advantages here, like in earning money, so you should just accept things like that.” Great to make money, but it’s a bit depressing when you’re not allowed to spend it (in a certain sense).