Is marriage a "right"?


#83

Nonsense. People get married everywhere and that’s where the idea has been derived from. Christians love to assert that Christianity has been responsible for anything good or anything they feel like owning in the West.


#84

The thing is that there are actually two questions.

  1. how do they call that union?
  2. what rights do they acquire?

Because I’m not 100% sure but probably there are already unions similar to marriage that granted gay people rights similar to those for married couples. At least in my country of origin it was like that.


#85

And in all those societies, did they use the same term for W+M than for M+M or W+W unions?


#86

Ok that is twice now, I have said on previous occasions, I don’t like labels being assigned to me. The name is Mick, if you feel the need to address me use that, lest I think of some choice words to describe you, which will not be a pleasing sight to the moderator of this forum.

We are talking about consistency under the law.


#87

Who cares? Now it’s a question of what legal rights the government is offering to people.


#88

We care because that’s what we were discussing, remember?


#89

Don’t care much about moderators. Nowadays anybody can carry a star :smiley:


#90

Nope.


#91

I punch you.


#92

Ouch. I’m serious though. It doesn’t matter what it’s always referred to. What matters is the legal question in the present.


#93

Who says the institution of marriage by the state is good, I didn’t. If anything I’ve kinda said the opposite.

It’s not about who originally invented something like it. We don’t credit the Chinese for inventing pasta. The concept is exactly the same but we have a clear definition of noodles and pasta.

We don’t credit the Mayans for inventing basketball; they literally have the same exact same game.

For the record, I think the state should afford the same thing as marriage for SSM. Because it’s just a piece of legal document and has no authority imo.


#94

OK, sure, that’s important. I’m just trying to analyze the problem, the social conflict. I was telling you guys that one of the obstacles for SSM (or the rights implied, which is what you care about) is precisely the name, the term. I was said “no, that’s not the point” and then @Andrew0409 just made the objection I was talking about.

The problem with keeping things simple is that some other people will simplify things in a different way than you, and the conversation will be impossible, there will be two conversations, not one.


#95

It’s in the “something they want to own” category.

That’s fine. I don’t think anyone needs to give it religious standing, accept it in their church, etc.


#96

I get it, and I understand why some people don’t like it. But the government should be fair. Mick has summarized it perfectly above I think.


#97

But that’s another thing. You think nobody is asking for that, but there are many gay people complaining about the Catholic Church not marrying people of the same sex. And many of these angry, upset people are… not catholic or even atheist. So…


#98

I always joke that I wonder if same sex couples will feel the same after years of marriage under a legal binding contract lol. It’s a different ball game when you can’t just walk away cleanly. Wait till they start lining up in court fighting over divorces.


#99

The gay couple sueing the Christian baker thing pissed me off.


#100

That was… well, arguable. I’m not sure what side to take on that issue, and I don’t even remember the details so I can’t say much. What I don’t like is people forcing you to like them, and if you don’t want to like them or work with them or whatever, they will boycott your business and sue you…

Well…


#101

The thing is they purposely found a religious person to make a point. They didn’t give a shit about the cake from what I read.


#102

I believe that pissed off a lot of people in the gay community too.

Not sure how up to date you are on the legal arguments of the cake thing. Basically it comes down to, if a person walks into the store and wants to buy an off the shelf product, you don’t have the right to discriminate. If someone wants a custom design, cake, or picture, or some other product which can fall under creative works. You can’t force them to make it.