Its also important to realize that Taiwan is not the United States. Just because it is wrong to be a racist in the US, does not mean it is wrong here. This is their culture, you will be their guest, and if you don’t like it, you can leave. Schools should discriminate and hire the best foreign staff that will generate the most $$$ for their company. The majority of foreigner instructors that work in Taiwan are employed at private schools (ie. private businesses). The purpose of a Taiwanese business is to make money not promote social change.
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I find your remarks highly offensive. Racism is wrong everywhere. You seem to think that capitalistic greed makes racism right. What a VILE attitude! You should be ashamed of yourself.
[quote=“five1000yearsofpoo”] Just because it is wrong to be a racist in the US, does not mean it is wrong here. This is their culture, you will be their guest, and if you don’t like it, you can leave. Schools should discriminate in the hiring of foreign staff. The majority of foreigner instructors that work in Taiwan are employed at private schools (ie. private businesses). The purpose of a business is to make money not promote social change.[/quote] 
:loco: So when the delivery truck gives you the brush by, and you’re trying to peel your mangled body off of the pavement before the driver backs up to finish you off, I’m going to stand aside and leave you there, 'cause, hey, just because it’s wrong at home don’t make it so here, and if you don’t like it… well, you could have left if it weren’t for those dual rear wheels passing over your chest. No great loss… there’s more where you came from.
[quote=“five1000yearsofpoo”]Its also important to realize that Taiwan is not the United States. Just because it is wrong to be a racist in the US, does not mean it is wrong here. This is their culture, you will be their guest, and if you don’t like it, you can leave. Schools should discriminate and hire the best foreign staff that will generate the most $$$ for their company. The majority of foreigner instructors that work in Taiwan are employed at private schools (ie. private businesses). The purpose of a Taiwanese business is to make money not promote social change.[/quote] My troll detector just went ballistic. Should I turn it off and back on again? Mods feel free to move my post to the technology forum.
Yeah, time for that wonderful ignore button. All together now!
I find it interesting how easy it is for foreign guests to belittle and judge their Taiwanese hosts when their value system is not the same as their own.
More interesting is that some people’s notions of ‘right and wrong’ are so thin as to encompass only ‘legal and illegal’; so thin are their notions of humanity that they reduce persons to bare-bones economic automatons… as though the “schools” had agency, rather than the persons running them… persons for whom discrimination is a problematic part of daily given the mainlander/ Taiwanese/ native/ foreigner guest worker dynamics of Taiwanese society.
Most foreign guest didn’t check their identities at the gate: we are the same people we were before arriving to teach, consult, administer, build, clean, ect… We carry with us knowledge of various means to address social ills the afflict Taiwanese society… knowledge inherited, or hard-won by often bitter experience back home. To stand aside and do nothing on the flimsy excuse that “their value system is not the same” shows the highest disregard for our hosts, for it condemns them to repeat needlessly our own historical errs. If, in Taiwan, you were to discover a potential solution to a grave social ill in your homeland, would you park that knowledge at the airport when you left? Get real. Cultures survive because the people who live them feed off of and inform one another.
The cheap ‘hands-off’ approach you advocate simply masks a tremendous disregard of others. Truly shameful.
Ah, the “Asian values” argument. I think AC_Dropout has returned.
I find it ridiculous to believe that simply because cultural values are different that they should be viewed as equal.
Yeah, time for that wonderful ignore button. All together now![/quote]
:bravo: Wow! How mature, democratic, open-minded.
Thank god we’re all restricted to just passive-aggression here (ie sarcasm. this post included), otherwise five1000yearsofpoo
might find himself dangling off a tree with a rope around his neck.
Disqualifying some really good arguments there with a judgmental and condescending remark like that… such a shame.
To both, Jaboney and Dragonbones:
Whether five1000yearsofpoo is just being a jerk or is looking to stir up some real interesting discussion on passing judgment between cultures, that’s debatable, but what I find infinitely more interesting is the way he was jumped on with the “Shame on you” cry. Is that because the subject is racism? Is this how one is supposed to, expected to, required to react on the subject if one is to be allowed to stay on, stay in, not be IGNORE-buttoned? Is one not allowed to discuss and argue racism here?
[quote=“tash”]Is one not allowed to discuss and argue racism here?[/quote] I’m not Dragonbones or Jaboney. Advocation of racism is not arguing or discussing. I’m fairly sure it’s against the rules of the message board. I could be wrong though. This whole thread argues and discusses racism and possibilities of racism for those with a dark skin complexion in Taiwan. And not all of us are from the US. Which may a play a part in the issue I personally have with that post we’re referring to. My off-topic sensor is going off now. I’m leaving to switch it off.
I’d like five1000 to try rephrasing is post. Can you explain your views and why? I am actually interested.
What utter rubbish. Racism is wrong everywhere.
Also the attitude that if there’s something about Taiwan you don’t like, you should leave is stupid beyond belief. This is my home. Of course there’s things I don’t like about it. I will hope and try to get some of those things changed out of my love of this country. If everyone who didn’t liek somethign about Taiwan left, there’d be noone here anymore.
Brian
Yeah, time for that wonderful ignore button. All together now![/quote]
:bravo: Wow! How mature, democratic, open-minded.
[/quote]
Ignoring poo-headed posters is somehow undemocratic? Democratic systems require that we listen to every piece of crap that comes along? Wanna explain that logic? 
Arguing against defenses of racism is somehow not open-minded? Racism and open-mindedness are the only opposites here – did you “take the wrong medicine” today? :loco: Racism is an ugly enough crime that anyone advocating it in the guise of ‘different cultural values’ deserves to get poo’d on, or at the very least, ignored. And I have a right to ignore anyone I feel is a waste of carbon. You have the same right, so feel free to use it.
Disqualifying some really good arguments there with a judgmental and condescending remark like that… such a shame.[/quote]
I didn’t see any good arguments. All I saw was poo, in a manner resembling a reincarnation of a certain banned poster.
Same here. Did this 5000years of poo character (so transparent as to his previous identities – are these people REALLY so stupid?) say anything other than “Its OK for Chinese people to be racists because its their culture.”
I won’t ignore him though. I’ll just sit back, jeer at his inanities and wait until admin twigs to his previously banned IDs and wipes him off their shoe like a wet sloppy shite.
[quote=“Dragonbones”]
Ignoring poo-headed posters is somehow undemocratic? Democratic systems require that we listen to every piece of crap that comes along? Wanna explain that logic? 
[/quote]
The easiest thing in the world is to call for a mass protest when you don’t like something, as opposed to discrediting the opponent by means of presenting a mature argument. Why call for people to back you up? Can’t you argue the case yourself?
[quote=“Dragonbones”][quote=“Jaboney”] Truly shameful.[/quote]’
[quote=“tash”]
Disqualifying some really good arguments there with a judgmental and condescending remark like that… such a shame.[/quote]
I didn’t see any good arguments. All I saw was poo, in a manner resembling a reincarnation of a certain banned poster.[/quote]
I meant Jaboney had a great argument going on and then he finished it off with “Truly shameful”.
Ok Tash, I’ll respond to you decently, you give me a fair hearing and let me know, honestly, what you really think. Deal? Cool. Now you’ll have to forgive me if this comes off sounding pedantic but since we not about to sit down for a real conversation over brews my options for presenting this are somewhat limited.
I’ll start by assuming that when you wrote “disqualifying some really good arguments there” you were actually referring to my posting, since the poo-ster didn’t offer much in the way of argument. Maybe you didn’t mean me, but it flatters me to think so and casts your submission in a better light, so let’s pretend that you feel I spoiled an otherwise fair argument with “a judgmental and condescending remark like that.”
Judgmental. Is judgment automatically and necessarily bad? Should I not form “an opinion after consideration or deliberation?” Is “the mental ability to perceive and distinguish relationships; discernment” a character fault? Obviously not. But you might believe that’s true. If so, I’ve putting out a few relevant thoughts that you might want to check out, which are now filed under Flounder (Message not messenger). I’ll not repeat that here. Probably you just mean that I’m “judgmental” in the knee-jerk, pre-formed opinion, didn’t bother to give a fair hearing sort of way. Not so. I’m familiar with what lies behind his idea. Poo’s comment is a second-hand, bastardized form of Friedmanite economic theory, popular among corporate-governance apologists seeking to “externalize” costs; a.k.a. dodging-responsibility. " “The Corporation” does a pretty decent center-left account of this, and good old Milton Friedman’s in it, but Michael Walker of the Fraser Institute is the real hatchet man. Therefore, while exercising judgment, I refute the derogatory epithet. Fair enough?
Shame. (I’ll come back to condescension.)
- a. A painful emotion caused by a strong sense of guilt, embarrassment, unworthiness, or disgrace.
b. Capacity for such a feeling. - One that brings dishonor, disgrace, or condemnation.
- A condition of disgrace or dishonor; ignominy.
- A great disappointment.
Poo’s posting causes, in myself and obviously others, shame (1a) due to guilt-by-association. We’d like to think better of those with whom we share a cultural background and present circumstances, and certainly would not like have such a character be taken as representative of us in the eyes of our hosts. In that sense, Poo’s posting is also a shame (4), and causes Poo to be seen in a shameful (3) light. Finally, Poo becomes a shame (2).
I’m guessing/ hoping you found the conclusion to my remarks a shame (4) because they were condescending, though following a well-reasoned argument. Correct?
Whether or not it was condescending (patronizingly superior behavior or attitude) depends on whether or not you found Poo’s argument shameful. I don’t see how it could be seen otherwise, unless one is utterly shameless. There is a place for a debate about racism in Taiwanese society, and for appropriate “cultural adjustments” when living abroad. But Poo went far beyond that by asserting that racism was to be evaluated on a cultural-specific basis… that it may be alright in specific circumstances, and that’s abhorent. Universal Human Rights are well recognized and enshrined in law, and even if they weren’t commonsense decency tells you all you need to know about how acceptable it is.
Poo’s argument is indecent, shameful, and unworthy of serious consideration; it is debasing; it lowers one who accepts it. To address anyone in such a condition it is necessary to speak “down” to them. This is not condescending, however, as you needn’t artificially inflate your own position in the process. If you accept that, then you needn’t find my finally remark disrespectful, but only accurate. And if accuarate, my judgment was fair.
Somethings simply are shameful and unworthy of us. Poo’s argument ranks among them.
Fair enough?
Read this after posting… glad to hear it. Do want to hear your honest thoughts in reply.
J.
But it’s good chum.
Look at all the fish.
We’ll all see what happens if or when 5000yearsofpoo returns…
“We” are watching.
Your friendly neighborhood Living in Taiwan mod…
By the way, Jaboney is up a couple of sets…
Superb post, Jaboney! You have by far outdone the rest of us in this thread! Jiayou!