Is renouncing my Taiwanese nationality an option?

Legal Military Conscription
1

Hi

I’ve just registered on this forum, but have been on here reading for several months.

I am an ABC. Born and raised in Australia. My father is Taiwanese. He was born in Taiwan. He became an Australian citizen before i was born (by marrying my Australian mother). I would imagine he is now considered a dual citizen.

I have visited Taiwan only once for about a month when i was about 10 years old. My father arranged a Taiwanese passport for me for that visit. The passport has now expired.

I am now 26, and have grand plans to move to Taiwan to work for an extended period of time. The plan is to teach English, so I will like the ability to stay in Taiwan for at least a year.

From reading these forums, I have figured out that I am at risk of being conscripted to military service if i stay beyond 183 days in any given year because (a) I am considered a dual-national due to my father’s dual citizenship (article 1 of the Nationality Act) and (b) i was born after 1984 (article 4 of the Conscription Regulations for Naturalized Aliens & Returning
Overseas Chinese).

I was thinking one option would be to renounce my Taiwan nationality, and then enter Taiwan on a visa (like any other ‘Westerner’). I’ve read some people’s posts on here that say you can not renounce your nationality until you reach the age of 36. However, article 11 of the Nationality Act says:

[quote][i]With the permission of the MOI, a national of the ROC may lose his/her nationality of the ROC under any of the following conditions:

  1. His/her natural father is a foreign national, and he/she is acknowledged the parentage by his/her natural father.
  2. His/her father can’t be ascertained or he/she is not acknowledged the parentage by his/her natural father, and his/her mother is an alien.
  3. He/she is the spouse of a foreign national.
  4. He/she is the adopted child of a foreign national.
  5. He/she is 20 years old and has the capacity to act according to the laws of the ROC and acquires the nationality of another country voluntarily.
    Minor children of a person who lost the nationality of the ROC according to the preceding Paragraph shall concurrently lose the nationality of the ROC with the permission of the MOI.
    [/i][/quote]

Article 12 goes on to say:

[quote][i]For a person who applies to lose his/her nationality according to the preceding Paragraph, under any of the following conditions, the MOI shall not permit the loss of nationality:

  1. A male from January 1 of the next year after he was 15 years old, who is not exempted from military service and has not fulfilled his military service. But nationals, who reside overseas and were born overseas, and have no household registration in the ROC or moved overseas before December 31 of the year they were 15 years old, shall be excluded.
  2. He/she is in active military service.
  3. He/she now holds a government official of the ROC.[/i][/quote]

So, the way i read it, I satisfy paragraph 1 of Article 11 as my dad is a ‘foreign national’ as he is an Australian citizen. I am also carved out from the exception in paragraph 1 of Article 12 as I was born in Australia.

Am I missing something here? Because it’s starting to look like i can renounce my Taiwanese nationality as a way to avoid conscription requirement, and work in Taiwan for an extended period on a working visa. Ironic that the thing that is potentially preventing me from working in Taiwan for an extended period is my deemed Taiwanese dual national status.

Interested to hear thoughts or suggestions.

2

Sorry, further to my original post, I also wanted to point out that if i obtained a work visa, I would enter and leave with my Australian passport in any event.

A lot of people say that this doesn’t matter, I assume as article 5 of the Conscription Regulations for Naturalized Aliens & Returning Overseas Chinese states:

I’m not sure I am categorised as an ‘Overseas Chinese’ given I don’t/won’t have a valid Taiwanese passport with that stamp. However, wouldn’t this all mean nothing anyway if i renounced my Taiwanese nationality?

3

Your “grand plan” is to teach English? If you don’t look white, or if you have a Chinese last name, then you can pretty much forget about it.
It’s better to keep your Taiwanese citizenship so you can have a backup plan for other jobs in case this English teaching thing doesn’t pan out for you.
Don’t be scared of military conscription. What’s the worst that could happen? You spend two years of your life, doing almost next to nothing. Maybe you’ll fill up that time working out. Maybe you’ll get to play with some guns and grenades. Maybe you’ll learn how to kill people. Whatever. As long as China doesn’t invade then you’ve got nothing to worry about really. I know guys who went in weak as shit. And then after returning on a break, their arms are hard as stone. Of course, maybe that’s more the exception than the rule, but who knows. Military conscription can give you a lot of free time to think about what you really want to pursue in life. Instead of just rushing in naively expecting that your “grand plans” are going to work out the way you expect. Life has a way of throwing curve balls at you when you were expecting a fast ball.

4

Having dual nationality is nearly always a Good Thing. It would be daft to give it up.

I think military service is only 14 months now. And as Gryphon said, the best way to approach such things is as free training. I get the impression the Taiwanese version is a bit poor compared to other countries, and you’ll spend a lot of time doing pointless shit. On the other hand, you also learn some useful things, more so if you show some initiative and willingness to participate. You get out what you put in.

5

Thanks for the response guys. Haha. Definitely exaggerated when I used the words ‘grand plan’. It’s the plan. I understand all the stuff about not being white etc, but would like to give it a go. Actually the other ‘plan’ is to study mandarin at the same time.

That aside, going to the military definitely isn’t part of the ‘grand plan’. I’m not planning to be the country permanently (say 2 years max), my mandarin is poor, and I’m also going with my girlfriend. I’m pretty sure her grand plan is not wait around for a year. I also don’t see why I would serve for a country I don’t consider my own.

Anyway, my post isn’t aimed at discussing the merits of military service, or whether it’s enjoyable or not. I was more seeking views regarding my reading of the conscription laws. Is what I suggest a viable option, will it achieve what I need? Or is renouncing my nationality not even required to do what I’m proposing?

6

Giving it up is definitely an option. I have other friends who grew up aboard who gave up their nationality to avoid military conscription while working in Taiwan. Although you would then have to apply for a work visa and someone to sponsor you. Frankly, it’s a hassle either way.

Serving in the Taiwanese military isn’t all fun and games, especially if you are different (which means you can’t speak Mandarin at a native level). I mean it can turn out to be an ok experience, but your “brothers” can also take turns to hit you in your nut sack for kicks, you would have no where to report the abuse, and when you run, they will make fun of you on the news. It’s on based on luck and some of it has to do with your personality. A major quality to survive in the Taiwanese military is to let injustice slide off you. Again, a lot of it has to do with luck.

If you have a masters or above, you can also apply for special service. If you have an engineering degree, you can go work for a company for 3 years and get out of service that way. There’s a special program for students abroad:
hirecruit.nat.gov.tw/TopMenu.do? … aq&ssid=04

7

[quote=“finley”]Having dual nationality is nearly always a Good Thing. It would be daft to give it up.

I think military service is only 14 months now. And as Gryphon said, the best way to approach such things is as free training. I get the impression the Taiwanese version is a bit poor compared to other countries, and you’ll spend a lot of time doing pointless shit. On the other hand, you also learn some useful things, more so if you show some initiative and willingness to participate. You get out what you put in.[/quote]

Actually I think its dropped down to 10 months now. Don’t hold me to that though. My cousin is about to do his service soon and I think he said it was only 10 months.

8

[quote=“Gryphon”]Your “grand plan” is to teach English? If you don’t look white, or if you have a Chinese last name, then you can pretty much forget about it.
[/quote]

Sadly, this is very much true. I am an ABT, born and raised in the States, and I moved back a few years ago thinking it would be a piece of cake for me to land a gig teaching little kids their ABC’s and making weird animal sounds to appease the parents. But Gryphon is right, schools are only hiring white faces, or “non-asian” foreigners. It sucks, but it is what it is and its understandable. With the amount of money the parents are paying these cram schools, they will be pissed off knowing they could be paying half the amount taking their kids to a regular Taiwanese school if they see their kids being taught by a “fellow Taiwanese”.

Yes, we know your English is probably better than the heavy accented European you’re competing against, but the bottom line is you LOOK Taiwanese. You have black hair. I’m not saying its impossible, but its going to be pretty damn hard. Good luck

9

[quote=“Leftywang81”][quote=“finley”]Having dual nationality is nearly always a Good Thing. It would be daft to give it up.

I think military service is only 14 months now. And as Gryphon said, the best way to approach such things is as free training. I get the impression the Taiwanese version is a bit poor compared to other countries, and you’ll spend a lot of time doing pointless shit. On the other hand, you also learn some useful things, more so if you show some initiative and willingness to participate. You get out what you put in.[/quote]

Actually I think its dropped down to 10 months now. Don’t hold me to that though. My cousin is about to do his service soon and I think he said it was only 10 months.[/quote]

Actually it’s a 12 months. 2 months are deducted for those who have been through Taiwan’s education system that includes military courses as part of their education. I had 2 months deducted for 成功嶺 and 軍訓 from university, otherwise I would have done the whole (then) 18 months.

10

Maybe if you dye your hair and eyebrows dusty blond and wear blue contact lenses and change your last name and undergo some plastic surgery, you might be able to get an English teaching job in Taipei cram schools. I heard of a Brazilian guy who liked South Korea so much he did stuff to himself to make himself look Korean.
huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/0 … 47600.html

11

I am in a situation similar to OP. I am a 30-year-old male ABT (who lived mostly in the US) trying to work in Taiwan but hoping to avoid military service.

First, know that anyone with parents (dunno if it’s one or both) with ROC citizenship (ROC citizens are more accurately called Nationals with Household Registration) are automatically ROC Nationals. OP’s problem was that his father gave him Household Registration (and a subsequent ROC ID number and ROC passport) and, thus, OP is now a National with Household Registration (NWHR). NWHR’s are under conscription laws. Nationals without Household Registration (NWOHR) are NOT under conscription laws (because they are not in the system yet; they are invisible). Why did your father give you Household Registration? What benefit did you get?? Don’t worry, I blame my parents for doing this to me too.

Luckily, there’s another law that creates an exception for those NWHR living overseas – you can avoid serving if you apply or an Overseas Chinese Identification (if you meet a list requirements, which OP does). This allows you to avoid conscription if you do not stay in Taiwan for more than 183 days out of one year (there’s a less stringent requirement those born in 1984 or earlier).

However, this does not solve the “working in Taiwan” situation, as you obviously must stay more than 183 days. In short, to avoid military service, you have to renounce your “ROC nationality.” Only Overseas Chinese can renounce nationality at ages 19-36 (Nationals without official Overseas Identification cannot do this as then too many ppl would do it to avoid conscription). Therefore, to renounce your ROC nationality, you must first apply for an Overseas Identification, along with bringing 8-10 other documents to an overseas mission (aka Taiwanese embassy). I’m doing this now. Wish me luck in the process.

Some final advice to parents who are ROC citizens/NWHRs and are living in a country other than Taiwan:

  • please, do not apply Household Registration for your boy unless you absolutely need to. At ages 19-36, your son can still work/live in Taiwan with a standard ARC. After age 36, your son can still apply for Household Registration and then reap the benefits of a ROC citizen without having to serve in the military (although, ethically, I am somewhat against this).
12

This is excellent advice and I do not see why you should have any doubts for ethical (or other) reasons. The entire conscription system is rigged to begin with. 50% of the able-bodied population has a vagina and is exempted to begin with. And yes, they are able-bodied as they can volunteer for military service. Another 20% of males (or 10% of the total population) are not taken for physical and mental health reasons. Anybody doing their service without fighting it is a total idiot wasting their time in a system that gives a free ride to 60%+ of the population.

13

Well, mandatory conscription is essential for Taiwanese independence. Taiwan needs a semblance of a military that can do “some damage” (a deterrence) to avoid China from completely declaring that they own us, so I support mandatory conscription.

The system is not perfect. I assume we don’t need 100% conscription to have an effective deterrence. If girls are conscripted, along with 100% males, then we are probably wasting huge potential work-hours that can contribute to the GDP (and also the cost of just training/feed/housing everyone). So, to avoid 100% conscription, perhaps girls are exempted, along with unfit males (although 20% seems bogus). I also think medical/phd students should be exempted, as they can contribute more to society by focusing on their studies. I understand this is not perfect, as who has the right to decide these things?

Obviously, I do not believe in military conscription for foreigners in Taiwan. My belief is I am a foreigner (I just happen to have ROC parents who though it was a good idea to give me Household Registration when I was 8 months old during a visit to Taiwan). Thus, I am not hesitating to renounce my ROC nationality.

14

SMH at this thread. If Israelis had the same attitude to national defence as Taiwanese people do they’d be speaking Arabic.

15

Interesting. In any other context that would be called sexist and condemned. It becomes more and more clear that growing up Taiwanese and male, one should escape from a system that allows for a female president and high female enrollment in top national universities, yet presses men into the army. You see, this is a year of lifetime nobody can return to you - and it’s not like people did not die during their military service.