Is the Blacklist real?


#181

[quote=“BigJohn”]I’m sure this has been said before, but probably all an employer would have to do is to report to the police that it seemed you were sexually interested in children. He saw a few things that made him highly suspicious, but unfortunately has no real proof.

That would most likely do it, and you would have a very hard time teaching again.[/quote]

I call BS on this. The person making such false claims would be opn to being sued for defamation. If this was the case that any teacher could be removed this way their would be a lot of screaming going on in these forums. I have not read in the teaching English forum any mention that any teacher was removed on heresay allegation of sexual interest in children. NOthing on tealiet also about anything like this going on.


#182

[quote=“jerry spence”][quote=“BigJohn”]I’m sure this has been said before, but probably all an employer would have to do is to report to the police that it seemed you were sexually interested in children. He saw a few things that made him highly suspicious, but unfortunately has no real proof.

That would most likely do it, and you would have a very hard time teaching again.[/quote]

I call BS on this. The person making such false claims would be opn to being sued for defamation. If this was the case that any teacher could be removed this way their would be a lot of screaming going on in these forums. I have not read in the teaching English forum any mention that any teacher was removed on heresay allegation of sexual interest in children. NOthing on tealiet also about anything like this going on.[/quote]

I think you misunderstood. The owner doesn’t say this to your face or in open court. He says it privately to the NIA or the FAP once you no longer work for him. They can’t do anything because the owner does not make a criminal complaint. But they can make sure you never have another teaching job. This is the scenario.


#183

[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“jerry spence”][quote=“BigJohn”]I’m sure this has been said before, but probably all an employer would have to do is to report to the police that it seemed you were sexually interested in children. He saw a few things that made him highly suspicious, but unfortunately has no real proof.

That would most likely do it, and you would have a very hard time teaching again.[/quote]

I call BS on this. The person making such false claims would be opn to being sued for defamation. If this was the case that any teacher could be removed this way their would be a lot of screaming going on in these forums. I have not read in the teaching English forum any mention that any teacher was removed on heresay allegation of sexual interest in children. NOthing on tealiet also about anything like this going on.[/quote]

I think you misunderstood. The owner doesn’t say this to your face or in open court. He says it privately to the NIA or the FAP once you no longer work for him. They can’t do anything because the owner does not make a criminal complaint. But they can make sure you never have another teaching job. This is the scenario.[/quote]
And how does the NIA or FAP make sure you won’t get hired?
If yo got hired will they call the employer and tell them to fire you or what?

Something like this would sooner or later become public and the people affected by this would have ground for huge compensations.


#184

[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“jerry spence”][quote=“BigJohn”]I’m sure this has been said before, but probably all an employer would have to do is to report to the police that it seemed you were sexually interested in children. He saw a few things that made him highly suspicious, but unfortunately has no real proof.

That would most likely do it, and you would have a very hard time teaching again.[/quote]

I call BS on this. The person making such false claims would be opn to being sued for defamation. If this was the case that any teacher could be removed this way their would be a lot of screaming going on in these forums. I have not read in the teaching English forum any mention that any teacher was removed on heresay allegation of sexual interest in children. NOthing on tealiet also about anything like this going on.[/quote]

I think you misunderstood. The owner doesn’t say this to your face or in open court. He says it privately to the NIA or the FAP once you no longer work for him. They can’t do anything because the owner does not make a criminal complaint. But they can make sure you never have another teaching job. This is the scenario.[/quote]

How do you know?
Has this happened to yourself?


#185

[quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“jerry spence”][quote=“BigJohn”]I’m sure this has been said before, but probably all an employer would have to do is to report to the police that it seemed you were sexually interested in children. He saw a few things that made him highly suspicious, but unfortunately has no real proof.

That would most likely do it, and you would have a very hard time teaching again.[/quote]

I call BS on this. The person making such false claims would be opn to being sued for defamation. If this was the case that any teacher could be removed this way their would be a lot of screaming going on in these forums. I have not read in the teaching English forum any mention that any teacher was removed on heresay allegation of sexual interest in children. NOthing on tealiet also about anything like this going on.[/quote]

I think you misunderstood. The owner doesn’t say this to your face or in open court. He says it privately to the NIA or the FAP once you no longer work for him. They can’t do anything because the owner does not make a criminal complaint. But they can make sure you never have another teaching job. This is the scenario.[/quote]

How do you know?
Has this happened to yourself?[/quote]

No, I am speculating. But I think it could happen.


#186

I can easily imagine a private list, perhaps managed by the local buxiban association, having nothing to do with the police or government. But again, just speculation.


#187

If you left your job for 3 days or longer without giving notice, you can be prevented from receiving a work permit for a year. These words were from my private NIA students. A school owner cannot simply “blacklist” you because they feel like it. They say that they can do it because they are pieces of crap who think they can bully people, especially newbies.[/quote]

How does this differ from what I said?[/quote]
I simply added more information.


#188

I am a member of the Taoyuan Bushiban Assocition and the only thing talked about regarding a black list is the extreme end of things…In my 7 years as a member, I have only heard about the same foreigners(small percentage) and Taiwanese doing the same shit at different schools. When I hear these stories, which mainly deal with consistently being sick, being hungover or discipline issues, I always take it with a grain of salt. There are two sides to every story. Again, this deals with a small percentage of teachers that bounce from school to school playing the same games. It’s hard not to ignore those kinds of people. Some of those names I have received resumes from and usually their stories match up with what I heard of them before.
On the positive side, things dealing with taxes, CLA and other small stuff is not talked about due to the redundancy of the issues.
Most of these meetings people just want to get the hell out of them. You are just a teacher, in their minds, you are dispensable and probably back home. If you stick around, so be it.
There a small percentage of teachers and bosses that create a shitstorm for others, stay away from them and you will have little trouble in your time in Taiwan.
In Taiwanese culture, whenever you leave an employer, they will talk some shit about you, but be confident. People can sift through the BS. If you are confident, the world is your oyster.


#189

We were talking about this recently and you really need to screw up to get on a blacklist.

forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 0&t=101935


#190

[quote=“jerry spence”]
I call BS on this. The person making such false claims would be opn to being sued for defamation.[/quote]

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

You honestly think the judge will believe a laowai?


#191

Yes, it is very real.

I know a guy who had to get married so that he could again work legally. His former employer wrote a letter to the NIA stating how horrible an employee the guy was. The employer was a nut job, but I guess her letter was convincing enough. My friend was told by NIA that the only way he could be taken off this ‘blacklist’ would be if the former employer wrote ANOTHER note saying that she was mistaken and that the claims she originally made are not true. That was never going to happen, hence his marriage.

Also have a friend who used a fake diploma. He was told he wouldn’t be able to get a work permit unless he actually went home for four years and got an actual diploma from an actual school.

Perhaps there is no actual list, but you can definitely have something written in your file.


#192

What were conditions that your friend left his job? Did he sign termination papers? Or did he just walk off his job? There isn’t a lot known about the blacklist and I’m not certain either but that’s what I’ve heard is necessary to get blacklisted (basically do a runner).


#193

He fulfilled his contract and simply no longer wanted to work for the lady another year. From my own experience working and knowing this person, he is a good, hardworking, truthful guy. Doesn’t drink, do drugs, speak ill of others. All I can figure is that she was mad he was leaving. She made up a story about he ruined her business or something, complete fiction. I don’t know if the lady had connections (maybe a good friend/former classmate) at NIA, but this seriously happened. He taught illegally for a few years or so until his girlfriend agreed to get married. His employer had been promoting his classes using a pseudonym and after the marriage papers were signed, he could start using his real name at work.

The whole situation affected his mental health. NIA said there was absolutely nothing he could do, since as others have pointed out, why should they believe the foreigner? He didn’t/doesn’t talk about it much – mostly because he didn’t want NIA to find out about his illegal working, but even now he sees it as a real low point in his life.

True, true, true story.

I bet there are other cases such as this, but that those people don’t want to talk about it or they leave for better things. Jus’cause it ain’t reported dain’t mean it don’t happen, as my gramps likes to say.


#194

[quote=“PigBloodCake”][quote=“jerry spence”]
I call BS on this. The person making such false claims would be opn to being sued for defamation.[/quote]

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

You honestly think the judge will believe a laowai?[/quote]

More than I honeslty believe in a mythical blacklist that is nothing ore than BS and speculation


#195

[quote=“jerry spence”]

More than I honeslty believe in a mythical blacklist that is nothing ore than BS and speculation[/quote]

I used to be of the same opinion regarding the teacher blacklist. However, people who genuinely know what’s what have recently put me straight.

There is a teacher’s blacklist held by the MOE. To be included on it you need to break your contract within your first year of working in Taiwan.


#196

[quote=“tomthorne”]I used to be of the same opinion regarding the teacher blacklist. However, people who genuinely know what’s what have recently put me straight.

There is a teacher’s blacklist held by the MOE. To be included on it you need to break your contract within your first year of working in Taiwan.[/quote]

This is my understanding as well and I’m wondering if the itswaytoolate’s friend didn’t sign the contract termination paperwork. If he didn’t then the school can say that he just ran off. Being a good teacher and saying that you completed your contract is circumstantial and lacks any proof. The contract termination is that proof.


#197

For an employer (even an asshole one) to go as far as to write a letter, I think the employee must also be a bit rotten.


#198

For an employer (even an asshole one) to go as far as to write a letter, I think the employee must also be a bit rotten.[/quote]

Very possibly. However, at least a semblance of due process would be comforting. Having a system where one person can make a complaint about another thereby removing his ability to be employed seems a bit off, don’t you think? Anyway, I still find it hard to be convinced that that form of blacklist exists in Taiwan. It just seems ludicrously unfair. I was wrong about any blacklist existing, though, so maybe it does.


#199

For an employer (even an asshole one) to go as far as to write a letter, I think the employee must also be a bit rotten.[/quote]

Writing a letter isn’t so hard, especially when you are crazy and you have lots of spare time. You are welcome to think what you want. However, I know him well and know him to be a good guy who just happened to be in a rotten situation.

[quote=“Abacus”][quote=“tomthorne”]I used to be of the same opinion regarding the teacher blacklist. However, people who genuinely know what’s what have recently put me straight.

There is a teacher’s blacklist held by the MOE. To be included on it you need to break your contract within your first year of working in Taiwan.[/quote]

This is my understanding as well and I’m wondering if the itswaytoolate’s friend didn’t sign the contract termination paperwork. If he didn’t then the school can say that he just ran off. Being a good teacher and saying that you completed your contract is circumstantial and lacks any proof. The contract termination is that proof.[/quote]

AFAIK, the employer’s complaint wasn’t that he ran off. It was that he somehow ruined her business. I really don’t know about this termination paperwork you mention, but how do we know if she didn’t let him sign any paperwork? I wasn’t aware that you sign termination paperwork if a contract’s time period ends?

Again, I really don’t know the nitty-gritty details, all I know is the overall situation and how he was blacklisted from getting another job until the employer had a change of heart.


#200

If this happens use the courts and sue for defamation. Then they have to prove everything they claimed is true, not an easy task and expensive to hire lawyers. Then say if you withdraw claims you will drop the case.