No, it doesn’t. There are more than 20 teachers in Taipei City. Click on the search button and it gives you the name of exactly one teacher. I find it hard to believe that Pingtung and Kinmen have 87 and 82 foreign teachers respectively, while Taipei City and County have only 20 and 21. The database is fucked up.
A bushiban has to actually enter their information on this site, which many obviously don’t bother doing. I haven’t bothered to enter my school but that doesn’t necesarily make the site “fucked up”. Outdated, maybe.
Re-read what I posted. I seriously doubt there are 82 foreign English teachers at buxibans in Jinmen. That’s an obvious fuck-up.
I have been in contact with the CLA and this is the information that I received.
The teacher blacklist is indeed back in effect, but is much stronger than before. Once a teacher has been blacklisted the blacklisting is indefinite and the teacher will not be allowed to teach in Taiwan again. Previously blacklisting was only for a two year period. The blacklisting applies to the issuance of work permits for teachers, and doesn’t prevent teachers from coming back to travel or study.
The CLA will notify teachers that they have been blacklisted as per the contact information that they have for the teacher. If you have moved house or overseas then of course you will not receive this notification.
For a teacher to be blacklisted all he or she needs to do is fail to show up for three days in a row without giving notice to the school, at which time they will be considered a run-away. A mark will be placed against his or her name and no further work permits will be issued to that teacher. Any future applications will be returned with notification given to the new employer about the blacklisting.
In the opinion of the CLA, teachers can break their employment contracts with one months notice, but any penalty provisions in the contract agreed to between the parties may be enforceable. If you break your contract without notice for any reason then you may be blacklisted, and the CLA seems to have very little sympathy for teachers who leave their employers without notice. There may be disadvantages to letting your employer know that you will leave them, but the consequences of not doing so may have further and much more severe repercussions.
Teachers who have been blacklisted can appeal to the CLA and a decision will be made within 30 days. It doesn’t appear that the CLA will place much weight on complaints unless these can be documented which seems to reinforce the advice that you should keep everything in writing. To successfully appeal the blacklisting, a teacher would need to be able to prove that he or she didn’t run away but instead gave notice. The general notice period in Taiwan is one month, but a shorter period may be considered in some circumstances.
If you can prove that the employer blacklisted you maliciously and without reason then the CLA affirms that action will be taken against the employer. Exactly what action would be taken is unclear, but the lady I spoke to seemed quite adament about this, and stressed both the seriousness of being blacklisted as well as blacklisting.
[color=darkred][b]Important Points
- Keep any and all documentation that your employer gives you.
- Write any notifications that you give your employer down and keep a copy. Email can be a good way to prove dates and times.
- Do not leave your employer without giving written notice of your intention to do so. This applies equally to employers with which you have a good relationship with as it does to those you don’t get on well with.
- Contact the CLA if you have been blacklisted for advice.[/b][/color]
Finally, if you want to check if you have been blacklisted then this is possible by contacting the CLA or by visiting this site. I assume that the CLA will only have information on individuals who have been blacklisted since 2004 so if your enquiry goes back prior to this I am unsure as to whether or not the CLA could help you. You will need to reveal a certain amount of personal information in order for this check to be conducted.
Head’s up! Looks like the official teacher blacklist has come back with a vengeance. If you are thinking of quitting an employer without completing your contract watch out. Make sure you give your notice in writing and keep evidence of when you leave.
Based on what I read I find the prospect a little alarming.
Both of these posts are based on one person’s experience - brian of buxiban.com. Not that I doubt him, but do we have any independent confirmation of a new teacher blacklist?
Actually 2 people, one who is/was blacklisted, Erick Morrillo aka Frankie Knuckles, and brian of buxiban.com, who followed up on the story, and whom I would consider the independent confirmation.
I doubt that the CLA really has the authority to maintain such a list. Once again, the need for a international resident’s group that would deal with issues such as :
-
Access to credit and bank accounts (see discussions over in money and banking)
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Arbitrary interpretations of period of residence needed for permanent residence.
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Blacklisting practices
The Buxiban owners have obviously succesfully lobbied the CLA to set up this black list. Are otherwhire collar foreign empoyees blacklisted? What law gives the CLA the power to create such a list.
If we had such a group representing the interests of international communty members, the first step would be to visit the CLA and find out why they have set up the list and express our concerns. Later steps might include contacting the media, human rights, and labor groups. And if necessary, it might also be possible to file an administrative appeal.
I’m a buxiban owner (sort of - right now I’m between schools). How do I blacklist somebody? As a buxiban boss, surely I have the right or power to do this, no? Somebody outline the procedure, and I’ll find out all I can.
[quote=“Feiren”]I doubt that the CLA really has the authority to maintain such a list. Once again, the need for a international resident’s group that would deal with issues such as :
-
Access to credit and bank accounts (see discussions over in money and banking)
-
Arbitrary interpretations of period of residence needed for permanent residence.
-
Blacklisting practices
The Buxiban owners have obviously succesfully lobbied the CLA to set up this black list. Are otherwhire collar foreign empoyees blacklisted? What law gives the CLA the power to create such a list.
If we had such a group representing the interests of international communty members, the first step would be to visit the CLA and find out why they have set up the list and express our concerns. Later steps might include contacting the media, human rights, and labor groups. And if necessary, it might also be possible to file an administrative appeal.[/quote]
Why would the CLA not have the authority, as the department responsible for issuing visas they are the right people to hold it surely.
The principle of a black list is fine, they way it is administered may not be, and that is the problem. Why should terachers who just get up and leave not be punished for their actions, many do so because there are no consequences.
Maoman raises a really good point. If there is a formalized blacklist, as a legitimate bushiban owner, he should be able add people to In fact, there are many peple who post on this site who are the principal operators of legal bushibans. Why would Maoman and others not know there is a list? If it’s because they doesn’t yet know how to get teachers on the list, how can they find out how to do it. If the ability to blacklist is limited a small number of people, it’s not a very important list.
Interesting to note how much time and resources both the Taiwanese buxiban association and the CLA are willing to devote to this, and how little to the overall quality of teaching.
Basically, this is mafia-style behaviour, intended to get around Taiwanese employment law. What possible benefit it could be to a buxiban is beyond me, except as a lever used to threatening a teacher into forgoing his rights, or as an outlet for petty spite.
And don’t let anyone tell you Taiwanese people don’t quit suddenly and take a better job. Traveller says “Why should terachers who just get up and leave not be punished for their actions, many do so because there are no consequences”. The reason is, that is not how the workplace operates in Taiwan. It is accepted and normal for people to suddenly quit without notice. They may have pay taken in lieu of notice, but there is no accptance that they should be blackballed for doing so.
In any case, contracts can quite legally set out termination clauses which provide for early termination penalties to compensate an employer for someone leaving early. This is not what this blacklist is for, IMHO.
The problem isn’t the list so much as the lack of due process. You give a school notice, the school threatens that you can’t work anymore, after one month you quit and go to a new school, the school blacklists you, and then when you try to work for your new employer you can’t get a permit because you’re blacklisted.
Most likely you’ll have to leave the country and come back as a visitor in order to fight the process.
Would you agree for a blacklist for holders of green cards or their equivalent in western countries? Manuel Esperenza quits his job at Burger King and gets blacklisted? Ubuktu Zahumbra quits his job at Xerox International and gets blacklisted? That makes no sense.
Would you agree for a blacklist for holders of green cards or their equivalent in western countries? Manuel Esperenza quits his job at Burger King and gets blacklisted? Ubuktu Zahumbra quits his job at Xerox International and gets blacklisted? That makes no sense.[/quote]
Maoman, please read my sentence again, the principle is correct, the way it is administered is the problem. Just because a person quits a job should not put them on the blacklist. If they quit without the notice as given in the contract they signed then sorry, i would say that they deserved to be on the list. Extenuating circumstances will sometimes apply, and if the list is administered properly then a right of appeal as so to speak would be allowed.
There should also be a blacklist of all schools that do not behave in a legal and professional manner, for that matter they should be closed down and the owners put on a blacklist so that new schools could not be started.
Traveller, I believe there is a blacklist of sorts anyway for people who have violated the terms of their visas. What does this new list add? Under the current regulations for any foreigner, an employer can imform the CLA that a worker has gone AWOL and have his work permit revoked. This then means his reason for residency no longer exists and the FAP will notify him to leave the country within 14 days. This does not however necessarily have future immigration or work permit repercussions.
Is this an English teacher specific list, or is it a general list for all employees on ARCs? I am not an English teacher. If my employer takes a dislike to me, can he put me on this blacklist, I wonder?
I am sure most countries have immigration law violator lists, but I think what we have here is a list intended to spot immigration law violators being used to create pressure on workers over and above what is allowed in the Labour Law.
The way perhaps to get around this is to send registered letters every three days to your old employer until you get a new permit. However, the Chinese is “kuang zhi” which just means being absent without leave from your job. You can check the wording - it’s written on the work permit itself.
I would argue that if you’ve given notice that you are terminating the contract and you do so correctly, there can be no “kuang zhi” and no grounds for an adverse immigration record. That is I am assuming there is not a separate English teacher specific blacklist.
Out of curiosity, does CLA keep a blacklist for runaway maids and factory workers?
I agree with 21p. I believe that there is such a list of migrant workers. Checking.
I agree with 21p. I believe that there is such a list of migrant workers. Checking.
Maoman - MLMcLean (Yellow Cartman) can also confirm that the foreign teacher blacklist is back. As one of the other posters here has pointed out, I became interested upon seeing mention that a teacher had been blacklisted. I didn’t really believe it to be the case but followed up with the CLA and was indeed surprised to find out that schools can in fact have teachers blacklisted.
Feiren - You may be right in that schools may have petitioned for a blacklist but there may be another explanation. The CLA have always been pretty tough on blue collar run aways as the CLA has always been the authority in charge of this area of the employment market. Action taken against run away workers was based upon the Immigration Act and the Labor Standards Act. It is likely that now that we foreigners have fallen under the control of the CLA, that they are just applying the same rules against us. I say this as there doesn’t seem to be any scope for blacklisting of teachers for any other reason than being absent from work without notice for three days running - which is a stipulation for deportation as stated in the Enforcement Rules of the Immigration Act.
My original post may have been somewhat misleading so let me explain. I chose the term ‘blacklist’ as it was probably the most easily identifiable way of referring to this process. There is no list as such and this is no doubt the reason that the CLA have neither notified schools nor teachers about the existence of a blacklist, as a list per se doesn’t exist.
So what is this all about? Well, the CLA puts a mark against a teachers name after receiving word from a school that a teacher has not shown up for work three days running and without notice. This is inline with the content of the Immigration Act, and yes they have been doing this with blue collar workers for some time.
Having a mark against your name effectively prevents the teacher from securing another work permit to teach, and I assume that it would have repercussions for any field of work that required the CLA to process the work permit. The interesting thing is that this blacklisting is apparently indefinite and blacklisted teachers can never again hold a work permit to teach in Taiwan. This is somewhat different than the blacklisting done by the MOE in years gone past, as those blacklistings were only for a year or two.
Teacher blacklisting has no affect upon ones chances of securing a visa to come to Taiwan however.
So the question as to whether or not Maoman and other school owners here can have a teacher ‘blacklisted’ well I am sure the answer is yes. All you need to do is contact the CLA with the information.
The obvious problem with this system is that it places complete faith in the school telling the truth. When asked about the possibility of schools misusing the system, the CLA assured me that the process was not to be viewed lightly and that schools caught abusing the system would be punished. I am unsure how the schools would be punished, but the staff I spoke to seemed genuine in their concerns about this aspect of the process.
Additionally, the CLA seemed to be very accepting of the need for mediation in cases where a teacher claimed that he or she had been blacklisted without reason. I was told that a decision would be made within 30 days.
[color=darkred][b]There seems to be some confusion as to who can be blacklisted so let me clarify.
- A teacher who breaks his or her contract after giving at least one months notice (as per Taiwan’s Labor Law) would not be blacklisted.
- A teacher who breaks his or her contract without giving notice, and fails to show up for three days in a row would be a blacklist candidate.[/b][/color]
In my opinion, the teachers who the CLA wants to blacklist are exactly the type of teachers who should be blacklisted - i.e. those teachers who sign a contract, decide that they want to leave early, and then decide to run away in order to avoid paying a breach penalty that they agreed to when they signed the contract.
Once again, the blacklist has no effect upon teachers who fulfill the terms of their contract nor those who resign positions legitimately.