Father Dragonbones, is it possible to learn Chinese without going to KTV? I believe it to be an abomination and a sin against all that is holy. When I said this, my teacher started speaking in tongues and when I checked my dictionary, she was saying something about camels and eyes of needles.
It’s far far worse for my fellow KTV-ers than me! Lots of people say they can’t sing out of false modesty. My ‘Yellow Submarine’ has made grown men cry. Not in a good way.
But back to Chinese learning. A question for all you translator/very good types. How do you get past the middle level?
I’ve finished Audio Visual Chinese Book 3. I can more or less read basic texts and I can talk about what I want to (not always accurately and elegantly but neither’s my English). My writing’s not great 'cos I don’t practice enough. My listening’s not bad 'cos I listen to Chinese a lot. (My teacher gives me loads of DVDs; just been watching 橘子紅了 which is fab.)
But I feel like it’s not really going anywhere fast. A lot of the time I will read a little and I know all the characters but not what the overall meaning is. And even after all this time, I still get a HAH? at the 7-11 sometimes. How can I put it all together a little?
It’s normal to feel like you’ve hit a plateau sometimes, whether you’re training yourself physically or mentally. You just have to keep pushing, having faith that the efforts will pay off before too long.
One reason our progress seems to slow is that at first, every 20 words you learn is a big step forward, like the first buckets of water into a bathtub. But later, the same 20 words per day might not feel like you’re adding much to the existing volume, percentage-wise. Like buckets of water added to a mostly-full tub. But steady, continued effort (persistence!) will eventually fill an olympic-sized pool.
Also, when you hit a plateau, you might still be learning but not realize it. One thing you do when you keep using your Chinese without adding many new words is that you are consolidating the knowledge you’ve already learned. The words you’re using become a more natural part of your vocabulary, and you become more able to use them with less effort. You also become more able to pay attention to and pick up on words and usages that were there all the time but which you were previously too overwhelmed to attend to. So you’ll still learn (even without too much effort) as long as you keep using your Chinese all the time. After a while, you’ll feel readier to push ahead again with renewed energy and enthusiasm, and you’ll break out of that plateau.
As for materials to use, just keep reading texts that you enjoy and that challenge you a moderate amount. Eventually, you’ll be reading adult materials. Keep up a regular schedule of oral practice (e.g., multiple language exchange partners) too!
Sounds sensible. Motivation comes and goes. I’e convinced myself that watching dvds is the most important part of my program right now. Have to read and write more!
Use something to gauge your ability, such as novel that you would find difficult at your current level. Read it through once, without spending much time looking up words and trying to understand everything – just see how much of it makes sense to you. Forget about the book for a few months, and try to read it again. If you’ve been making decent progress, you will be amazed at how much better you can understand it without having to stop and think about what you’re reading.
It can give you a goal to work toward, and be a source of encouragement.
Or you can do it the other way – read it once, looking up all the words, then go back to it and re-read it. The second time, you’ll be much better able to focus on the overall meaning, and it will also serve as a review of the new vocab.
Sounds like you’re up for reading the Apple Daily. I think it quite helpful, a nice easy smutty read with lots of current terms to load up on. Good for discussions with the natives, too.
Don’t kick me for the low brow suggestion now, Dragonbones, I would suggest Romance of the Three Kingdoms, but that’s quite heavy going.
I know all of you love to pan KTV. But honestly, I’ve learned a heck of a lot of Chinese from Mando- and Cantopop. If singing at a KTV turns your friends into enemies, then why not just sing it at home and look up all the words in the lyrics. Of course, I only looked up the lyrics of songs I actually enjoyed. It’s a good source of motivation especially if you enjoy the music. The downside is that your vocabulary will soon be biased with all sorts of lovey dovey words and phrases. But let me tell you, have those vocabulary ever come in handy! However, that’s another story…
That’s the problem with watching TV shows on DVD. You get some strange vocabulary and ways of speaking. My Chinese teacher pointed out (when she was trying to sell reading some boring articles from Chinese BBC to me), my Chinese would be great if I were a turn of the century third wife in Shanghai and second wife was giving me trouble, but I’m not. (Fantasies shattered again…)
Songs are good. Had the theme tune to 金粉世家 (Cheezy as hell mainland China-I-think series) whizzing round my head for ages. Something about love being reborn from the ashes. ‘當花瓣離開花朵- 暗香殘留…’
My Chinese teacher said she was going to start teaching the ‘把’ construction using the last part of the MC Hotdog song.
Also, these shows have a lot of great vocabulary and speech patterns that would be useful if you’re an official serving on the Qing court. But that’s somehow unlikely…
But once, to alert my co-workers that the boss was coming, I said “皇上駕到”!
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Sounds like you’re up for reading the Apple Daily. I think it quite helpful, a nice easy smutty read with lots of current terms to load up on. Good for discussions with the natives, too.
Don’t kick me for the low brow suggestion now, Dragonbones, I would suggest Romance of the Three Kingdoms, but that’s quite heavy going.
HG[/quote]
No, I fully concur – Apple Daily would be great. In fact, when I was at that point, wanting to move from textbooks to other stuff but not ready for novels yet (in my case), I picked up an issue or two of similar mags , and a slightly racy 15-volume comic, 電影少女, as well as some kids books that had bopomofo alongside the text, and a similar set of thin, digestible National Palace Museum publications for teenagers on topics like bronzes, ceramics, jade, etc. Good stuff. The next step was easy, colloquial novels like 離島醫生, and news clippings, as well as ancient poetry with translations, and the script to Crouching Tiger.
When you reach the point where you can read colloquial stuff, you could use three principles to guide you: 1) read popular stuff so you can talk about it with people, 2) read stuff that’s interesting to you, to keep you motivated, and 3) read a variety of topics so you pick up a broader vocabulary. Of the three, I think #2 is the most important by far, because without motivation, you won’t progress as much.
I tried to read “Romance of the Three Kindoms” in English once. It was a little too much like the book of Genesis for my liking. Too many names.
What do you guys think about that TV show thats on AXN about old China? It’s kind of like a medieval soap opera in Chinese. I find that if I watch it I can kind of figure out what’s going on, but not very well.
I would love to be able to understand “Kung Fu Hustle” without subtitles. I also look forward to understanding The Apple Daily.
Do those comic books that the kids read have a lot of bupumufu in them? I’m never actually taken the time to look at one. Might be a good way to go on some level…
I have a 15-vol. set that has only characters, no bopomofo, but the level is pretty easy, and I’ve already looked up any characters that aren’t easy, and neatly added the pronunciation and meaning in the margins. If anyone in Taipei is interested in buying it off me, drop me a PM. The theme? Frustrated teenage love and lust in a girl-girl-boy triangle. The art is “slightly naughty” now and then, and good quality cartooning.
Yeah, I can’t stand karaoke either. 
)
However, that’s another story…