Is the UN reaping what it sowed?

Is the UN reaping what it sowed?

  • Yes, it is finally a victim of the terrorism it rewarded
  • No, the UN is in no way to blame

0 voters

Here is an excerpt from an article by Alan Dershowitz in today’s LA Times.

But the question got me to thinking: Who does share the blame with the terrorists themselves for the horrific explosion that killed and injured so many innocent people? Although the primary culprit is clearly the terrorist group that planned and executed the mass murder, the secondary culprit is the U.N. itself.

For more than a quarter of a century, the U.N. has actively encouraged terrorism by rewarding its primary practitioners, legitimating it as a tactic, condemning its victims when they try to defend themselves and describing the murderers of innocent children as “freedom fighters.” No organization in the world today has accorded so much legitimacy to terrorism as has the U.N.

AND

• There are numerous occupied peoples around the world seeking statehood or national liberation, including the Tibetans, Kurds, Turkish Armenians and Palestinians. Only one of these groups has received official recognition by the U.N., including observer status and invitations to speak and participate in committee work. That group is the one that invented and perfected modern international terrorism

Remember how on Nov. 13, 1974, the UN allowed Yassir Arafat to address the General Assembly while wearing a pistol? In his address, he said:

“I have come bearing an olive branch and a freedom fighter’s gun. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand.”

And during the 1970s and early 1980s, the UN shared offices with the PLO in Berut and allowed the PLO to use it’s printing facilities to print propaganda and training training materials.

edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/mi … index.html

“If you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.”

Here we have one of those moral inconsistencies.

First, how many of those who pointed the blame at US foreign policy for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks will now equally put the blame on the UN?

Also, for those who defended US foreign policy saying nothing justifies such actions, will they too stand up for the UN?

Just curious. If not, what’s the difference?

freddy

[quote=“blueface666”]Remember how on Nov. 13, 1974, the US allowed Yassir Arafat to address the General Assembly while wearing a pistol? In his address, he said:

“I have come bearing an olive branch and a freedom fighter’s gun. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand.” [/quote]

The US wore a pistol at the General Assembly? how does that work?

Fred,
I disagree with people who generalize and say 911 was because of reason A or reason B to the exclusion of other reasons C thru D.
I would only say that people in the US should not be so surprised when something like this happens, as bad as it is. it shows how the average american doesn’t care and doesn’t pay attention to world events, and what its government does abroad.
the UN is not perfect, so other posters have said just dump it. kyoto, not perfect, so dump it. when have we ever required perfection before embarking on something? that’s plain silly. instead of just junking things like this, why don’t we stick with it, reform it, improve it, or replace it with something better.
ok, i am not really answering your question, just remarking on the tone and [implied] connotations associated with your statement.

[quote=“Kenny McCormick”][quote=“blueface666”]Remember how on Nov. 13, 1974, the US allowed Yassir Arafat to address the General Assembly while wearing a pistol? In his address, he said:

“I have come bearing an olive branch and a freedom fighter’s gun. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand.” [/quote]

The US wore a pistol at the General Assembly? how does that work?

[/quote]

Sorry, that should have been “the UN allowed Yassir Arafat…”, and don’t bug me about grammar or I’ll…make you very, very sorry! :laughing:

Everybody seems to expect the US government to be perfect, all-knowing, responsible for every sparrow that dies in Outer Mongolia and humble. And I almost forgot, have bottomless pockets.

Kenny:

Actually I am leaving myself pretty open on this one. I do think that moral consistency is required and therefore those who said okay America you got what you deserved will by virtue have to agree that the UN got what it deserved for its evil foreign policy etc etc.

That said, conservatives who spoke out in anger at people who criticized the US for its actions, will by virtue of their previous statements also have to come down as equally against such comparisons with regard to the UN. Right?

Kenny:

I’d also like to challenge another myth:

I think that the average American is just about as knowledgeable as the average European in terms of foreign affairs. Now of course Europeans will know their leaders etc in much the same way Americans know the leaders of or issues in various states.

Does the average European really know more about Latin America or Africa than the average Asian? or American? I went to what would be considered as a top university in Europe and I was not particularly impressed with the knowledge of my enlightened fellow classmates. Sure they all vacation in Italy, Greece, Spain, Eastern Europe, but then compare this with the average American’s knowledge of Mexico, Canada and the Caribbean.

I think much as the liberal media in the US likes to laugh at “stupid” presidents (all Republicans of course) like Reagan and Bush, “smart” Europeans like to laugh at “dumb” Americans. Of course, with all the laffing naturally is the egoistic assumption that one is in a position to laugh at one’s inferiors no?

Everybody seems to expect the US government to be perfect, all-knowing, responsible for every sparrow that dies in Outer Mongolia and humble. And I almost forgot, have bottomless pockets.[/quote]

just winding you up about the grammar :laughing:

yah, i don’t think I expect the US to be perfect. But I believe in the Constitution, so I have a lot of hope and perhaps high expectations. I just hope that we do strive for perfection even if it isn’t attainable. Lot better than becoming lot of the apathetic Americans (some friends too) that I know or met. ecetera, ecetera.

You can criticise the UN, but it looks like Bush will want to use them to make himself look like he has been a success in Iraq when he has left the place in a mess.

From: monbiot.com/

[quote]Beware the Bluewash
The UN should not become the dustbin for America

Fred, I find your posts rather monotonous. Do you really have such a one-track mind? Aren’t you here in Taiwan? Can’t you talk about the weather or something?

Cake:

I normally do not agree with you, but thanks for that post. It at least gives one pause to think.

First, I would doubt that the US would cut off oil to China. Does the author intend to suggest that sealanes do not need to be guarded. If not the US then who?

Second, I believe that the action is only to get some Muslim peacekeepers involved to reduce the heavy preponderance of the American presence. This I support.

Yet, at the end of the day, the US will remain primarily in charge of the security aspects. Given the number of terrorists that are going to Iraq, this begs the question: Is it the US fault that they are there? If they were not in Iraq would they be elswhere? It depends on if you subscribe to the view that the neoconservative Americans are actually there to and capable of tranforming the middle east. Finally, is that a worthy and practical goal?

Sorry if bore with my onetrack mindedness, but I find these discussions eminently more interesting and worthy of discussion than the weather. Sorry.

freddy

So don’t read his posts. :unamused: Geez!

Well…the UN should feel right at home in Iraq. After all, they have lots of experience.

Food Fight

When the Food Workers Union stages an impromptu walkout at the U.N., the diplomats start looting for lunch and booze

Kofi Annan, who had a private lunch previously scheduled with the members of the Security Council in the Delegates Dining Room, found they were only served the main course. After that, they were on their own

Thanks Tigerman.

Seriously though, anyone who has an interest in politics etc. is free to join. Fire away. I don’t mind. Call me whenever you like. It only challenges me to explain my views better and in the process, I will learn something new myself. I like the fact that we can discuss what to me are important issues. Please feel free to join and learn or at least expand your views on these issues.

Good ole Blueface:

hahaha

Hi girls!

I agree with you Fred that these issues are extremely important. Even though there are huge differences of opinion in many of these arguements, I respect the fact that people take time to think of events and people that may appear–on the surface–not to be of any importance to them. They do.

“Not my problem,” “Why should I care,” and other such manifestations of indifference make me seethe.

I always wonder to what extent people in the “Windows on the World” restaurant considered the goings on in Afghanistan prior to the airline slamming into the building.

Dunc

Big Dunc:

Amen to that and I don’t mean that in any “particular” way whatsoever.

When there is a problem, it behooves all of us to at least try to understand it, realize that there are no perfect solutions and respect anyone who is capable of truly making things better. Is that the UN or the US? Well that is what we are trying to decide on these forums. I have taken the view that the US is capable of great good in the world. Can the UN help militarily? No not really. Can it make a difference by making it easier for nations such as Pakistan, India et al to get involved? Well, yes. Will that help in Iraq? Maybe. But these kinds of security issues are really waht the UN was designed to handle. Can it? Hardly. Should the rest of the UN members play hardball simply because they are not given an equal say in all this? Why? Are they providing the money, support or troops to make a difference? No. Therefore the UN should be grateful to the US for dealing with what ultimately should be its primary responsibilty if it could handle the matter.

The whole pre and post debate still raise one major concern for me. If Germany and France are ostensibly allies of the United States and if they truly do not want to get involved. Fine. Step aside, but do not veto or block such measures or what is the message that they are ultimately sending to the US?

I am not aware of any one who really expects that German of French troops will make that big of a difference. So stay out but don’t actively try to gum up the works. Sorry neither nationa really matters much in the world these days. I hope that is not too much of a midlife crisis for these nations to face, but they made their bed and now they will have to lie in it much as the US will have to deal with the fallout in Iraq. But no matter how ugly the pre debate, this continued obstruction to prove a point will only make the UN that much more irrelevant and to me this would be directly counter to what these nations have stated as their goals: Making the UN more relevant.

So don’t read his posts. :roll: Geez![/quote]
No, don’t worry on my account; I’m not feeling distressed; just a little concerned on Fred’s behalf that he seems to really believe that each of his posts is really saying something new, and that politics and politicians can really accomplish something of lasting good.

Never mind, it seems that my post has been at least of temporary benefit in that it has got all you politics-heads to finally agree on something. Still, can’t help feeling we should start a new forum with a name something like;
‘People who have some connection with Taiwan talking about politics which have some connection to the USA’.

Joesax:

Okay cynicism. You know it’s so pointless to believe that any of us can make a difference. Sorry you feel that way now, though without being condescending, you may grow out of it. Once you realize that politicians are human beings and that the system does not have to be perfect to do some good, then you might take a greater interest as well. Look at how much is actually good about the world system, look at the prosperity, health care and education that a large percentage of the world benefits and lest you say but look at the rest of the world that does not, try to remember that in the past 100 years, how much things have improved for so many people. Without trying to sound sappy, that is an accomplishment and I hope that more people actually make the effort to try to do something about improving their own conditions as well as those of the people around them. Hurray for civic mindedness!

[quote=“fred smith”]Joesax:

Okay cynicism. You know it’s so pointless to believe that any of us can make a difference. Sorry you feel that way now, though without being condescending, you may grow out of it. Once you realize that politicians are human beings and that the system does not have to be perfect to do some good, then you might take a greater interest as well. Look at how much is actually good about the world system, look at the prosperity, health care and education that a large percentage of the world benefits and lest you say but look at the rest of the world that does not, try to remember that in the past 100 years, how much things have improved for so many people. Without trying to sound sappy, that is an accomplishment and I hope that more people actually make the effort to try to do something about improving their own conditions as well as those of the people around them. Hurray for civic mindedness![/quote]
You don’t know me. I am anything but a cynic. I believe passionately in our ability to accomplish something of truly lasting worth. Maybe you do as well, but we disagree profoundly on the means to accomplish this.
I don’t think things have improved overall in the last 100 years. Although medical care has advanced greatly and it is arguable that modern communications have been of greater benefit than detriment to peoples’ lives, in many ways there is much less stability and a lot more confusion.
This is not to say that some individuals who have been involved with politicians have not done a great deal of good; but I feel that the general belief that attachment to a particular political party or career politician can help people is erroneous. Many politicians start with sincerity and lofty ideals but the continuous fighting and dogmatism gets to them and the original ideals get lost.

I suppose I was impolite in butting into your conversation about the UN. Of course you have as much right as I have to start threads and continue posting about whatever you feel worthy, and Tigerman, as he has actually donated money to Forumosa, arguably has a greater right.