Is there a crackdown going on?

A school where I have been working (teaching English) has been raided twice in the last month. The last time they came with attitude and cameras but did not actually talk to any of the teachers working illegally (me).

I work at another school (teaching French) where all the teachers are illegal and as far as I know they have had no trouble.

I had heard that there is a crackdown going on. Is this true, or is the first school that I work at just unlucky/on the bad side of someone?

There have been loads of raids in the Neihu area of Taipei recently. four schools, that I know of off the top of my head.

I have a friend who has an ARC from a bushiban that he works at, but also works illegally at a private elementary school (illegal because he doesn’t have a teaching qualification). He also has jobs at other bushibans which are not shown on his ARC and therefore not taxed. He asked me to ask you guys the following questions:

(1) Does this supposed crackdown also apply to elementary schools, or is it just bushibans/kindergartens?

(2) Will he be deported if he gets busted in one of the bushibans that he hasn’t got an ARC from? If not, what will happen?

Thanks in advance for the help!

teggs

So this is a real crackdown? Why? Or is asking why just silly?

I got information from a trusted source and yes there are crackdowns going on. This source asked me to warn people that I know that if you are caught working at a bushiban that IS NOT listed on your ARC you are at a high risk for being deported. So, pass this on. The impression I got from my source is this is very serious.

Obviously, you cannot tell us who your source is, but can you give us more details?

Knowing if this is related to the CLA or the Foreign Affairs Police (MOFA) would be useful.

gcat, I can refer this thread to my source and have them come on and explain.

Thanks namahottie. If they have any details about how the deportation process works too, that’d be great ie what the police do when they come into the school etc.

Dont they have hidden doors to hide in and alarm bells ringing when the pigs(police) enter a buxiban? They did when I used to work in a buxiban.

Thanks Namahottie for mentioning this thread to us.

Yes, the Taipei NPA folks are making raids. They are going after schools in general. We don’t know if there are specific targets or types of targets but the people most affected by the crackdowns are the English teachers.

As has been documented twice on Forumosa by people affected by the crackdown, the police interviews those caught and make a report. Do their “investigation” and then issue a ruling in which the school pays a fine, the foreigner gets busted for illegally working and gets a deportation notice. One such individual (spunkymonkey) has posted that he has somehow been able to appeal/stay that deportation order with his gf’s help.

Now what English teachers (but actually applies to anyone) need to understand about illegally working is that if it’s not listed on your ARC or if your visa is not one intended for working (e.g. 30-day landing or 60-day visitor’s visa) then you shouldn’t do it. You don’t want to be anywhere near a NPA FAP raid because they’re going to bust you for illegally working. Do not expect that the school will speak on your behalf. They won’t (that was one of the points I raised with my contacts that the English teachers who are caught in this situation are being taken advantage of by the schools. See my other [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/getting-kicked-out-help/21281/7

As the NPA gets more aggressive about the crackdowns, this raises a ton of issues with no clear answers.

For example,

  1. How about the in-between-job teachers? They may be doing part time work to keep afloat before landing the full-time job.
  2. Current teachers with ‘supplemental’ part time jobs. Schools can’t always afford full-time so they get part time substitutes. According to my understanding of the NPA guys, they would view that supplemental part time job as illegally working.

So our advice is, don’t do it. Do privates instead. If you have to do it, you better have a line of escape and an understanding with the school to “hide you” when the NPA guys come knocking.

If anyone is familiar with the US illegal worker/immigrant issues of the 80s and 90s, you’ll know what I’m talking about. I see a lot of parallels in which the illegal migrant workers in farms, food service etc were busted regularly. The small business owners were screaming because their ability to run a business was being interfered with by the US government. The argument being that the business’ only source of employees was being taken away by the government (i.e. only illegal workers would want to work the minimum wage kind of work). The government didn’t care because they were only interested in enforcing immigration laws. If you employed someone without proper work papers or documentation, then the business was going to be fined $50,000 per offense and deport the worker. This was bad news for a long while before things started to work itself out.

Our office will continue to have further discussions about this issue but these kinds of things take time.

ML McLean

Thanks for all the useful info!

What would likely happen to a foreign teacher rounded up in a buxiban raid if they had an ARC based on marriage, but no other work documentation (eg. written employment contract, work permit)? Would they be fined? Deported?

Also, I’m still confused about this whole JFRV/ open work permit issue. :blush:
Should I have some other forms of documentation/cards, other than my ARC?

Cheers

[quote=“LagerLout”]ML McLean

Thanks for all the useful info!

What would likely happen to a foreign teacher rounded up in a buxiban raid if they had an ARC based on marriage, but no other work documentation (eg. written employment contract, work permit)? Would they be fined? Deported?

Also, I’m still confused about this whole JFRV/ open work permit issue. :blush:
Should I have some other forms of documentation/cards, other than my ARC?

Cheers[/quote]

This is uncharted territories AFAIK.

However, the FAP knows that workers with marriaged-based ARC to ROC Nationals enjoy work without restrictions. If you called any NPA FAP office and asked them, "Can I, as a spouse of a ROC National, work anywhere? They would all answer, “yes, you can because the Employment Services Act, Article 48 says so.” That means you can be anywhere you want to be and do whatever it is you want without having to show any paperwork other than your ARC.

If you really want to be sure, I’d double check with the folks at the CLA. Call them for an appointment and ask them point blank about your case. Say to them because you’ve heard that the NPA FAP have been cracking down on foreign teachers in English Schools, would you be in danger? See how they respond to you. Then get that person’s name and number if you ever need a “get out of jail free card”.

ML McLean

Cheers for your good advice.
I’ll get right on it tomorrow morning.

According to the law, they are allowed to work their, but the MOE thinks otherwise. But they won’t get deported according to assurances from high up.

Here’s my personal experience of a couple of years ago. The MOE came to check up my licenced buxiban (not a teachers crackdown as such, but just a check-up ont he licence etc). They told me and my boss that Iwas not allowed to work there. I argued otherwise. The MOE official wrote three things on the report that the school had to rectify before the next check-up. These were things like kitchen safety, getting rid of sharp corners on the coutner etc. They said that they wouldn’t put my workign there ont he report, but that we’d have to ‘sort-out’ my problem before the next check-up. I didn’t hear anythign aboutit again, and quit less than a year after that.

Brian

Yup. Gotta stop these dangerous criminals from committing the unspeakable crime of educating people!

Does the crackdown apply to schools that teach languages other than English?

I teach French at a buxiban that has no legal teachers at all. I’m working towards a work permit somewhere else, and so am quitting the French buxiban (prefer not to work illegally). However, I’m still curious as to whether the French school would also get caught up in the crackdown given that there are no English classes going on there.

You are all missing an important aspect of how many of these crackdowns start. It’s not political, or a whim of the government, it all comes down to the rat.

The rat is a busted overstayer…I was here for the first big crackdown, back in 1990 and knew the source. From a small bushiban in Keelung, it eventually resulted in an entire northern Taiwan raidathon. The teacher in question was a 3 year overstay, and had the choice of squealing out his fellow workers/friends (very long list) or going to prison. He chose the former, but at least had the presence of mind to warn some of the people mentioned.

From there, they were able to expand exponentially by offering the same deal to every illegal they caught. I was lucky at the time to have very good kuanshi with the local cops and they left me alone. But this was the birth of the alarm system, fence jumping, back door escaping escapades we see on occasion to this day.

If they are raiding schools in Neihu, then they’ve likely already caught someone and put on a bit of a “squeeze”. If this is true, then anyone working in the area is already marked, and whether they get busted or not depends entirely on the Schools “Kuanshi” with the local cops. Some things may have changed since 1990, but this aspect has not.

The cops went straight to my classroom during this first crackdown, had a look around (Kindergarten) and left. They went straight down the road and busted 3 foreigners trying to shoot out the back. My boss was well-connected, theirs wasn’t…End of story.

You’d be unpleasantly surprised to know how much the FAP actually knows about who works where. This is a good and bad thing. If you are a standup person who plays by the rules, most likely you are going to slide, even if you are “borderline legal” with some of the work you do.

The reality is that if your school is old and established you most likely won’t be hassled. The opposite is true if your school is an “upstart” and owned by a non-local.

If you work for an old time local, then you’ve almost nothing to fear,even if what you are doing is slightly illegal. If you aren’t…Fence hopping is a practiced art :smiling_imp:

Is this crackdown only in Taipei? Also, I have heard a vague rumor that the Foreign Affairs Police must tie in any investigation they make with the MOE.

Anyone know?

What’s happened during the last month re: the big crackdown that was happening when I left?
Are people still being busted, or has it calmed down again?

[quote=“MJB”]You are all missing an important aspect of how many of these crackdowns start. It’s not political, or a whim of the government, it all comes down to the rat.

The rat is a busted overstayer…I was here for the first big crackdown, back in 1990 and knew the source. From a small buxiban in Keelung (Jilong), it eventually resulted in an entire northern Taiwan raidathon. The teacher in question was a 3 year overstay, and had the choice of squealing out his fellow workers/friends (very long list) or going to prison. He chose the former, but at least had the presence of mind to warn some of the people mentioned.

From there, they were able to expand exponentially by offering the same deal to every illegal they caught. I was lucky at the time to have very good kuanshi with the local cops and they left me alone. But this was the birth of the alarm system, fence jumping, back door escaping escapades we see on occasion to this day.

If they are raiding schools in Neihu, then they’ve likely already caught someone and put on a bit of a “squeeze”. If this is true, then anyone working in the area is already marked, and whether they get busted or not depends entirely on the Schools “Kuanshi” with the local cops. Some things may have changed since 1990, but this aspect has not.

The cops went straight to my classroom during this first crackdown, had a look around (Kindergarten) and left. They went straight down the road and busted 3 foreigners trying to shoot out the back. My boss was well-connected, theirs wasn’t…End of story.

You’d be unpleasantly surprised to know how much the FAP actually knows about who works where. This is a good and bad thing. If you are a standup person who plays by the rules, most likely you are going to slide, even if you are “borderline legal” with some of the work you do.

The reality is that if your school is old and established you most likely won’t be hassled. The opposite is true if your school is an “upstart” and owned by a non-local.

If you work for an old time local, then you’ve almost nothing to fear,even if what you are doing is slightly illegal. If you aren’t…Fence hopping is a practiced art :smiling_imp:[/quote]

is this really the case nowadays? i’m dubious…mind you i can vouch for the rat system some years ago…i was asked to provide a list of 10 students who had employed me as a private teacher when i was sorting out a wee overstay problem some years ago…no list meant a spell in pokey so the filth said…again had to pull some guanxi to get out of it…