Is there a solution to the stray/pet situation?

[quote=“X3M”]Is it really better to put the poor dog on the street for life-long suffering :astonished: , than putting it down?

What is the least of two evils here???[/quote]

The reason there are so many dogs and cats in the world is because we breed them and keep them as pets. The reason there are so many stray animals in the world is because their owners were irresponsible.

I guess some people consider being humane to an animal killing it when it is in too much pain or when there are no people that want to care for it. Because they believe the animal is better off that way.

I think my dog would survive if I threw her away in the woods. I think she would survive in the city too. If I knew I was going to die one day and absolutely had to choose between that or taking her to the vet and watching him OD her with barbituates and then hold her while she dies, I would throw her away.

She would not understand if I killed her. She would not understand if I threw her away. But if I left her in the woods, I think she’d be okay. She would miss me but she would be alive. She’d be able to run through the grass and chase birds, and those things would make her happy.

If I left her in the city, she’d get dirty, probably not be able to find many things to eat, and people would kick her. Maybe some kind person would feed her regularly and eventually she’d have a new home or she might get run over by a car. But she would not be in emotional pain most of the time, I don’t think, unless she was injured.

The reason we put stray animals down is because they interfere with our lives. Some people find them smelly, some are afraid they will carry diseases, some are annoyed at their waste. So we use these reasons to rationalise taking their lives.

But I guess it’s us who’ve over-reproduced. There are a bunch of humans who are constantly starving and live in worse conditions than a stray dog in Taipei.

[quote=“The Hunger Site”]
It is estimated that one billion people in the world suffer from hunger and malnutrition. That’s roughly 100 times as many as those who actually die from these causes each year.

About 24,000 people die every day from hunger or hunger-related causes. This is down from 35,000 ten years ago, and 41,000 twenty years ago. Three-fourths of the deaths are children under the age of five. [/quote]

Most strays here manage to find enough food in order not to die of malnutrition. So these people are in a pretty sorry state. Should we put them out of their suffering by ending their lives though?

Those people are pretty miserable, right? Shouldn’t they be released from their suffering?

Most people value a human life more than a dog’s life and think a human should always live his natural lifespan. But why?

If a quick death is better than a life on the streets, then it would be justifiable to just kill all the stray animals. And I guess that is what the shelters and the government do, except they don’t try to kill every dog they see on the street right away.

I guess all pets should be exterminated then. If all the pets in the world were dead, then there would be no strays. They would not suffer anymore. Ever.

It’s really a mean thing to keep a pet I guess. You acquire another living being solely for your own selfish need of companionship. And by doing so you get to control its life entirely.

So a large-scale slaugther of all animals kept as pets would solve the problem. There would be no more dogs kept in cages most of their lives.

Does it matter then if the dog gets maybe a year or two of love? Or should the dog have been killed in the first place if no one else wanted her when she was a puppy?

There are many more dogs and cats than there are good loving homes. If a person gives a dog a few years of happiness, then abandons her, does this leave the situation worse? Or was it better than the dog always being a stray?

I guess it all depends on if time spent living life matters. If it does not matter if I die today or die thirty years from now, then it would not matter if I killed a stray today rather than neutered it and it dying in ten years. Because it was going to die eventually.

I don’t know anymore. A lot of killing would solve the problem forever, but killing is bad, right? Does the happiness the animal might experience in years to come not matter?

No. An emphatic NO. Responsible ownership includes the responsibility to find another good home for it when you can no longer take care of it. That may take some time and energy, but I refuse to believe it’s not possible. Therefore there’s absolutely no excuse for killing your pet just because you can’t take care of it (and are unwilling to invest the time and energy to find someone who can).

That’s not what AnimalsTaiwan does either. We’re not a convenient dumping ground for pet owners to use. We already have far, far, far more strays to deal with than we can handle. Folks who no longer want a pet, or those who feel they absolutely can’t take a pet with them when they leave the island, should plan on investing their own time and energy to find a good, new home for it. It’s the only responsible and humane thing to do.

^ what dragonbones said. I’ll co-sign and stamp my chop on.

I guess responsible ownership includes killing your animal when it is in too much pain or when you can no longer care for it. Because we believe they will not be able to take care of themselves.

Changed to

I guess some people consider being humane to an animal killing it when it is in too much pain or when there are no people that want to care for it. Because they believe the animal is better off that way.

I found and took home two strays in Taiwan and then took them back to Canada with me where they are having the time of their lives. If someone had simply put them down because they weren’t a convienence or because they could no longer care for them they would not have gotten the chance at a second life. I think a person should do everything in their power to find the animal a home, and I think it is possible, but if worse comes to worse abandoning the animal gives it that slim chance for a happy ending that it might never have had. I also think that it is better than sticking it in an over crowded shelter where it would just get put down anyway. As for the stray problem, it is unfortunate and I think that it occured a very long time ago, the frustrating thing is that many people are making better decisions about not getting a pet and so there are fewer homes out there. I think the spay and release is the best option Taiwan has for now. Who knows, maybe more people would be willing to take in a stray if they new that it couldn’t have puppies.

When is there ever an excuse for killing a pet unless it is already suffering a slow painful death?

But they still die because of us everyday.

I’ve seen a homeless dude with no legs in Taipei taking care of 3 very happy dogs. I couldn’t imagine any reason a person wouldn’t be able to take care of their dog anymore (short of dying).

A) They get bored of the dog.
B) The dog barks too much.
C) The dog sheds.
D) They are expecting a child.
E) The dog bites.
F) They are moving.
…ad infinitum

There are countless reasons a person can give for not being able to take care of their dog anymore.

But the real reason is that they do not respect the dog as a living being of value equal to their own. The dog is only a pet. An inferior, less important, disposable being. Not a family member. You do not hear people mention that they gave their toddler away because he was too noisy, that he was too excitable, or that he kept drawing on the walls of their apartment.

Some people want their dogs, but only when it is convenient… Imagine that…

I think the manin problem is that this is Taiwan and people are used to raising dogs in their home country, with an expansive lawn for the dog to run around in.

Taiwanese dogs when pets are home bodies. They NEED to be walked. They can’t just be let out to do their bidness. You can’t chain up a dog outside your appartment here and feel safe about it. You want to go out and take the dog? Better have a car. Can’t take it on the bus or train, and hard to go far with a cannine scooter. People take having a car for granted and when they get here they realize how necessary it was to have one and keep the same kind of lifestyle as they had with their dog back home. Jesus, even getting to a good park in Taiwan can be hard.

Having a dog in Taiwan IMHO IS VERY MUCH LIKE having a child, as it needs much more attention than a dog raised in say upstate NY. I believe it is a cruel surprise to FOBers when they get here, get working, get a dog, and then realize they bit off more than they could chew.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot because my son wants a dog, but I won’t do it. I won’t do it because I can’t.

There are other things to do, donate, volunteer, raise money, feed strays on the street…


I love dogs but I will absolutely not own one. I’m single, I’m out working 7-11 hours a day, I’m busy and I would not expect any animal in my care with myschedule to be very happy. Happy to see me when I’m there, but the other 9/10ths of the time? I don’t think so. I wouldn’t leave a small child alone either. So I go dogless.

My next door neighbor has an open rooftop next to mine (6fl) She is some sort of Buddhist and she takes care of street dogs. At last count she has 8 I think. She is old, and works small jobs and collects scrap metal all the time, to support them. She does not have one scrap of furniture in her apartment, save a bed in the middle of the floor. Two of the dogs are blind, one cannot walk, one has a terrible skin disease, and the others are in various states of mange and broken bodies.
Ever morning and every night she takes them 6 floors downstairs, and she has to carry 2 of them, walks them around the neighborhood, picks up after them, (the streets in my neighborhood are very nice, wide sidewalks, trees, etc) and then she carries them back up again. She is the only one in the building to sweep and mop the staircase. She is sixty five years old, with no family, and I wonder what will happen when she can’t anymore.

And nobody seems to like her. she is considered crazy.

There’s a motorcycle shop down the street. Outside there are 6 dog dishes, and usually 6 3 legged dogs hanging out. I am sure these dogs live outside, but the owner of the shop takes some sort of care of them. Sometimes they have that powder dumped on them to control the fleas. They look pretty content.

and then there’s the street dog near where I work. I wonder how it goes on. I feel helpless when I look at it.

I couldn’t own a dog. Not now. If I did, you better believe it would be a three legged stray, happy to have a square meal, some kind words and a pat on the back once in a while.

Are there different degrees of care? how much is enough?

Whoever spilt or started this thread - great job!

To everyone who’s posted here, I actually agree with everything each of you say. There are so many issues involved here, it’s difficult to find the right answer, as that answer also has its own problems.

I have to leave the house right now, so I can’t respond in full, but I will later. There is an answer, and it very much focuses on leaving the strays where they are, but healthy, vaccinated, and desexed. If you want to do a Google search, look up “TNR” for Trap-Neuter-Release, or “CNR” for Catch-Neuter-Return; the latter is the new name for it but yields fewer finds on Google.

And it’s a two-pronged solution: we control the stray population via TNR/CNR and educate the public so as to reduce the numbers dumped/produced on the streets.

Believe it or not, Taiwan has the perfect ingredients necessary to produce the perfect cure to this problem. There is far more hope than you could ever imagine. I’ll give you all the info later, but for now, if you want the clues to the answer, start by reading this, or at least the intro and conclusion.

Great to see this subject being discussed in a positive manner; I’ll add more to the discussion later.

Right now I have to take Taiwan’s most famous stray, Lazarus, to his new home. :slight_smile:

Speak to you soon,


canucktyuktuk, JDSmith, I think you’ve got the right approach – don’t own a dog if you can’t take proper care of it. And as JD so rightly says, there are many other ways that you can still lend a hand to help.

Stray Dog,
You’ve mentioned the TNR/CNR thing before and talked about Animals Taiwan working towards implementing this here. How close are you to doing this? Any progress?

[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”]Stray Dog,
You’ve mentioned the TNR/CNR thing before and talked about Animals Taiwan working toward implementing this here. How close are you to doing this? Any progress?[/quote]
No need to wait for Stray Dog. You can get started today!

I’ve been thinking about feeding the strays around my house for the longest time, but wasn’t sure if it was a “good” thing or a “bad” thing. Maybe I’ll start me up one of these projects rght here in my alley.

Sounds like “fun”!

I’ll get the tools and techniques figured out myself, but if there’s a place in Yong/Zhonghe or Taipei I could take the cats to for a cheap Neuter and Vacc, I’d probably start baking this cookie.

:bravo: Talk to a few vets in your area. Tell them there are some strays needing neutering, and ask if they could do it really cheaply. Then PM SD, 914 etc. to see if the prices sound reasonable. If so, yeah, definitely, go for it! :rainbow:

One group alone can’t solve everything, but if everyone pitches in, at least we can get a good start on it! :sunglasses:

Way to go jdsmith! You should post drunk more often! :bravo:

Yeah, but when the wife finds 50 people in the school to pee and hijack the phones, I’m in da shit.


Really though, I can’t stand it. This country needs an anema.