Why do many Taiwanese have an answer for everything? When you point out something many times they will deflect and give some reason that is obviously not the case. Or when you point something out and say “did you see that?” I swear many will say “See what?” Is it some ego thing?
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I lived in Taiwan for 8 years, and I speak fluent Mandarin; how about you? I am very aware of how things work. Do you remember Richard Hartzell? Without him foreigners would have likely even fewer rights than we do. The fight is worth fighting - it just takes persistence, patience, and being polite, over a very long period of time.
The thing is, I believe in Taiwan. I believe that there is a sense of fairness that most Taiwanese have, and it has started to become reflected in their policy making. It just takes time for it to be implemented and more commonplace.
My grandmother when she came to Canada was chased down the street by people of scottish/irish descent, yelling at her, and calling her all sorts of things while armed with baseball bats with nails coming out of them, due to her Polish background. Basically, she would have be beaten if they heard her speak anything other than English. Now, this was in Canada, a place that many consider to be a hallmark of human rights, and this was less than one hundred years ago.
Things can and should change; it just takes people who are willing to take certain risks, and ultimately risk losing things to fight for those rights.
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Forward Taiwan has been doing this for years. Just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
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If people are here griping to the degree they are, it shows me that this movement hasn’t been very effective.
13 here
Speaking: Near fluent
Listening: near fluent
Reading: Pretty good
Writing: Horrible, but can get by with the pinyin changing to Han zi thing on cell phones. Can write when assisted with tech devices.
No.
As I said, If there is a genuine desire to press local US officials about TW related issues, sign me up.
Depending on who you are, how much guanxi you have. Whether your great ideas will be listened to or entertained seriously depends much on that.
But that’s just it right, I think the long term residents of Taiwan have weighed out those risks, realize the rewards aren’t worth them, and then get complacent as @dan2006 said.
Progress is slow. It has been effective, just not at the speeds some would like. Prior to Hartzell, foreigners in Taiwan had very few of the rights that we have today. There was definitely no such thing as an APRC for permanent foreign residents.
Maybe a spokesperson with a voice is what is needed?
This is a very common issue amongst first generation immigrants all over the world. They are afraid of losing the life they have built if they cause any trouble. It is not that these things aren’t worth fighting for, it is that they are afraid.
I definitely don’t have all the answers here. I just think that Taiwan is a place that can develop into a more international place that is equally fair to all of its people. And, that this is a worthwhile endeavor.
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Non sequitur
If resistance is futile then why resist?
Notice how many foreigners leave the orient. Nearly 100 percent. People stop trying to join a club that will never accept them as a member
I think @Noel is trying to tell us that there has been a degree of resistance and maybe it’s not futile.
How many of them return quickly though? (Im substituting East Asian/SE Asian countries for ‘the orient’) here.
This I agree with. But I don’t think gaining acceptance is the goal, it sounds like people here are just calling for some practical bank reforms and institutional change.
As a percentage nearly 100 percent of us leave. People realize they made a mistake and will never be able to live in a place where there are obstacles everywhere. People vote with their feet. The path of least resistance is leave .
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Well, to those who have not fallen into @dan2006’s malaise of not being treated too badly and remain behind somewhat gelded, yeah. For the gelded, staying may actually be the path of least resistance. The peacefulness of their low grade humiliations can be easily laughed off with a few beers and funny anecdotes akin to many many Taiwanese are so _____ threads seen on this site.
My apologies…reading Camus atm. 
I think my message was misunderstood. I’m all for complaining about things. I wrote in about the ubike, the bus for Taichung residents, the discounts for foreigners being refused, argued for hours with banks and telecoms until they gave up, and filed an appeal about dual citizenship and lost. So I’m definitely in the fired up and pissed off category.
My reply before was that someone suggested that there are other more important causes to take up and I pointed out that humans like myself will generally take up causes that affect our lives first , without trying to minimize other struggles in life that are more serious.
In a few cases there are misunderstandings where places don’t know the rules and they need to be trained on their own policies. That’s just stupidity and not malice. But there definite is a lot of malice in many government and business policies today and I absolutely, positively think it needs to be fought. It’s better if we can all as a group write in so that it doesn’t look like one or two malcontents. We see how quickly the ubike policy got reversed when thousands wrote in.
I’ve slowed down over the years though as it gets tiring banging your head on the wall and hearing one excuse after another.
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It appears if we are being told “nothing to see here, move on” and “don’t poke the hornets nest” two contradictory statements. I think this says the truth.
A lot has been done for outsiders rights, but a lot also needs to be done.
It’s true Taiwan and in fact many countries get away with poor treatment of outsiders due to them not staying in country for long, but I don’t think that is an excuse for treating them like second class citizens.
The easier Taiwan makes it for outsiders to form roots in country the easier it is for Taiwan to ask for acceptance into global markets and organisations. The argument becomes, look Europe, America etc we have xyz of your citizens and we treat them great, look at letting us join. Taiwan is shooting their future in the foot by kowtowing themselves to the wants of others. Yes I know Taiwan is playing safe. How safe is too safe? Where are the negatives too great?
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That’s not really how it works though. Taiwan’s importance to the US and Europe is based on the China situation.
Realistically (or cynically if you choose), you could say that Taiwan is a pawn as far as the US is concerned. Even if there were 0 Americans living here, the US would pay attention to Taiwan because it’s a wedge that can be used against China. And it could also become a liability as well.
Under Trump, the US wasn’t pushing closer trade and defense ties with Taiwan based on an analysis of how Americans living in Taiwan were being treated. It was pushing closer trade and defense ties with Taiwan because it was in the US strategic interest in the region to do so.
If you’re American, you just show up and you get a visa upon arrival and with even a cursory amount of leg work you can find a teaching gig within a short time that pays enough to pay the bills, even if underqualified. How much easier would you reasonably expect them to make it for you? I guess they could give you houses for a buck like that one Italian province…
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We lucky no body force you to know mandarin or Taiwanese for work in Taiwan,
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Not only that, Taiwan was incredibly accommodating to visa runners. Some posters here said they’d been doing them for years without ever being questioned.
Good luck doing that in many SE Asian countries. Thailand, for instance, cracked down on these big time.
Finally, in terms of housing, pre-pandemic, many landlords would rent to foreigners on standard terms (2 months deposit, 1 year lease, no guarantor) even without an ARC. Compare that to other countries in the region, like Japan.
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I was about to type that as well. Limitless visa runs with no questions asked.
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You are talking defensive issues. I’m talking about political and social issues. The two are linked and also issues that can be addressed individually.
Why though? If outsiders wanted to come here in large numbers there would be no need.
The defense issue is political and realistically, it’s the primary reason Taiwan is important on the world stage.
The point remains that if Taiwan treated foreigners “better”, it’s not fundamentally going to change the calculus for Taiwan’s inclusion in international bodies, trade deals, etc.
That’d be sweet. I’d like a dollar house in Xinyi please
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