Is there life (for my bank account) after ARC?

Hi!

I’m leaving Taiwan at the end of August. I currently have an ARC, that I used to open my bank account at HuaNan. I even know it works overseas, since when I took a holiday in SA I could draw money from my HuaNan account. However, considering that you can’t, it seems, open a bank account w/o an ARC these days, I’d like to know if my account will be prejudiced when I leave, and wether I’d be taking a risk leaving some money here?

Why do I want to keep my Taiwanese account? Well, 2 reasons, firstly I’m planning on touring in China before I go home, but after I leave Taiwan. I would like to use my Taiwanese account then. I guess I could transfer the money to SA, but I’d be paying international commision twice… Secondly, I might well come back at some stage, though I don’t have any definite plans right now.

OK, thanks for your time
Neilen

hi, you probably have never been to China from the looks of your message. Most Taiwanese banks do not as yet have full banking license in China. They only have “representative offices”. You will find some unnecessary hassle trying to draw money through them. A credit card from any other local or overseas bank would have less problem but costly. China is waiting for Taiwan to return its favour by allowing Chinese banks to establish some sort of representation in Taiwan. With Chan Sui Bian’s govt, things does not look like it will happen soon.

For your purposes I think the best bet is to open an account with a huge international bank in Hong Kong. I would suggest HSBC. The reason for this is you can draw money from HSBC quite easily in most major cities of the world and esp China eg. Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen etc… HSBC also has its back office operations in China/shanghai and Shenzhen… nowadays so its presence in China is more widespread than any other foreign bank.

To open an account with HSBC in Hong Kong, you only need a passport and an exisitng bank account holder who can act as sponsor. You do not need to be a permanent resident of Hong Kong. Also HSBC has very good access via the Internet,http://www.hsbc.com.hk/script/hk/home.asp in China and their site is of course accessible from most cities or most places in the world where there is access to the Internet.

Also Hong Kong does not restrict the amount of money a foreigner can bring in or out unlike some countries like Taiwan so that is also the other reason why I suggest you open your account in Hong Kong on your way perhaps to China.

HSBC also has a branch in SA and you can instruct the Bank Manager there to open an account for you in Hong Kong from SA if you already have an account with them there before you arrive in HK. When you get here you just need to make a few signatures. There is no minimum requirement but best to have at least half a million HK dollars if you want to avoid unnecessary bank charges. Otherwise the bank charges are currently only around HK$10 HK dollars per month which is peanuts really. :laughing:

Anyway, that’s all. I work with some Taiwanese people who are exporting stuff from China in Guangdong province near Hong Kong. Some of the reasons they would like to maintain a Taiwanese bank account is because the money from their exports goes directly into Taiwan and is not traceable from China. Also some trade are strictly not of the actual goods that they make in their factories, sort of under the table if you will! Also being big exporters, and permanent home in Taiwan etc they can get very good credit, low interest loans, flexible bank charges, someone that understands their business etc…

But from the point of view of a single person travelling around China, I really don’t think a Taiwanese bank account would be better than a Hong Kong one, even if you should decide to carry on some form of China trade/business subsequently. I think the HK bank account is just as flexible or better than any Taiwan can offer just now.

Drambuie, thanks for the info!

[quote]To open an account with HSBC in Hong Kong, you only need a passport and an exisitng bank account holder who can act as sponsor. You do not need to be a permanent resident of Hong Kong.
[/quote]

What exactly does this mean? That I need to know someone who has an HSBC account who can sponsor me? I glanced at their website, and did not see any such requirement, but I could easily have missed it…

Thanks
Neilen

Yes it’s true… I opeed an account with HSBC some years back and they needed a local who would sign a form for you… it’s the bank’s policy.

Regards

Hmm, OK, so where does one find a willing local? Assuming you can’t, are there any other options? Man, a weird requirement.

Thanks
Neilen

hi again,

The idea behind the sponsorship is really a security reason. You can go right ahead and open a “savings” account without anybody else vouching that you are an “OK” person. ie. You have always been on the right side of the law, you’re a person of integrity etc… because with a savings account, the bank is obligated only to give you back the money deposited by you earlier. You can also have an ATM card with this sort of basic account which means you can withdraw you money also at most ATM outlets in China at all hours.

I assumed that you wanted a full checking account rather than just the ability to withdraw money you had previously deposited and perhaps even enjoy other “luxuries”, which will definitely require some form of sponsor; and in HSBC speak, that is either a PowerVantage or a Premier Account, which in turn means that you will not only have just a checking facility but you might have credit cards and both clean and secure overdraft limits,and margin for stocks etc…etc. attached to a single all-in-one mulitcurrency checking account.

The only way that the Bank or any bank really, is going to trust a complete stranger with all this many “facilities” and with only a preliminary check to his/her background, is if a reliable sponsor is “present” and the sponsor helps out alot in this respect.

With a person of decent background who has had a long relationship with the bank the whole process gets done much quicker because he/she could vouch for your integrity etc. It does not actually have to be an existing account holder, but anyone with good repute/no previous criminal record will do.

(Alternatively) If you open an account in SA with HSBC, where I assume you have lots of friends/relatives the bank manager of HSBC-SA is good enough to vouch for your “integrity” to open a subsequent account in Hong Kong or actually anywhere else for that matter.

Although Hong Kong is one of the “freeist” banking environment in the world, and it is hoping to be something like the “Switzerland” of the Far East,(ask no questions, say as little as possible about our client) we still qet our share of shady characters from time to time.

I remember just a few years ago or especially during the Marcos years, we get quite a few Philipinoes flying in and depositing several million HK dollars at a time or in one shot, and then supplying very little background or a dependable identification and then just flying away the very next day or week or then immediately going on shopping trips to use up most of the money etc. Much later the police finds out that the money has dubious origins etc… or the whole case end up as some form of money laundering scheme but the culprit is never found in Philipines. So if you ARE a Philipino, even a sponsor might not get you an account on the first day.

Nowadays the threat is probably from the Islamic sector, probably an undercover AL Quaida operative lookalike? - masquerading as a China businessman, trying to import SA Abalone as a front, but really trying to reach the border to Parkistan with Chinese made bombs etc…

By the way if you are really from SA, take a look at the Abalone business when you are back home. I hear that it is a roaring business, and China just can’t get enough of that stuff. :slight_smile: Any HK exporter to China does not have to pay any tax. So the canning can be done in SA, the “value-added” bit can be done in Hong Kong ie the labelling.

HSBC is a very major reputable bank of course, so you expect some form of customer “vetting”. Give the manager of HSBC SA a phone call and ask him what he can do for you. At the end of the day most bank just want your money.

The other reason I suggested HSBC was because HSBC has a very good Health insurance scheme for China “travellers”. You know how in China when you are hurt (in an accident) or ill, they generally want to see your money/credit card first before “laying any finger” on you. Well with so many people from Hong Kong and foreigners now working in Shanghai/Beijing and various other places, a heath protection scheme was just absolutely essential.

Usually if you are going for a few weeks to any third world country, the normal travel insurance is just fine but this gets a bit expensive if you are stretching it to months and months or you are making frequent “in and out” trips or when you can’t afford to be flown back to Hong Kong just to treat a minor cut or flu etc.

Also of course HSBC can now (since April) take Reminbi deposits, which means that in your multi-currency checking account you could have Reminbi, the SA Rand, the US dollar, or Swiss Francs etc all alongside the Hong Kong dollar. You don’t have to “get rid” of your Chinese Reminbi or the Chinese Yuan, the very moment you leave China, like you would probably do with other currencies on a holiday, but you can actually keep it in an account. This way you can also bring a lot of money into China instead of the amount travellers usually carry in with traveller cheques or cash.

The other thing is of course is you can trade Foreign Currencies, with your HSBC account just like a forex trader. You can instruct the bank to buy Aussie dollars, or sell at a certain price or time ,so you don’t have to keep taking losses as the US dollars drops etc.

:rainbow: :slight_smile:

Note that Hua Nan Bank restricts the client as follows (whether local or abroad):

  1. Number of transactions/cash withdrawals local/international not to exceed 30, whereafter the client will have to take the passbook to any Hua Nan Bank to print out the statement, and thus reactivate your withdrawal capacity. (You could leave your passbook in Taiwan with a trusted friend for the above purpose).

  2. If the amount for cash withdrawals exceed NT$300 000, the above procedure applies.

  3. The client is limited to a cash withdrawal of NT$100 000 per day.

May the day be profitable.

Drambuie!

Thanks for the useful info. You really seem to know banking :slight_smile: I think for now, a savings account is all I need. I’ll try to get more, since it’s nice to have, but my current requirements are met by a savings account. Do you think I could open these accounts from Taiwan?

Thanks
Neilen

Costes,

thanks for the info. In fact, I’ve lost my passbook… Oh well.

Cheers
Neilen

If you’re going to travel around in China outside of the major cities (Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou) and head into areas like Dali/Lijiang or Yangshuo, you might want to consider bringing travelers checks. There are plenty of ATMs outside of the big cities, but only Bank of China’s ATMs can access international banks and that can be spotty at best.

At least so I found when I went to those place a couple of years ago.

Ali, is correct, and if you are going into the more rural areas then an overseas ATM card may not work at all irregardless of which bank’s ATM you try using.

[quote]Do you think I could open these accounts from Taiwan?
[/quote]

Maybe. But for savings account you must stipulate the base currency. And your choice of currency affects how much it costs to remit funds afterwards from your home currency:
I think best to open the account in a stable base currency like HKD or in US dollars which is the most common alternative. In HK you can open in many other currencies including the reminbi RMB. If you do it in Taiwan it is likely to be restricted to Taiwan Dollars only as Taiwan may not be that free or advanced. If the USD option is a given then in that case USD
is preferable to NT$.

Why would you want to open it in Hong Kong as opposed to in Taiwan?
a) Hong Kong banking laws are much “freer” than Taiwan’s
Even if it is the same bank you have chosen, the HSBC-Taiwan has to work under Taiwanese laws and Taiwan’s Central Bank. Hong Kong laws are bi-lingual English/Chinese and common law based. Do you read much Chinese at all?
b) Hong Kong dollar is more or less pegged to the USD so what you essentially get is a currency which is more stable and more inter-changeable than the Taiwan Dollar. Therefore when it comes
to remitting funds into your account from abroad from say another
currency like the SA Rand, the costs will be less if you are remitting into
a USD/HKD account than if you intend the same account to be in NT$ in which case like most Taiwan exporters it is a “2 step” process. First change it from the buyer’s currency into USD, then change it into Taiwan dollars. You will find the remittance costs is more because of wider cross rate spreads.

If you going to remote locations in China, best to take lots of cash. I still think BOC screens/BOC usability in general are for people who have spent years learning to read Chinese like aliderbac. You must also have mastered simplified characters. Sorry I have a low opinion of BOC as an “international” bank even in Hong Kong where BOC has more branches than any other bank. it is large, it is unwieldy, and probably beats any Chinese bank on costs but at what price? Have you ever spoken to anyone at BOC in English before? :slight_smile:

Hi Drambuie!

I concated HSBC HK about opening an account, and it seems they have the reference requirement even for a savings account. However, you can also get a letter of reference from your bank.

[quote]To comply with a new directive from the Hong Kong Monetary Authority, for new customer, we must now only consider opening accounts for customers who apply in person. Meanwhile, customers are required to bring along with the following documents when approaching our branches in Hong Kong:

  • Valid identification document (passport or HKID card)
  • Valid address proof (e.g showing utility bill or bank statement)
  • An introducer (an introducer has to be our customer with relationship more than a year) or introduction letter from your existing banker
  • an employment letter or a bank reference letter
  • initial deposit depending on the account type to be opened e.g. HKD 500 for HKD Passbook savings

As a general reminder, please note that the acceptance of new account application is subject to the Bank’s assessment and discretion in compliance with our internal guidelines. [/quote]

About the abolone… Illegal abolone harvesting is in fact a huge problem in SA, and seems to be spearheaded by Chinese organised criminals. I don’t know if its improved much, but just before I left SA (about 18 months ago) a couple of high-profile arrests were made.

Actually the whole affair is quite complicated Firstly, it really is a problem since the abolone is being over-harvested, which means the resource might in fact be destroyed. The other problem is a goverment blunder, in that they, for some reason, assigned almost all the commercial fishing quota to a couple of big companies, leaving many private boat-owners in coastal towns with no employment… Which made them amenable to partaking in illegal abalone fishing. In short, I don’t think I have enough guns to enter the abalone industry :wink:

Current indications are that you’ll fetch the equivalent of R800 per kilo abalone in Japan. I will not inspire…