Israel, or more specifically, Obama and Israel

This topic is rather new to me and I am afraid I have not much to contribute, think of me as a blank slate in need of an education.
I was recently exposed to a large group of Israelis on holiday who were very disappointed that McCain didn’t win, and they made no bones about the fact that they thought he was a Muslim.
I also have some awesome Israeli friends who are long-term expats, and as such, are about of out of touch with the pulse of their countrymen as we all are. Just putting this out there so you don’t think I am tarring everyone with the same brush, I doubt the small group of holiday-goers I met represent all of Israel either.
I was really surprised by their hatred of Obama and not pleasantly. It shocked me, actually.
I wonder how much of Europe’s hatred of Americans has to do with America’s support of Israel. I wonder how much terrorism in Europe would not have happened if it were not for America’s support of Israel. I wonder if America should just let Israel fend for themselves and not support them at all.
I was also not happy wiith the way Israeli holiday-makers ordered around the locals who were being polite even in the face of their demands and rudeness and it did not endear them to me.
Intelligent and knowledgeable people, please give me an education? What’s up with Israel and Israelis and where do you stand on their politics?

That’s the first I’ve ever heard someone allege that McCain was a Muslim. It makes sense, though. The whole “white American hero” thing was just a subterfuge! :laughing:

Seriously, though you shouldn’t be that surprised. If one is a Jew because of one’s ancestry and not beliefs, than it makes sense that they would view Obama, the son of a Muslim, in a similar way.

I don’t see a connection, to be honest. I didn’t even know that Europeans hated Americans - my folks go there every summer, and they don’t wear maple leafs on their backs, so it’s fair to assume that many Europeans would mistake them for Americans. My folks have a great time every summer. :idunno: And America has a lot to gain by their relationship with Israel - for one thing, Israelis have a pretty awesome intelligence agency, and they can also be counted on to bomb the living heck out of Iran if they ever get nuclear. That helps the US in terms of outsourcing their wet work.

I’ve seen this too, especially with young guys that have just finished their military service. Tons of testosterone and a healthy dose of arrogance. I’ve lived in Israel for three months and never noticed this character trait in the people. I’ve always assumed it was just a “young turk” thing.


I read it as if trebuchet forgot to say, they thought O was a Muslim…:idunno:

Yes, I got that, too.

I was really surprised by their hatred of Obama and not pleasantly. It shocked me, actually. [/quote]
I don’t think Obama is a Muslim. However, he has had longstanding associations with a lot of pro-Palestinian people. Most Israelis are aware of this and this could explain their distrust of him. Remember most Israelis have lost a relative or close friend as a result of terrorism and/or wars.

However, I would argue that the political class will get along with Obama, at least at the beginning. Even Likud’s Bibi reportedly gets along well with Obama on a personal level.

Anti-Semitism has always been endemic amongst Europe’s political class. Whether it is 1108 or 2008, the corridors of power in Europe are full of Anti-Semites. Not much has changed in 1000 years.

Me thinks you’ve been reading Spook’s posts too much. :laughing: :smiling_imp: Not support a democratic state in a sea of dictators and monarchs? What kind of message would that send? You want to revert to the US Paleo Buchanism of the far right and left?

You get pushy people from any country, race, and/or religion. I personally love the bluntness of the “Sabra”. It sure beats dealing with “face” cultures, where you don’t really know what people are thinking about you. Better to get things out in the open IMHO.

I’m hoping Bibi wins the elections next year :bravo:

Israel is America’s sacred cow, its moral blind spot placed beyond all criticism because of the very real anti-semitism of the past as it engages in its own ‘two wrongs make a right’ injustices of the present.

Some European “anti-semitism” at work:


As a protest at the months long Israeli blockade, a boat carrying European politicians docked in Gaza over the weekend. Former British cabinet minister Claire Short was among the passengers.

“This is brutal, deliberate collective punishment,” she told us on a mobile phone from southern Gaza.

“It is in breach of Geneva Conventions, and the United Kingdom and European Union are colluding in it with their silence. Israel is trying to batter and beat a whole people just to crush Hamas.”

“Gaza’s a prison,” said Baroness Jenny Tonge, who had also arrived on the boat from Cyprus.

“We’ve seen shortages of absolutely everything. The schools don’t have paper, the hospitals don’t have medicines. We’ve just been shown some of the tunnels to Egypt which have had to be dug to get badly needed supplies,” she added. [/quote]


I read it as if trebuchet forgot to say, they thought O was a Muslim…:idunno:[/quote]

Yeah, it was a mistake. I meant to say that most Israelis I met thought not just that Obama was a Muslim, but believed that he was a fire-breathing, monsterous variety of Muslim. If Americans had been as fooled by that crazy “Obama is a Muslim” propaganda that we’ve all seen and not taken seriously as the Israelis I’d met were, McCain would be in office now. They bought it hook, line, and sinker, and it was pretty frightening. Mercifully, they listened when I reasoned with them.

Chewy, you make some excellent points. I really don’t have much to say because the topic is so new to me. I’ll be watching this thread and hopefully I’ll have something so say as it progresses.