It could happen here

Frontline has a video stream about the Tiananmen tank man. Something to think about as we watch Lian Chan kissing Hu’s ass in Beijing.

Nothing so dramatic will ever happen here. What you will see over the next 20 years is Taiwan slowly “melting” into the PRC. I happened to be talking with a prosecutor from the “outer islands” (e.g. Kinmen and Matsu) and he was telling me those places have already kind of become hybrid ROC-PRC governments. You will see the same thing slowly happening on the main island too. It will first occur in the south (which is kind of an irony in that the south is considered big “rah, rah, go Taiwan independence” land but that is largely DPP hype) and “melt” northward.

Also too I was talking with an in-house attorney for one of the larger Taiwanese firms. He was telling me that for all intents and purposes their working view is that Taiwan is “semi-seamlessly” tied in with the PRC from a business law view.

So no Life Magazine classic cover photos like the tankman are likely to come out of the Taiwan-Fukien merger. It really is past time for the spittle spewing dingbats (both foreigners and locals) to shut up and start working on the specifics of how to best position Taiwan in the “melt-together” back to China.

p.s. I do not think the PRC is some wonderbar place. Although in the days of my youth I did have my official Little Red Book I, as an adult, realize the PRC is one fucked up place—but be that as it may Taiwan’s reunification is a done deal. The only question before us is the terms and conditions.

spittle spewing dingbats [/quote]
:bravo: :laughing:
What a classic rejoinder! I shall reccommend this for one of the forumosa posting titles that we all get below our avatar.

But to get back on topic. I can appeciate your realpolitik angle on this issue. I found your comments about the strait islands to be of particular interest.

As is usual in many social spheres, politics (and all it’s ideological baggage) is often the lap-dog of pure economics.

And one would think that Taiwan is a place where $$$ are the essence of life . And that’s not necessarily a bad thing, I would posit.

Is this a sincere statement? Do you really think that Taiwanese care only about money or are you just trying to be provocative?

Is this a sincere statement? Do you really think that Taiwanese care only about money or are you just trying to be provocative?[/quote]

It’s fairly sincere. While it’s a broad sweeping statement, and perhaps a wee bit provocative, I do think that Taiwan is the land of the small c capitalist. Heck, I’m one myself. So are most of my foreigner & taiwanese friends alike. That’s why i posit that it’s not such a bad thing.

I like being able to barter. I like going to the same breakfast store for 5 years, and the laoban lets me run a tab. And even barter on that tab. I love Hakka tradesfolk, who do great work, at reasonable (& barterable) prices. I like the street vendors & the night-markets. All small c capitalists.

I believe Taiwan can compete with, but not necessarily against, China. And I think that’s because they care about money. Not only about such, but alot about such. And such an island of small c-capitalists could end being {for lack of a better metaphor} the Jewel in China’s crown. But of course all this will happen long after we’ll all dead.

I often wonder what kind of Taiwan will be there for my son in the year 2020… after all, he’s a pretty good barterer himself. :slight_smile:

I don’t know what any of this means. By “compete with” you mean “cooperate with”? And would that far-off China in the misty future be democratic or authoritarian? Or don’t you care as long as people are still making money?

The point of the original post is that Lian is helping people who have blood on their hands undermine the political system of his own country. An obvious point but well worth repeating. Hu and the KMT are getting ready for Ma’s win in 2008, at which point – well, who knows, but 2008 is right around the corner.

You’re struggling to understand the description that the “Taiwanese care only about $$$” because of your own limited world-view. Apologies for the cliches, but you really need to think outside of the box, climb up out of the well, etc.

For example, you’ve described Lien Chan as “undermining his own political system” by dealing with a regime “with blood on its hands”.

The Taiwanese laobaixing would rightly recognize that the current PRC government has far less blood on its hands than some of Taiwan’s other closest allies/protectors. Most importantly, the PRC’s actions over the past 2 decades is clearly mostly motivated by the quest to build long-term, lasting wealth and prosperity. This is an easy enough ideology to understand, really… unless you happen to still be stuck in the cold war, when wealth and prosperity for one side implied loss and destruction for the other.

In my view, the Chinese/Taiwanese are very much a meritocracy-driven people. We aren’t impressed by internal moral righteousness; we aren’t judged by a distant St. Peter at the end of our lives. No, we’re judged for our achivements, and by our competency every day of our lives.

If we achieve through our own skills and efforts, whether it is in the realm of academics or economics, then we deserve respect and emulation. No one brags about the strength of their moral compass and determination on political issues. Instead, we’re working on getting another degree and/or making as much money as we can possibly manage. This is why our parents brag about our achievements, and why we will likely brag about our children’s achievements. This is why our children spend an insane amount of time improving themselves academically.

This is what it means to “care only about $$$”. It’s a belief that the ideal government does not exist in the form of a political document. After all, aren’t there numerous democratic governments without blood on their hands that have achieved nothing? That have left their people impoverished, ignorant, and dying of disease?

The ideal government is one which ultimately gives her people the opportunity to thrive, and to prosper. This is why the Taiwanese respect the United States: they don’t gain respect because of the Bill of Rights, nor do they lose it because of Abu Gharib… they keep respect because of its GDP, period.

Is it any surprise, then, that the Taiwanese show growing tolerance of the Beijing government of the People’s Republic of China?

Please explain.

Please explain.[/quote]

Please explain this too!

Could we derive from that statement that you think the deaths of over 60 million Chinese were necessary for the CCP’s excruciatingly slow progression today?

While you’re highlighting the positives, like Shanghai, you’re totally ignoring the huge 2/3rds majority of China; the rural poor. Don’t forget, health care, civil rights, and human rights, have gotten even worse there in the last 20 years. Is your justification then that “its worth it, and Democracy is trash” simply because life is somewhat better in China? Because you believe that ONLY the CCP can bring China into its former glory?