Japanese Porn and its effect on society

[Moderator’s note: Thread split from [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/taiwan-kiddies-and-stranger-danger/14510/32 THREAD[/url]]

[quote=“Flicka”][quote=“ImaniOU”]

Sure Taiwan doesn’t have the same frequency of crimes against children as many industrialized countries. [/quote]

I am not so sure about this.[/quote]

Well, at least they’re not selling the used underwear of Xiao didi’s and Xiao meimei’s out of vending machines yet, unlike Japan … yet … :noway:

Well just because someone says it’s used kids underwear doesn’t make it so but unlike the U.S. (were pretending is a crime) obviously in Japan people know the difference between real and pretend.[/quote]

Haha … yeah, that’s why the incidence of rapes in Japan is so high … it couldn’t possibly be because of all of the rape and SM porn films that Japanese men love to watch, and the large number of kiddy porn films that come out of Japan as well … they know the difference between real and pretend, huh? :unamused: But I’m sure this kind of phenomenon is also America’s fault …

I love Japanese culture, have studied the language and literature, and done research on its sexual culture as well. By today’s standards (and I stress from our modern Western perception), their sexual appetites certainly border on the “bizarre” and sometimes quite cruel and violent.

Well just because someone says it’s used kids underwear doesn’t make it so but unlike the U.S. (were pretending is a crime) obviously in Japan people know the difference between real and pretend.[/quote]

Haha … yeah, that’s why the incidence of rapes in Japan is so high … it couldn’t possibly be because of all of the rape and SM porn films that Japanese men love to watch, and the large number of kiddy porn films that come out of Japan as well … they know the difference between real and pretend, huh? :unamused: But I’m sure this kind of phenomenon is also America’s fault …

I love Japanese culture, have studied the language and literature, and done research on its sexual culture as well. By today’s standards (and I stress from our modern Western perception), their sexual appetites certainly border on the “bizarre” and sometimes quite cruel and violent.[/quote]
Strange the experts seem to disagree with you for some reason…perhaps you could share your research with us.

[quote]Our findings regarding sex crimes, murder and assault are in keeping with what is also known about general crime rates in Japan regarding burglary, theft and such. Japan has the lowest number of reported rape cases and the highest percentage of arrests and convictions in reported cases of any developed nation. Indeed Japan is known as one of the safest developed countries for women in the world (Clifford, 1980).
Despite the absence of evidence, the myth persists that an abundance of sexual explicit material invariably leads to an abundance of sexual activity and eventually rape (e.g., Liebert, Neale, & Davison, 1973). Indeed, the data we report and review suggests the opposite. [/quote]

hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcl … pe_jp.html

Vannyel, having lived in Asia for so long I thought that you would have known more about Confucian-based cultures. The statistics you quote are reported rapes. It’s still taboo in Japan and other Confucian-based societies to report rape, where the women are often ostracized by their peers, parents, friends, etc. If a woman has been raped, she is usually seen as unfit for marriage. These kinds of social stigmas naturally would reduce the rate of reported sexual crimes. But from your postings I can tell that you think Asia is the last vestige of peace and morality in the world, and America is just the anti-Christ … :unamused:

How about this link on the dramatic rise in internet-related sex crimes in Japan?

nua.com/surveys/index.cgi?f= … 9&rel=true

Here are some anecdotal reports and information from a web forum:

forum.japantoday.com/Rape_in_jap … 134/tm.htm

Here’s some interesting information on the sex trade, prostitution, and pornography:

uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/japan.htm

But no matter what I post, you’ll still figure out some way in your mind to ignore it or turn it into a personal attack on me which you usually do, so if you want to continue believing that Japan is such a safe country that respects women, children and their rights, keep right ahead on doing so …

[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”]
But no matter what I post, you’ll still figure out some way in your mind to ignore it or turn it into a personal attack on me which you usually do…[/quote]
And aren’t you doing the same thing?
BTW…reported information is all that we can rely on…hearsay and such is not very reliable.
And not just Japan but other countries where pornography is more available than the U.S. also show less incidence of rape. So it’s not just a cultural thing.

[quote=“Vannyel”]And aren’t you doing the same thing?
BTW…reported information is all that we can rely on…hearsay and such is not very reliable.
And not just Japan but other countries where pornography is more available than the U.S. also show less incidence of rape. So it’s not just a cultural thing.[/quote]

No, I’m not, because I’ve actually researched these phenomenon extensively. As for “reported information,” would you say that the incidence of HIV/AIDs in Taiwan is as low as the government would lead you to believe? Of course not … because those are reported cases, and anyone with the slightest knowledge of Taiwanese society knows that most people do not even go to get tested because they know of the social stigmas surrounding HIV/AIDS in Taiwan, and they know that they would be ostracized by their family and community.

And trying to compare sexual attitudes and propensities in Japan and the West is like comparing apples and oranges. Completely different attitudes towards sex and what is acceptable, what constitutes crossing the line into criminal behavior, etc.

[quote=“Vannyel”][quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”][quote=“Vannyel”]And aren’t you doing the same thing?
BTW…reported information is all that we can rely on…hearsay and such is not very reliable.
And not just Japan but other countries where pornography is more available than the U.S. also show less incidence of rape. So it’s not just a cultural thing.[/quote]

No, I’m not, because I’ve actually researched these phenomenon extensively. As for “reported information,” would you say that the incidence of HIV/AIDs in Taiwan is as low as the government would lead you to believe? Of course not … because those are reported cases, and anyone with the slightest knowledge of Taiwanese society knows that most people do not even go to get tested because they know of the social stigmas surrounding HIV/AIDS in Taiwan, and they know that they would be ostracized by their family and community.

And trying to compare sexual attitudes and propensities in Japan and the West is like comparing apples and oranges. Completely different attitudes towards sex and what is acceptable, what constitutes crossing the line into criminal behavior, etc.[/quote]

Did I not welcome you to post your extensive rearch into this matter when I said

I really would love to see it and be able to follow your sources. So far all I have been able to find from what you posted was not very helpful - one BBC article, a discussion group of foreigners bashing Japan and speculating, and one link that does not work isn’t very helpful.
FYI, I too have had an interest in Japan and while a graduate student at the university I did extensive research into the relationship between pornograpy and sex crimes. Unfortunately during my research, I found the relationship tenuous at best - I loved the one about how most men in prison for sex crimes had been exposed to pornography. The real kicker came when the definition of pornography included the underwear section of the Sears catalog!
If I can find this paper I will see if I can send it to you but it might take a few days.
As a serious researcher, I do tend to disregard things not published by reliable sources, hearsay, built-in speculation, etc.
Sure you can say the probable cases of HIV are higher in Taiwan because people don’t get tested (just like any other country in the world) and you can even speculate they are a great deal higher BUT without testing everyone in the country it is still speculation.
When given the choice between a forum where people speculation why sex abuse is so high in Japan, and professionally researched papers saying their is a negative corelation between sex abuse and the incidence of pornography in the country - sorry I will always chose the professionally researched papers.
As I said before, I welcome the chance to read your extensive research.[/quote]
Another source of mine
PORNOGRAPHY, SEX CRIME, AND PUBLIC POLICY
Berl Kutchinsky Professor of Criminology
Institute of Criminology and Criminal Science
University of Copenhagen
Denmark

[quote]
The aggregate data on rape and other violent or sexual offences from four countries where pornography, including aggressive varieties, has become widely and easily available during the period we have dealt with would seem to exclude, beyond any reasonable doubt, that this availability has had any detrimental effects in the form of increased sexual violence. The data from West Germany is striking since here, the only increase in sexual violence takes place in the form which includes the least serious forms of sexual coercion and where there may have been increases in reporting frequency. As far as the other forms of sexual violence are concerned, the remarkable fact is that they decreased the more so, the more serious the offence.This finding is not so strange. Most other research data we have about pornography and rape suggest that the link between them is more than weak. Our knowledge about the contents, the uses and the users of pornography suggests that pornography does not represent a blueprint for rape, but is essentially an aphrodisiac, that is, food for the sexual fantasy of persons --mostly males–who like to masturbate.[/quote] Bolds, mine.
aic.gov.au/publications/proc … hinsky.pdf
edited to add:

Therefore what you consider perversion and crimminal behavior is acceptable in Japan, so in at least this we agree.
I never was judging them on crimminal behavior nor by western standards.
Consider this – if you convince (talk them into with persuasion) someone to have sex with you in the U.S. and then they have regrets afterwards you can be charged with rape; however, in most of Asia if you don’t attempt to convince them they think you are not really interested.

And where to we glean this knowledge…from government reports, official research, or those we meet.
As for those we meet, have you ever considered the fact that most foreigners only meet those Taiwanese interested in interacting with foreigners…that leaves about 22 million unaccounted for. Since testing is anonymous I can’t see how there can be social stigma attached to being tested. Although I have never accompanied anyone to be tested, based on self-reporting (and we know how reliable that is!) every guy I have ever dated in Taiwan has been tested along with most of their friends and I believe employment physicals for Taiwanese require testing for HIV, although I may be wrong.

My main contention is that pornography doesn’t lead to rape nor does selling ‘used’ underwear.

Most people with any pesonal experience with Japanese culture will tell you that there certainly seems to be a lot of perversion there. Perversion of the sadomasochistic variety. And the pornos that come on after UFC (channel 80) seem to substantiate this. In one that I saw the guy couldn’t finish off with the usual splork to the face so he took a bit of a piss instead. You gotta be nuts if you don’t think that is a sick society.

OK bob, I’ll bite – how much is ‘any’? How long do I have to study Japanese, how long do I have to live there, how many Japanese people do I need to know, before I am qualified to talk about it??
BTW…have you ever noticed how TV doesn’t reflect the real world…weren’t you the one talking about Sex in the City or is it Sex and the City…I never know. :blush:
You will notice the professor I cited for LittleBuddhaTW said most of this pornographic material serves as an aid to masturbation and as far as I know what a man thinks while he is enjoying himself isn’t a crime nor should it be something to judge him by…it’s when it crosses the line into illegal behavior that we have to worry.

But the crime is committed when they make the video. They get young girls and pay them to be degraded. It is just sick any way you cut it. Check out some Japanese porno sometime. You will see what I am talking about.

Well just because someone says it’s used kids underwear doesn’t make it so but unlike the U.S. (were pretending is a crime) obviously in Japan people know the difference between real and pretend.[/quote]

Haha … yeah, that’s why the incidence of rapes in Japan is so high … it couldn’t possibly be because of all of the rape and SM porn films that Japanese men love to watch, and the large number of kiddy porn films that come out of Japan as well … they know the difference between real and pretend, huh? :unamused: But I’m sure this kind of phenomenon is also America’s fault …

I love Japanese culture, have studied the language and literature, and done research on its sexual culture as well. By today’s standards (and I stress from our modern Western perception), their sexual appetites certainly border on the “bizarre” and sometimes quite cruel and violent.[/quote]

It is just different values towards the body and sexuality. Prior to World War II, everyone in Japan used to go to the spas together

TTTThhhhhheeeerrrreeeee’ssss nnnoottthhhiinngngn wwrrronmnggg wwwihththththth JJJJJJapapapapapapapnese porrrnn I watch Itttt all theeee timeeee and I am perrrrrrfectlyyyy norrrrmmmmaaalllll.

Japanese pornography is strange. The first half is foreplay, then they get
busy, and the girl puts on a face like she doesn’t like it, and makes squeaking noises.
Also they’re really into these little vibrating egg things. And lots of
bondage and rape videos.

So, the audience for these things is men. If this is what floats their
boat, their culture seems unhealthy to me. An interesting critique
of just about every aspect of Japanese culture is found in Karel
von Wolferen’s book The Enigma of Japanese Power. My take is that
actually the women have a fair amount of power and that is why the
men would like this fantasy where the little vibrator machine subdues
the woman, or failing that, tie her up, or rape her.

It also seems that Taiwan may still have a hangover from 50 years
of Japanese rule, though I suppose its been somewhat diluted by
the influx of Chinese after the Japanese left.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

You wattttttttch itttttttt on ttttttttthe computtttttttter I suppose?

bob, I have seen 20 year old women that look 13…are you telling me their looks makes it a crime. I am sorry but I don’t agree with the U.S. definition of kiddy porn, where anyone who has porn depicting someone younger than 18 is in possession of kiddy porn, that is rediculous in my book. They are either kids (under 18) or not…what they look like isn’t the point (legally). No one is exploiting a 25 year old who looks like a 13 year old and wants to be in a porn movie. Damn if I looked 17 or 18 I would be out there trying to exploit myself (like most of these people do), I wouldn’t need help from some pornographer. Hell we created this monster in the West when we started thinking younger (looks, etc.) was better.

Japan does have some of the sickest but most amusing shit around.

Whatever happened to storylines? The plumber and the housewife? The lawnmower kid and the lonely divorcee? The business man and his daughter’s cheerleading friend?

Gee, the world is a’changin…people just don’t appreciate good ol’ fashioned pohno no mo.

What’s up with Taiwanese playing that sick shit on big movie screens in the middle of backalleys and nightmarkets? Where there are little kids running around all over the place? :noway:

“No, that man’s just trying to help the woman clean her face. No, that’s just a special kind of soap. Well, he’s just run out so he had to ask some friends around so she could borrow some more from them.”

Really? Where? You guys always get to see the cool stuff…I have never seen that in Taipei. :unamused:
But on the other hand, if you don’t make it out to be some sick religious prohibition against viewing the naked human body what harm comes to the kids?

First Christ, then paedophilia…whatever else will the Occidents bring next?