Jihad in France Just Beginning

Well, not exactly “just begining” as its been on a roll for the last 15 yrs or so. But its been attracting more and more attention as France, being France, tries to assert its rule of law.

Recently there was a terrible murder case involving a French Muslim named Mohamed Merah. The investigation into this case…

has revealed that…

[quote]"'It was soon revealed that the killer who had just shot four Jews was the same man who had murdered three French soldiers, including two Muslims, the week before. All the commentators ferociously incriminated the « far right.» Anti-racist associations issued statements denouncing « fascist barbarity raising its ugly head again »

"…the man was a French Muslim who had traveled to the mountains of Afghanistan in to train for jihad, Islamic holy war. The police found him, and shot him to death after a rough gunfight.[/quote]

The case has highlighted the rise of anti-Semitiism in France. Which, has increased as the Mohammedan populace of France has risen.
Is there a connection?

The article:

[quote]Jihad in France Just Beginning
The Obin Report showed a deep infiltration by radical Islam into the vast majority of French schools and a vitriolic hatred for Jews. What the Report showed was so alarming that the text was not initially disclosed. Nobody dares to say that more than thirty mosques all over the country broadcast incendiary remarks that have « nothing to do with the teachings of Islam, » and that the same remarks are received daily on television by tens of thousands of Muslims in France through the Arabic version of Al Jazeera.[/quote]

It is interesting how the initial kneejerk reaction was to level blame at the far right wing.

As for an Islamic insurgency in France, I think we still have quite some time afore that comes into full effect.
:beatnik:

All this fear of Islamic people is a bit over the top in Europe. Second generation children will succumb to the dominant culture, and as long as Western culture stays true to the ideals of freedom, democracy and equality it will always trump some bullshit outdated patriarchal nonsense idea of society that Islam extremists have on offer.

These first generation clowns want to bring their medieval Islamic laws to the new world, but the next generation will grow up under Western influence and the vast majority will realize it is a bunch of nonsense and opt to be at worst a moderate Muslim. We won’t see any religious extremism amongst second generation children in any Western country as long as Western countries stay true to their ultimate ideals.

CNN has picked up on this story also:

Muslim radicals plotted jihad in France, prosecutor alleges
(excert)
[i]Radical Muslims detained in France were preparing for holy war, a French prosecutor said Tuesday as the country widens a clamp down on suspected extremists in the wake of a deadly shooting spree last month.

The radical group Forsane Alizza and its founder Mohammed Achamlane were “calling for the establishment of an Islamic caliphate in France and calling for the implementation of Sharia law and inciting Muslims in France to unite for the preparation of a civil war,” Paris prosecutor Francois Molins said Tuesday.[/i]

Of course…this could just be another case of “lawyers talking”…could be…yeah…

They arrested 17, according to the CNN link.

France has a population of about 65 million, 5 million of whom are Muslim.

That represents 0.00034% of the Muslim population of France.

As has been shown time and time again in countries all over the world, Muslim extremists are a very tiny minority who don’t represent the wider Muslim world at all.

I agree, but do us North Americans have the stomach for it?

Sarkozy does. Not sure what is on the horizon for us North Americans. Not worried about the long term, but the next 10-20 years isn’t going to be all that smooth.

Mohammedan % of the French population from a few sources:(keeping in mind there are many variant group under the general “Muslim” title)
All numbers are at least one (1) year old
Wikiwacki:

[quote]France 4,704,000 7.5& of total population as of 2010 Pew estimate
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … population[/quote]

Islam Today website:
en.islamtoday.net/artshow-229-3977.htm
As of 16 Mar 2011 article -
[i]"There are 2.1 million “declared Muslims” aged 18-50 in France, far less than certain estimates advanced in the public debate, according to a new study by the National Institute of Demographic Studies (INED) and the National Institute of Statistics and Economic Studies (INSEE). In France, a country which bans religious or ethnic statistics, it’s usually estimated that there are 5-6 million Muslims.

Sources:
“France: 2.1 Million Muslims (aged 18-50)” Islam in Europe March 16, 2011
“Une étude revoit à la baisse le nombre de musulmans en France” La Croix March 15, 2011"

Euro-Islam.Info website:
euro-islam.info/country-profiles/france/
“There are approximately 3.5-5 million Muslims in France, representing 6.0-8.5 percent of the total population (58.5 million). At least 2 million Muslims have French citizenship.” Using numbers from 1998-1999.

An interesting caveat:
French law forbids distinguishing citizens or residents according to their faith. As a consequence, there is no official statistical data on number of Muslims in France.
And, of course, there is the problem of the high number of illegal alien Muslims in the country. This also hampers an accurate count.
General estimates have the current number at approx. 8.5 - 9.5 %. And rising rapidly with the higher birth rate compared to the European community.
It must also be considered that France has had a colonial presence in many "Islamic countries through-out its history. Migration of these colonials to France and their subsequent integration into society has been very standard for several centuries.

What is happening today is the non-integration of a group defining itself by its “religion” rather by its ethnic or national identity. And the results are coming to light.

Also to be remembered is the Mohammdan social tactic known as Taqiyya…this greatly hampers accurate review.

Yeah, even in Germany people now surprise me by having Muslim words in their vocabulary I have never heard about. They distinguish between the Burkah-thingy (this whole body wrap for women) and anther variant of it as if everybody should now. And other words which seem to refer to some detail of practice of the Islam faith. I did not keep those alien words in mind and certainly do not want to, as I am simply not interested.

[quote=“Deuce Dropper”]All this fear of Islamic people is a bit over the top in Europe. Second generation children will succumb to the dominant culture, and as long as Western culture stays true to the ideals of freedom, democracy and equality it will always trump some bullshit outdated patriarchal nonsense idea of society that Islam extremists have on offer.

These first generation clowns want to bring their medieval Islamic laws to the new world, but the next generation will grow up under Western influence and the vast majority will realize it is a bunch of nonsense and opt to be at worst a moderate Muslim. We won’t see any religious extremism amongst second generation children in any Western country as long as Western countries stay true to their ultimate ideals.[/quote]

That’s not how it happens. Second generation children and others exposed to the West are easily radicalized, especially under the influence of Western democracy. Those exposed to the West are told they are unpure due to that exposure and they feel disconnected from their homelands, native culture, and religion because they may not have even been there. That separation is exploited by terrorist recruiters. Western democracy with its current liberal streak of emphasizing racism, sexism, etc. gives additional tools to the terrorists. Any little thing can be shown as full blown racism by the existing Western culture, giving the terrorists another way to convince potential converts that they will never really fit in or be accepted.

The fact that immigrants often have to struggle when they first arrive is exploited as an argument against Western capitalism. The difficulty their parents dealt with shames second generation Muslims since they have it slightly easier and that shame is also exploited.

The modern Western mainstream media does a great job of telling everyone they’re victims of something and this makes terrorism recruitment even easier. So exposure to Western capitalism often makes the situation worse, not better.

[quote=“Formosa Fitness”][quote=“Deuce Dropper”]All this fear of Islamic people is a bit over the top in Europe. Second generation children will succumb to the dominant culture, and as long as Western culture stays true to the ideals of freedom, democracy and equality it will always trump some bullshit outdated patriarchal nonsense idea of society that Islam extremists have on offer.

These first generation clowns want to bring their medieval Islamic laws to the new world, but the next generation will grow up under Western influence and the vast majority will realize it is a bunch of nonsense and opt to be at worst a moderate Muslim. We won’t see any religious extremism amongst second generation children in any Western country as long as Western countries stay true to their ultimate ideals.[/quote]

That’s not how it happens. Second generation children and others exposed to the West are easily radicalized, especially under the influence of Western democracy. Those exposed to the West are told they are unpure due to that exposure and they feel disconnected from their homelands, native culture, and religion because they may not have even been there. That separation is exploited by terrorist recruiters. Western democracy with its current liberal streak of emphasizing racism, sexism, etc. gives additional tools to the terrorists. Any little thing can be shown as full blown racism by the existing Western culture, giving the terrorists another way to convince potential converts that they will never really fit in or be accepted.

The fact that immigrants often have to struggle when they first arrive is exploited as an argument against Western capitalism. The difficulty their parents dealt with shames second generation Muslims since they have it slightly easier and that shame is also exploited.

The modern Western mainstream media does a great job of telling everyone they’re victims of something and this makes terrorism recruitment even easier. So exposure to Western capitalism often makes the situation worse, not better.[/quote]

I am not really sure if you are talking about reality or an old episode of 24…Most second generation children I have come across generally attend good colleges and do quite well (with their parents demanding excellence in education). Not that many are interested in rebelling against the culture that gave them a better life, and most don’t want to move back to their ‘homeland’ (which is to most nothing more than a place where their grandparents live) and you can say that is doubly true for the women who would rather not be put in a Darth Vader outfit and treated like dogshit.

The reality is, despite the scaremongering, only a tiny fraction of a percentage of Muslims ever become radicalized, so the scenario you are portraying above is such a rare instance that it is basically inconsequential.

[quote]
The reality is, despite the scaremongering, only a tiny fraction of a percentage of Muslims ever become radicalized, so the scenario you are portraying above is such a rare instance that
it is basically inconsequential
.[/quote]
Tell that to NYC, and London, and Bali, Indonesia, and to Pakistan, and Afghanistan, and Israel, and Egypt, and the Netherlands and…

[quote=“Deuce Dropper”]I am not really sure if you are talking about reality or an old episode of 24…Most second generation children I have come across generally attend good colleges and do quite well (with their parents demanding excellence in education). Not that many are interested in rebelling against the culture that gave them a better life, and most don’t want to move back to their ‘homeland’ (which is to most nothing more than a place where their grandparents live) and you can say that is doubly true for the women who would rather not be put in a Darth Vader outfit and treated like dogshit.

The reality is, despite the scaremongering, only a tiny fraction of a percentage of Muslims ever become radicalized, so the scenario you are portraying above is such a rare instance that it is basically inconsequential.[/quote]

No, this is exactly how it happens. You need to read about how AlQaida recruited people to blow up the towers and still recruits people today. The people you’ve met aren’t the whole story.

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote]
The reality is, despite the scaremongering, only a tiny fraction of a percentage of Muslims ever become radicalized, so the scenario you are portraying above is such a rare instance that
it is basically inconsequential
.[/quote]
Tell that to NYC, and London, and Bali, Indonesia, and to Pakistan, and Afghanistan, and Israel, and Egypt, and the Netherlands and…[/quote]

USA - 2.6M Muslims
UK - 2.9M Muslims
Indonesia - 205M Muslims
Pakistan - 178M Muslims
Afghanistan - 29M Muslims
Israel - 1.3M Muslims
Egypt - 80M Muslims
Holland - 0.9M Muslims

When you run the numbers, it is inconsequential, and when you take the politics and the battle for land and resources out of it, it is largely irrelevant.

I am not saying radical Islam is a good thing, I think it is fucking nonsense, but I also think radical anything is fucking nonsense, it preaches fairy tales and stifles progress which is detrimental to everyone.

What is also detrimental is the bullshit fear-mongering that those to the right of center like to trump up so much. Do we really need t view all these Muslims in all the countries you listed as a threat?

No of course not, in the same way we don’t think that all white people are timothy McVeigh or all Christians practice the Westboro Baptist Church style of Christianity.

The vast majority (if not all) of the people involved in the terror acts you listed WERE criminals, and WERE under surveillance or at least on a list with law enforcement agencies, it is not like any random Muslim is going to go out and kill people, these terrorists are largely criminals with political agendas. No different than criminals of any other race, religion or creed.

Acting like every Muslim is a threat is barbaric and goes against every ethic we try to preach in Western society.

You’re saying the numbers are inconsequential. I’m saying their actions most certainly are not. It doesn’t matter that their numbers are small. It does matter that they are able and willing to terrorize thousands and possibly millions of people.

I’m not afraid of serial killers. They represent a fraction of the general population. Their actions are limited to a few people directly around them.

I am somewhat afraid of terrorists, even though they are a fraction of the general population, because they can fly a couple of fucking airplanes into a couple of 90 story buildings and bring them both down killing thousands and affecting millions, if not billions of people.

Fear of terrorists is a right wing thing? REALLY?? Only right wingers fear terrorists? GTFOOH. Deuce, you seem like a genuinely nice guy, but ffs, this kind of outrageous crap you spew…man…it’s just too much. :aiyo:

[quote=“jdsmith”]You’re saying the numbers are inconsequential. I’m saying their actions most certainly are not. It doesn’t matter that their numbers are small. It does matter that they are able and willing to terrorize thousands and possibly millions of people.

I’m not afraid of serial killers. They represent a fraction of the general population. Their actions are limited to a few people directly around them.

I am somewhat afraid of terrorists, even though they are a fraction of the general population, because they can fly a couple of fucking airplanes into a couple of 90 story buildings and bring them both down killing thousands and affecting millions, if not billions of people.

Fear of terrorists is a right wing thing? REALLY?? Only right wingers fear terrorists? GTFOOH. Deuce, you seem like a genuinely nice guy, but ffs, this kind of outrageous crap you spew…man…it’s just too much. :aiyo:[/quote]

Well it wouldn’t be outrageous if you read the actual words instead of feeding your own spin.

I said ‘fear-mongering’ something the right specializes in, and you changed it to ‘fear of terrorists’, a HUGE difference, and you lose your shit in the process, but hey, maybe you can’t read that well? Or, maybe you see red when people disagree with you? I am not really sure, but next time you think I am ‘too much’, read the actual words I write, I can only articulate my opinion by using the words in the context they were meant with the definitions that were given to them, if you choose to take what I said and add other words and meaning to it there really isn’t much I can do, in fact the ball is in your court in this scenario because some people may come to the conclusion that you are losing it.

[quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“jdsmith”]You’re saying the numbers are inconsequential. I’m saying their actions most certainly are not. It doesn’t matter that their numbers are small. It does matter that they are able and willing to terrorize thousands and possibly millions of people.

I’m not afraid of serial killers. They represent a fraction of the general population. Their actions are limited to a few people directly around them.

I am somewhat afraid of terrorists, even though they are a fraction of the general population, because they can fly a couple of fucking airplanes into a couple of 90 story buildings and bring them both down killing thousands and affecting millions, if not billions of people.

Fear of terrorists is a right wing thing? REALLY?? Only right wingers fear terrorists? GTFOOH. Deuce, you seem like a genuinely nice guy, but ffs, this kind of outrageous crap you spew…man…it’s just too much. :aiyo:[/quote]

Well it wouldn’t be outrageous if you read the actual words instead of feeding your own spin.

I said ‘fear-mongering’ something the right specializes in, and you changed it to ‘fear of terrorists’, a HUGE difference, and you lose your shit in the process, but hey, maybe you can’t read that well? Or, maybe you see red when people disagree with you? I am not really sure, but next time you think I am ‘too much’, read the actual words I write, I can only articulate my opinion by using the words in the context they were meant with the definitions that were given to them, if you choose to take what I said and add other words and meaning to it there really isn’t much I can do, in fact the ball is in your court in this scenario because some people may come to the conclusion that you are losing it.[/quote]
OK, man. Whatever. You’re talking about the terrorist element in Muslim communities and arguing that there isn’t a fear of terrorists? What…ever. Please, have another drink and let me know how wrong I am again. :unamused:

[quote=“jdsmith”]
OK, man. Whatever. You’re talking about the terrorist element in Muslim communities and arguing that there isn’t a fear of terrorists? What…ever. Please, have another drink and let me know how wrong I am again. :unamused:[/quote]

Really? Do I need to tell you how you are wrong again? Was my post not clear enough, and as for the cute little bit about the drink, isn’t it the one who is too incoherent to read correctly and making shit up the one who would be drunk? Just curious. I like the way you won’t acknowledge your mistake and keep insulting me, this I am impressed with, because I usually get banned for the crap that you seem to get away with posting, case in point the spam I am quoting.

Regardless of what the cultural norm is in the West, the governments over there can’t get enough of killing foreigners for no good reason whatsoever. I just hope that Middle countries and Eastern countries can forgive us for our murderous governments.

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“jdsmith”]You’re saying the numbers are inconsequential. I’m saying their actions most certainly are not. It doesn’t matter that their numbers are small. It does matter that they are able and willing to terrorize thousands and possibly millions of people.

I’m not afraid of serial killers. They represent a fraction of the general population. Their actions are limited to a few people directly around them.

I am somewhat afraid of terrorists, even though they are a fraction of the general population, because they can fly a couple of fucking airplanes into a couple of 90 story buildings and bring them both down killing thousands and affecting millions, if not billions of people.

Fear of terrorists is a right wing thing? REALLY?? Only right wingers fear terrorists? GTFOOH. Deuce, you seem like a genuinely nice guy, but ffs, this kind of outrageous crap you spew…man…it’s just too much. :aiyo:[/quote]

Well it wouldn’t be outrageous if you read the actual words instead of feeding your own spin.

I said ‘fear-mongering’ something the right specializes in, and you changed it to ‘fear of terrorists’, a HUGE difference, and you lose your shit in the process, but hey, maybe you can’t read that well? Or, maybe you see red when people disagree with you? I am not really sure, but next time you think I am ‘too much’, read the actual words I write, I can only articulate my opinion by using the words in the context they were meant with the definitions that were given to them, if you choose to take what I said and add other words and meaning to it there really isn’t much I can do, in fact the ball is in your court in this scenario because some people may come to the conclusion that you are losing it.[/quote]
OK, man. Whatever. You’re talking about the terrorist element in Muslim communities and arguing that there isn’t a fear of terrorists? What…ever. Please, have another drink and let me know how wrong I am again. :unamused:[/quote]

Hmm, getting interesting here.

I would not say that “fear mongering” is what the right specialize in. I could say that this statement is typical of the left, and often used to shut down debate.

While in many cases there are terrorists under scrutiny by the authorities, they cannot be explained away as mere criminals. Their agenda is totally different.

Certainly not all have been under scrutiny of the authorities. That American Major for one came out of nowhere and I am sure there are many more.

The problem is simple, and I have used this quote before.

All Muslims are certainly not terrorists. Equally true, however, is that the majority of terrorists are Muslim.

This point was made by the former CEO of an Arab news channel.

[quote=“bigduke6”][quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“jdsmith”]You’re saying the numbers are inconsequential. I’m saying their actions most certainly are not. It doesn’t matter that their numbers are small. It does matter that they are able and willing to terrorize thousands and possibly millions of people.

I’m not afraid of serial killers. They represent a fraction of the general population. Their actions are limited to a few people directly around them.

I am somewhat afraid of terrorists, even though they are a fraction of the general population, because they can fly a couple of fucking airplanes into a couple of 90 story buildings and bring them both down killing thousands and affecting millions, if not billions of people.

Fear of terrorists is a right wing thing? REALLY?? Only right wingers fear terrorists? GTFOOH. Deuce, you seem like a genuinely nice guy, but ffs, this kind of outrageous crap you spew…man…it’s just too much. :aiyo:[/quote]

Well it wouldn’t be outrageous if you read the actual words instead of feeding your own spin.

I said ‘fear-mongering’ something the right specializes in, and you changed it to ‘fear of terrorists’, a HUGE difference, and you lose your shit in the process, but hey, maybe you can’t read that well? Or, maybe you see red when people disagree with you? I am not really sure, but next time you think I am ‘too much’, read the actual words I write, I can only articulate my opinion by using the words in the context they were meant with the definitions that were given to them, if you choose to take what I said and add other words and meaning to it there really isn’t much I can do, in fact the ball is in your court in this scenario because some people may come to the conclusion that you are losing it.[/quote]
OK, man. Whatever. You’re talking about the terrorist element in Muslim communities and arguing that there isn’t a fear of terrorists? What…ever. Please, have another drink and let me know how wrong I am again. :unamused:[/quote]

Hmm, getting interesting here.

I would not say that “fear mongering” is what the right specialize in. I could say that this statement is typical of the left, and often used to shut down debate.

While in many cases there are terrorists under scrutiny by the authorities, they cannot be explained away as mere criminals. Their agenda is totally different.

Certainly not all have been under scrutiny of the authorities. That American Major for one came out of nowhere and I am sure there are many more.

The problem is simple, and I have used this quote before.

All Muslims are certainly not terrorists. Equally true, however, is that the majority of terrorists are Muslim.

This point was made by the former CEO of an Arab news channel.[/quote]

yes, the majority of terrorists are Muslims, except for the Spanish, Irish, Latin American, Right Wing American etc…