Job Hemorage

Business Money
1

What should I do when I grow up?

  • A. Stick it out in Arkansas and learn to love it.
  • B. Find a job in another state and hope things will be better in bigger, more metropolitan place.
  • C. Try to find a better deal overseas and then hire someone to stand in as “family” for my poor mom.
  • D. Open my own business, doing God knows what.
  • E. Move to Spain and become a Gypsy.

0 voters

I live in Arkansas. It’s middle south USA. I don’t have the numbers any more, but this state ranks on the low end of the list for illiteracy and poverty rates in the union, so we’re already at the back of the herd, so to speak, but these days this area is just bleediing jobs. Russellville, where I lived until Christmas break, is losing a ritzy department store. That’s not such a huge suprise, as I don’t know how it ever made a profit in that town, as expensive as it was.

We do have a nuclear plant and smallish university, oh and the most expensive hospital in the state, one which used to be one of the top ten expensive hospitals in the union. Otherwise, it’s a couple department stores, hotels, and a LOT of fast food. I don’t know where the money comes from around here. Lots and lots of very expensive new construction homes.

But now, one business after another is folding. Late last year it was a furniture store that had been in business for a couple generations. They said it was due to the owner’s failing health, but maybe there was more to it. Lots of other small to mid size start ups have closed. But the department store employed quite a few people. A Sara Lee pantyhose factory that was near here closed, and that was hundreds of jobs.

But it’s all over the state. Target in Little Rock–500 more jobs–was anounced last night on the news, and an entire mall there closed a couple months ago. And there are still anouncements of labor cuts, or loss of benefits or bonuses all over the place.

You guys are talking about the same things in Taiwan, both teachers and non-teachers.

I’ll graduate in May and have to survive May-August with no income and hope to find a full time job at that time. I’m hoping I’ll be able to find one. Teachers are always needed, right? But the loss of all the business and job will mean loss of local tax funding for schools. This has already caused some of the larger districts in AR to lay off teachers and freeze hireing of new blood.

And my mom wants me to move here up here again. I’ve decided I simply can’t do that until I know where I’ll end up.

But also, if I accept employment anywhere in the state, I’ll make between 32 and 37 thousand. I could make 3 to five times that overseas in a good international school, or hell, even make the same amount in a buxiban in Taiwan, but have much lower costs of living. But is it worth it to seek overseas jobs at the moment? Is it better to find a teaching job at home in a horrible economy, or to look farther away for better pay and bennies, but maybe fewer desirable jobs? Or maybe just look in another state?

Help me figure this out, y’all.

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If you’re sure that you can earn much more than that OS, and it still makes sense after extracting the kids education, then it’s really a no-brainer.

Good luck!
HG

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[quote=“housecat”]

I’ll graduate in May and have to survive May-August with no income and hope to find a full time job at that time. I’m hoping I’ll be able to find one. Teachers are always needed, right? But the loss of all the business and job will mean loss of local tax funding for schools. This has already caused some of the larger districts in AR to lay off teachers and freeze hireing of new blood.

But also, if I accept employment anywhere in the state, I’ll make between 32 and 37 thousand. I could make 3 to five times that overseas in a good international school, or hell, even make the same amount in a buxiban in Taiwan, but have much lower costs of living. But is it worth it to seek overseas jobs at the moment? Is it better to find a teaching job at home in a horrible economy, or to look farther away for better pay and bennies, but maybe fewer desirable jobs? Or maybe just look in another state?

Help me figure this out, y’all.[/quote]

What field will your graduate degree be in? An MA? A credential program? The reason I ask is because that “economic stimulus” package that President Obama is pushing is supposed to have a fair amount of money to be sent to districts to keep teachers from being laid off. I don’t know if that will lift the hiring freeze but it just might if you have the right credentials.

Another thing you might check out is some of the other states in our fine union :slight_smile: Last year around this time several of my friends were contemplating moving from CA to Nevada or Texas because CA just wasn’t hiring teachers. There were districts in other states that were dying for teachers and were willing to partially subsidize moving costs. Now given that was a year ago, and with all that has happened, the situation may very well have changed. I would still recommend you give that a shot, you may find that some places are still hiring for a better salary than you’re currently being offered in AK.

Another option is to see if there are intercity schools you can work for. It’s tougher on the teacher, but can be done, and usually involves a bit higher pay.

As far as a good international school over here, I’m not sure what they pay, but I don’t see how you could realistically make 5 times your AK salary at a buxiban without killing yourself. To do so would require you to make about 400k NT a month at a rough exchange rate of 30NT/1USD [(32k US/yr X 5 X 30 NT/1 USD)/ 12 months = 400,000 NT /month]. At triple your current salary would still be almost 100k USD/yr right? That comes out to pulling down 240,000 NT a month [(32k US/yr X 3 X 30 NT/1USD) / 12 months = 240,000 NT/month).

Even doubling your income to around 60k US will require a lot of hours, IMO. [(60k US/yr X 30 NT/USD) / 12 months = 150,000). Now this is all pre-tax income, and that’s where the biggest difference between the US and TW is (aside from living costs). 20% for the first 6 months then down to around 12% is much better than 15 - 25% plus state taxes (at 31k or less its 15%, 31k or more its 25%)

Whatever you choose to do good luck and god bless. I hope that you can find something quickly in these troubled times!

-Brett

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ESF teaching in HK oughtta make you a lot more loot than any bullshit barn in Taiwan. esf.edu.hk/index.aspx

HG

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Thanks for the replies. I’ll earn the MA Teaching in May, licensed to teach in Arkansas.

I wasn’t clear enough, I guess, I meant earning equal to about 32 Gs a year in the Buxiban.

HK is something I’ve been looking into as an overseas possibility and the plus of international schools is that my kido’s education fees would be waived. The down side is that most international schools want to see at least two years experience teaching at “home” after the license is earned. I may get around that in Taiwan having taught there for 10 years in buxiban, public schools, and university.

I have it on good authority that one of the largest international schools in Taipei pays average of 300-350 Gs NT per month for certified BA’s. I’ve heard of schools in Japan who pay more. HK’s Net program is something like 6 Gs US per month (after housing and bonus are included)–I understand.

But my ailing mom is here and I’m a bit afraid that if I leave, I won’t be able to come back for some time due to the situation here. I just saw another report online that massive layoffs are expected to get worse in 2009.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090128/ap_ … fi/economy

I’m wondering about what else this means to every day life here in the states. Social unrest? One family murder/suicide is already reported and blamed on job woes. Availability of goods? Over burdened public services are already a problem. What kind of a real environment am I considering staying in, and will it be better to be an expat someplace else?

Where would you be, if you could?

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Rats, it is really tough to balance family and carreer goals, heck, just making a living is hard enough these days. My advice would be to play it by ear, too many factors lie beyond your control. You are getting “ready” in a sense as you are getting higher education and have marketable skills, but as you say, it is a really gloomy picture what may lie in the future, and I stress, may. The worst case scenario would be out of a job, in which fleeing rapidly to Asia would be an emergency, not necessarily the best option, but justifiable under the circunstances. And you are already doing your homework on that regard.

Seems to me you lean towards staying, at least, accompanying your mother as far as you can. However, that does not imply going down with the sinking ship. Even a mother would understand that -heck, mine did.

As to what experts say, from MSN:

[quote]Education
As the baby boomers exit the teaching market, the field will require new blood to move in. The National Educational Association estimates that in the next decade, more than 2 million new teachers will be needed to replace retirees and tend to increasing student populations.
The field is especially ripe for bilingual, special education, math and science educators. While teachers’ starting salaries have traditionally been lower than those in professions that require comparable education, teachers willing to work in critical-needs areas may be eligible for substantial signing bonuses as well as student loan forgiveness programs.
[/quote]

Honey, you have Chinese, a great commodity these days. Even in my neck of the woods, they have dropped French as the second foreign language taught -English starts in 1st grade, French used to start in 7th grade-, and now the biggest draw a kindergarden can have is “we are teaching Chinese”. Don’t ask me how, but I’d like to know.

7

I think that we are forgetting how incestuous and bureaucratic the teaching industry is in the US. The state I’m from provides employment to only 70% of it’s teaching grads(people with a degree in education to teach) in schools, the other 30% go find other work or move. Getting the job is often the hardest part of the process.

I wish you luck Housecat, but this is a family decision that should be done with your son and mother. I would personally be in HK or Australia, transferring my student loans to credit cards, and planning my bankruptcy. :wink:

8

I graduated from LSUS in Shreveport and got out of LA as soon as possible. Texas school districts generally have better pay. And with an MA in Teaching you could be looking at a curriculum specialist job or something like that. Or go for your principalship certification. Try looking around between you and Dallas, like Marshall, Tyler, and such. Maybe you can find a good compromise between better pay and not being too far from your mom.

9

Thanks for this reply, K, I was hoping you’d respond to the p.m., but I guess there isn’t that much else to say, right? I haven’t wanted to be in TX, but I guess I may just have to give it up and grow a couple of long horns. Thanks for the suggestions about curriculum writing and principalship. I hadn’t considered either. I made this thread to get opinions and ideas, after all, so that helps.

Now, who voted for becoming a gypsy?!

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housecat, here’s my view:

The root causes of the current mess are, first, America no longer creates the wealth necessary to sustain its standard of living and has been desperately living on borrowed time – and borrowed money – in a futile attempt to stave off its day of reckoning.

Second, America no longer creates the wealth necessary to sustain its standard of living because it’s being systemically choked by public and private special interests which make it unable to compete in the global economy.

These special interests – as the recent Wall Street bonuses issue illustrates – won’t let go of their stranglehold until their host is almost dead. That will be when America’s standard of living has dropped around 30% and civil unrest and mass deprivation are rampant and long-suppressed foreign threats are flaring up.

Consequently it would be a mistake to plan as if things are going to go back to the way they were any time soon because the current rescue plan is likewise comprised entirely of borrowed money and completely fails to address the structural causes of the problem.

If I were you I would aim for a semi-self-sufficient lifestyle built at least to a degree on the bartering of my professional services. For example, move to a part of the United States with a strong agricultural base, acquire access to a plot of soil for gardening and arrange to barter at least some teaching services for other goods and services as would-be customers have trouble paying as traditional employment continues to erode. Agricultural communities will be able to weather the reduction in standard of living better than other communities because they produce basic necessities. This will also give them a leg up in continuing to provide traditional paying employment as things get tougher but a barter economy will likewise be able to take root there.

While agricultural communities have better fundamentals for weathering hard times they have limited capacity for absorbing population so the sooner you make this move the better. If I’m wrong, worst case is you end up with a good teaching job in a nice small town in the Midwest or Central Valley of California. “Best case” is you and your son are already in place when the hordes of gypsies begin to arrive with all their earthly possessions piled atop their cars, only to find the doors already closed.

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Spook, that was truly scary. :runaway:

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[quote=“spook”]If I were you I would aim for a semi-self-sufficient lifestyle built at least to a degree on the bartering of my professional services. For example, move to a part of the United States with a strong agricultural base, acquire access to a plot of soil for gardening and arrange to barter at least some teaching services for other goods and services as would-be customers have trouble paying as traditional employment continues to erode. Agricultural communities will be able to weather the reduction in standard of living better than other communities because they produce basic necessities. This will also give them a leg up in continuing to provide traditional paying employment as things get tougher but a barter economy will likewise be able to take root there.

While agricultural communities have better fundamentals for weathering hard times they have limited capacity for absorbing population so the sooner you make this move the better. If I’m wrong, worst case is you end up with a good teaching job in a nice small town in the Midwest or Central Valley of California. “Best case” is you and your son are already in place when the hordes of gypsies begin to arrive with all their earthly possessions piled atop their cars, only to find the doors already closed.[/quote]
I agree. I honestly thought the government would have at least a little more sense than it’s shown, but they’re doing their damndest, both under Bush and now Obama, to destroy the currency and devalue the dollar. I’m curious, Spook, what’re you going to be doing as manufacturing slumps?

With the corporatization of agriculture, I think Housecat will have a hard time bartering teaching for food. A small town in an agricultural area is still a good idea, though. Cheap housing and land, but still the same need for teachers relative to population size as the big cities. I’ll add some more in a PM.

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I have more knowledge of SPED, specifically Autism Spectrum Disorder programs, than regular ed, and were I you, and assuming you like computers enough, I would concentate in “assistive technology for ASD”. As all in ed know, incidence of ASD is inexplicably up and accelerating. It a huge expense for school districts, and many are introducing employee-based programs rather than pay third party providers. With “assistive technology for ASD”, you would have your pick of places and jobs, plus the speciality bonuses. I would also do the prinicipal course, because … U.S. school districts are a three-tier society full of cliiques. The pecking order is: 1) those without teaching certificates (usually in admin), 2) those with teaching certificates, and 3), the highest tier, teaching certificate and completion of principal’s training course.

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I don’t see a huge depression and return to some agragrian society, that’s not efficient, what I do see is a drop in the standard of living in the US and perhaps other countries. The wages difference for qualified teachers in US and outside starkly indicates this drop.

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Housecat,

There is always demand (at least around here – upstate NY) for SpecEd and ESL teachers. I don’t think it would be difficult for you to get a position in another state if you are flexible about where you go.

That said, I came back from Taiwan, where I pretty much had it made, to be with family, and I have not regretted that decision (much. Okay, I’m kidding. But I do miss the good old days of working half-time and sitting around in tea shops and going up on Yangmingshan on my Vespa and just being able to walk anywhere without worrying.) I would think carefully about how close you are with your mother and how badly you would feel should something happen to her while you are far away.

I wouldn’t be honest if I didn’t say that if something suddenly happened so that I had no family members left here, I would probably go back to Taiwan instead of staying here. But I’m pretty much convinced that this was the right thing to do. The job situation here is probably a little bit better than AK but not much. In fact, one of the reasons I’m teaching at present (besides interest) is that the translation market has fallen off so much here.

That’s my experience, yours may vary. If you want to see teaching jobs in New York, Google “OLAS” (on-line application system) and it will pop right up. Although with the taxes here, not sure I can recommend NY with a straight face either. I lived in TX before and liked it, but if you’re liberal in the least it would be a tough row to hoe unless you were in Austin.

One other factor you haven’t mentioned might be your son’s education – do you want him in AK schools?

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[quote=“MaPoSquid”][quote=“spook”]If I were you I would aim for a semi-self-sufficient lifestyle built at least to a degree on the bartering of my professional services. For example, move to a part of the United States with a strong agricultural base, acquire access to a plot of soil for gardening and arrange to barter at least some teaching services for other goods and services as would-be customers have trouble paying as traditional employment continues to erode. Agricultural communities will be able to weather the reduction in standard of living better than other communities because they produce basic necessities. This will also give them a leg up in continuing to provide traditional paying employment as things get tougher but a barter economy will likewise be able to take root there.

While agricultural communities have better fundamentals for weathering hard times they have limited capacity for absorbing population so the sooner you make this move the better. If I’m wrong, worst case is you end up with a good teaching job in a nice small town in the Midwest or Central Valley of California. “Best case” is you and your son are already in place when the hordes of gypsies begin to arrive with all their earthly possessions piled atop their cars, only to find the doors already closed.[/quote]
I agree. I honestly thought the government would have at least a little more sense than it’s shown, but they’re doing their damndest, both under Bush and now Obama, to destroy the currency and devalue the dollar. I’m curious, Spook, what’re you going to be doing as manufacturing slumps?

With the corporatization of agriculture, I think Housecat will have a hard time bartering teaching for food. A small town in an agricultural area is still a good idea, though. Cheap housing and land, but still the same need for teachers relative to population size as the big cities. I’ll add some more in a PM.[/quote]

MaPoSquid, our business, paradoxically, does well during downturns in the U.S. because the pressures to reduce product development and manufacturing costs intensify and pushes our customers even further out of their comfort zones. This downturn is no different so far, though I didn’t really expect it. One factor which has helped is our costs have been dropping because of the downturn and I’ve passed these cost reductions onto our customers almost immediately. I’ve also focused over the years on developing customers in utilities, medical and other areas of basic need and avoiding automotive, consumer and other discretionary spending markets and this strategy seems to be paying off so far.

I’m also accelerating efforts at finishing up some inventions I’ve been working on the past couple of years which provide cost reduction and efficiency benefits.

Even with all these efforts at playing to the fundamentals there are no guarantees so one of my big efforts now is actively seeking farmland to buy.

My advice to housecat wasn’t that she consider approaching agribusinesses with her bartering proposals but rather rural school districts which had a distinct need for her educational specialty but without the cash to fully fund them as their tax revenues decline. Part of her compensation could in the form of housing (with garden plot), partial utilities, a car etc. This was the model in rural communities in times past so it wouldn’t be an entirely foreign concept for them to consider.

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[quote=“ironlady”]Housecat,

One other factor you haven’t mentioned might be your son’s education – do you want him in AK schools?[/quote]

Thanks, Ironlady. I think I mentioned somewhere that I’d love to eventually have my son in an IB program somewhere, if possible. I do believe an international school education is great for him, for many reasons, especially language and culture exposure, but many of these schools will also have very high academic standards.

Arkansas schools, at least some of them, aren’t too bad. I really like the school where I’m interning–and my son is just excelling here!! This school is very small and 15 miles from where we were before Christmas. His teacher is actually teaching him to read. Min. standards for passing kindergarten were all the other teacher was shooting for. He was borred, and his teacher sent home behavior notes frequently. I have the best kid in the world!! I know I’m his mom, but really, he’s polite, says yes ma’m and no ma’m, is much more able to foccus and has a much longer attention span than most 5 year olds. Plus, I HAVE NEVER HEARD ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOR BEFORE. In fact, I get noting but compliments on him, even when he’s observed when I’m not around.

Before christmas break in the end of December, he was still just bringing home cute little ABC cut outs that they were making in class. Just in the last month and a half, he has learned so much reading and spelling that he’s reading at first grade level. He’s also from a single parent household and was born into a different language and culture environment–and looks, “Chinese.” I was so dismayed at how things that I was planning to have him either moved to another teacher’s class, or move him to another school. So this move has been great for him and night and day different.

That’s all to say that it’s hard to say–school to school it makes an incredable difference. However, I’d not likely be too thrilled to have my son in NY or TX schools, just from what I hear. In fact, on of the hardest things about teaching is going to be trying to find a school to work for that I also feel comfortable sending my son to!

You all have contributed a lot to this. I have a lot going on now, but need to start to think these things through carefully. The first thing I have to decide is whether or not to go back overseas. If I stay here, my choices are going to pretty much be AR or TX, because AR is about as far as I may be able to move my mother, if I can move her at all. As far as this goes, yes, Ironlady, the only thing I know for sure at this point is that I would absolutly regret missing the last of my mother’s life. But I just feel so suffocated most of time. Being in the classroom again is helping, but I still dream about escape. I have to teach a theme unit this semester–getting started with it this week. Can you guess my theme? Yep–travel.

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FWIW, I don’t think the dreams of escape ever stop once you’ve lived in Asia for any length of time. :frowning:

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Oh …

I have itchy feet so badly right now. I feel buried alive in suburban middle England. :laughing:

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What is that you hear? :ponder: