Just turned down again for a credit card

Business Money
21

That seems to support my perspective on the whole matter of banks and foreigners in Taiwan: they are concerned about customers leaving the country and thus becoming (for all practical purposes) unreachable, and since there are no exit visas anymore that requirement they created is perhaps the next best thing they can think of. :wink:[/quote]
Even if that were the case, don’t you think a guarantor of payment by a Taiwanese citizen make more sense than a “guarantor” of residence, which doesn’t exist because in the case of divorce or firing the foreigner is SOL anyway? It makes no sense at all, even from the argument of foreigners possibly leaving behind bad debt. Guarantee of payment is far more logical than guarantee of residence.

Their loss. And NPC’s loss. I will take my gas guzzling Benz to CPC using a member card there and use one of my other 3 credit cards. Screw Sinopac and NPC.

22

I wonder whether, when you get into “fighting mode”, you are not (unconsciously) assuming that banks are some kind of real-time hyperlinked structures where information being handled by a teller more or less immediately reaches the upper echelons of decision making, the brain of the organisation (like what happens when you deal with one single person). I really think it is best to always think of banks as bastions of rule-bound and bureaucratic traditionalism that are are at least (at least!) as impervious to reason and change as military and government structures - and therefore what we often call common sense is not a good tool when dealing with them. OTOH, as you have proven yourself (in two other cases, no?), you know the rules of engagement here - why did you lose sight of the valuable advice you have posted more than once on this BBS? :ponder:
I am paraphrasing your advice here: there are no rules when it comes to foreigners getting credit cards - the obvious way is 關係道.

23

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Is it because of Taiwan’s rather unique political situation and limited scope to have fraudsters extradited, or perhaps the demographic of most foreigners in Taiwan?

You have to swat the damned credit card offering banks away from you here in HK. [/quote]

I think it’s more like 10% practical concern about chasing bad debt and 90% concern about profitability.

HK has a much more evolved system of credit reporting and also a LOT more foreigners than Taiwan. Therefore it’s easier to screen for potential risks and easier to chase up bad debt when it flees outside HK.

The most important thing is that there are enough credit worthy foreigners to make it worthwhile for the banks to accept the additional risk and hassle. Taiwan has a few thousand white collar foreigners and many of them are short to mid term English teachers who present a credit risk. Many of the remaining eligible foreigners don’t speak Chinese and get their spouse to do everything for them so in the end it’s difficult to find a bank employee who has even tried to process an application for a foreigner before. The potential market for foreign cardholders who would be profitable for the bank is in the hundreds, which is just too small a market for any bank to be seriously interested in.

The only real choice for foreigners in Taiwan is AMEX, it’s as easy for a foreigner to get a card from them as a Taiwanese and they happen to be a damn fine company.

24

Have you tried one of the ‘bigger’ global banks, Standard Chartered / Citi etc. ?
I applied for a credit card through China Trust last week, hoping it comes through next week.
Requirements from Chinatrust for a credit card as advised by the bank personel,

  1. 3 Months proof funds in your account (Assumed that to be, not overdrawing your account)
  2. ARC
  3. Passport
  4. Salary Slip
  5. ARC&Passport of my Wife - Only because i am applying for two credit cards, one for me and one for her - She is not working

WIll advise if/when i receive the card

25

[quote=“madracer”]Have you tried one of the ‘bigger’ global banks, Standard Chartered / Citi etc. ?
I applied for a credit card through China Trust last week, hoping it comes through next week.
Requirements from Chinatrust for a credit card as advised by the bank personel,

  1. 3 Months proof funds in your account (Assumed that to be, not overdrawing your account)
  2. ARC
  3. Passport
  4. Salary Slip
  5. ARC&Passport of my Wife - Only because I am applying for two credit cards, one for me and one for her - She is not working

WIll advise if/when i receive the card[/quote]
I have 3 cards. First one I got was from First Bank. This was after having been denied, even providing your criteria 1-4 above, plus all the documentation for a guarantor, but then getting approved after the branch manager made friends with me to practice his English. Second card I got was from Taipei Fubon, again after having been denied, again after providing 1 - 4 above plus documentation for a local guarantor, but then getting approved after a client who used to work in Taipei Fubon’s credit card department and called the manager. The third card I got was from Standard Chartered through an agreement with my employer to move the company’s bank account there.

The reason I applied for the SinoPac card is because NPC gas stations changed their gas discount card affiliation from Taipei Fubon to SinoPac. I drive a gas guzzler, so the discount is somewhat interesting. My partner is a penny pincher, so for him it’s a big deal.

All of this information, though, is in other threads. The point of this thread was simply to point out the irrationality of the whole process and the idiocy of what the bank personnel say. The front line employee will tell you anything to get you to make the application. They have quotas. The risk management, department, on the other hand, is another matter. There is no defined, clear, rational path for a foreigner to get a card, no matter what criteria some front line clerk tells you. They should just save everyone a lot of time and say that unless you have a connection within the bank to authorize it, you are not going to get a card because you are a foreigner. That has been my experience, anyway.

You may be able to get your card because you are married to a local. I am not. Good luck to you.

[quote=“yuli”]OTOH, as you have proven yourself (in two other cases, no?), you know the rules of engagement here - why did you lose sight of the valuable advice you have posted more than once on this BBS? :ponder:
I am paraphrasing your advice here: there are no rules when it comes to foreigners getting credit cards - the obvious way is 關係道.[/quote]
The information which you’ve paraphrased was not advice, but observations. This thread was not meant to either give or get advice, but to rant, vent and cite even more examples of how banks here talk out of both sides of their ass.

26

Ok, lost track of the gas part in the OP for the reason of choosing the specific bank. I am not married to a local, so fingers crossed for the Credit Card.
I agree, the banks (& many other places), dispense incorrect info at random. FWIW, i find taking hard, stern line with them works wonders. Remaining stern and hard after they try to laugh or infamously giggle of your request has worked for me on many occasions.

27

Since your wife is not a local, unless you either have an absolutely obscene pile of money in that bank, or if you are a high-level manager in a Fortune 500 company, it would be a miracle if you got the card. Miracles do happen, though… Good luck to you.

28

Craig, I know it’s frustrating to get messed around but the reason is just what I said - we are too small a market for banks to bother with, and it’s easier for low level staff to just say no. I still have a gut feeling that your guarantor is causing you more problems than they are solving and it may be easier to apply on your own merits.

It’s much easier to get a card at a bank you use for regular deposits, also some banks are more foreigner competent than others.

There are some banks offering cars that would be useful to me, but I know they do not have the procedures in place to run a foreigner application smoothly so I just have to accept those cards are out of reach. There are still many banks willing to issue credit cards to eligible foreigners so there is still a good amount of choice.

29

or maybe their statistics are showing that foreigners are paying on time the bills (means the bank don’t earn any money) instead of a local who is paying the bills on time (with huge interests)…

30

[quote=“llary”]I still have a gut feeling that your guarantor is causing you more problems than they are solving and it may be easier to apply on your own merits.

It’s much easier to get a card at a bank you use for regular deposits, also some banks are more foreigner competent than others.

There are some banks offering cars that would be useful to me, but I know they do not have the procedures in place to run a foreigner application smoothly so I just have to accept those cards are out of reach. There are still many banks willing to issue credit cards to eligible foreigners so there is still a good amount of choice.[/quote]
To your first point, having a guarantor hasn’t made any difference. In every case, I first applied on my own, got rejected; added a guarantor (who, to be clear, is financially secure), got rejected; pulled some strings inside the bank using connections, got approved.

In my own personal experience, it hasn’t made a difference using a bank used for regular deposits, either. First Bank rejected my application even though it was where my employer directly deposited my monthly pay.

Could you please provide the names of the banks that have procedures in place to run a foreigner application smoothly? I’ve never heard of any, except for perhaps American Express. It would be very useful to know which banks do this, and exactly what are the procedures and criteria.

The manager of direct credit card sales at one of these two banks is my client, and he has told me that they generally don’t issue cards to foreigners because of the risk of them leaving bad debt. He further told me that a local guarantor is not much help because it seems the guarantor is not as easily held responsible for the debt, like they would be in the US.

My view remains the same. There is no clear path for a foreigner to get a credit card in Taiwan. It’s hit-or-miss, with chances being improved if you have a connection inside the bank who can pull strings. Or, be a top manager for a Fortune 500 company or have a pile of money in that bank. I just wish they’d be more honest about that up front to save everyone a lot of time and frustration.

31

Resurrecting this tread to get some opinions.

For all the foreigners that have credit cards with no guarantor, but just on your own application.

  1. what bank?
  2. what was your procedure in talking with them?

I had a nightmare of a time with multiple banks. At first they said no problem, but then when I went in the next week they said No in no uncertain terms.
Even the managers seemed useless.

I have recently sent an email to the president of a major bank outlining my concerns, and to see if he will reply back but I doubt it. Recently there has been legislation to put a stop to discriminatory bank practices with foreigners, but is it really making a dent?

So far Land bank, Cathay, Citi, HSBC, and yu shan said no. Even George and Mary said no too, the biggest hawkers of credit cards out there.

32

[quote=“dan2006”] At first they said no problem, but then when I went in the next week they said No in no uncertain terms.
Even the managers seemed useless.[/quote]
Credit card sales people are paid by how many people they can get signed up. They all say “no problem”, but they are totally disconnected from the approval process.

Unless you have a pile of money in that bank, or are a top-level manager in a Top500 company in Taiwan, you need either luck, or connections. I’ve never seen a clear, documented path to approval otherwise.

I have 3 cards.

  1. First Bank, because one day when I was getting travelers checks, the branch manager wanted to practice his English. We chatted a bit, he asked if there was anything more he could do for me and I told him. He took care of it.
  2. Taipei Fubon, because one of my former clients used to work in the credit card department and was still friendly with the manager.
  3. Standard Chartered, as part of an agreement to get our company to move it’s business account there.
33

Thanks Craig…

I have about 10K US to deposit when I get to Taiwan in March…

I guess I will walk down bank alley and see who wants it, under the condition I get a low limit credit card and see who bites.

I have no issues with AMEX, because they will do a global card transfer for me, but I heard that AMEX bank is now owned by another bank in Taiwan, so I wonder if they could issue a visa/mastercard in addition to the AMEX since they have my history on file.

It also looks like there is a credit bureau in Taiwan from all the previous posts, so I wonder if American Express will report good payment to them and thus allow me to get more cards later.

34

Looks like you are a perfect candidate for a VISA debit card. Available at many banks in Taiwan. :slight_smile:

35

Looks like you are a perfect candidate for a VISA debit card. Available at many banks in Taiwan. :slight_smile:[/quote]

Thanks for the info Yuli :slight_smile: Hope your having a lot of fun down there…

I have tons of Canadian credit cards, and I find prepaid to be a bit insulting however :sunglasses:

36

NT$300k in the bank, just arrived, and you want a credit card?

You may pull it off, but you would need to basucally put up more funds in collateral than your credit limit is going to be.

Now, I said may work, I did not guarantee.

I have 3 credit cards, all with Union bank. One regular platinum visa card, one master card, and one Thai Airways cobranded card, as I always travel with them.

The first one was a bitch to get, the 2 last - I applied, they called one week later checking details, and then they mailed them.

My secret is that I have my conpany accounts at that bank, and I have benked at the same branch for several years, so I am well known. I also route NT$3-6million through the branch every month, I think that helps as well.

37

AFAIK, your credit history won’t count for anything if it’s from another country. Banks here won’t care or even check that you have a good credit history at home.

You’ll also need to show a suitable and regular local salary if you want to get one. What is suitable is known only to the banks though.

38

[quote=“Mr He”]NT$300k in the bank, just arrived, and you want a credit card?

You may pull it off, but you would need to basucally put up more funds in collateral than your credit limit is going to be.

Now, I said may work, I did not guarantee.

I have 3 credit cards, all with Union bank. One regular platinum visa card, one master card, and one Thai Airways cobranded card, as I always travel with them.

The first one was a bitch to get, the 2 last - I applied, they called one week later checking details, and then they mailed them.

My secret is that I have my conpany accounts at that bank, and I have benked at the same branch for several years, so I am well known. I also route NT$3-6million through the branch every month, I think that helps as well.[/quote]

I have a lot more than 300k, but thats all I am willing to start with.

I will try Union bank too, but as you said, I am not well known with them so it may not fly. I think I will just keep the Canadian credit cards and use them instead for the odd time I need credit.

Must be nice to have 3-5M through your account monthly :slight_smile:

Ni

39

[quote=“cfimages”]AFAIK, your credit history won’t count for anything if it’s from another country. Banks here won’t care or even check that you have a good credit history at home.

You’ll also need to show a suitable and regular local salary if you want to get one. What is suitable is known only to the banks though.[/quote]

i Have a letter from Transunion and Equifax from Canada but i’m sure they wont care.

Ill give it another whirl anyway.

40

You are right. They won’t care. Your credit history in another country doesn’t mean diddly here. Heck, a 5-year spotless credit history HERE hasn’t meant diddly. I still routinely get denied with them telling me “Because you are a foreigner.”

Additionally, bank deposits outside of Taiwan are pretty much meaningless, as well. If you rack up a bill here, they can’t get money over there. The ONLY exception I’ve ever heard of is for high rollers at HSBC.

Exactly. They KNOW you. Getting a credit card here for us foreigners is all about who you know.

I have tons of US credit cards and over 30 years of spotless credit history. Doesn’t mean crap here.

Bottom line is that too many foreigners have run up bills and left the country. That’s the reality the banks have to deal with. I had a client who was in charge of credit card direct sales at an “international” bank, and he pretty much confirmed what we have all conjectured here. They just don’t want to take a chance on us. Can’t say as I blame them really, and I try really hard not to take it personally. Fact of the matter is, though, that there is no yellow brick road to take to getting a card. It’s all about getting to know the right person at the right time.