Justifying Internet Piracy: BS or something to it?

Discussion Open Forum
1

There have been rumblings about this topic recently, and after watching a few DVDS from blockbuster about “YOu wouldn’t steal a purse…internet piracy is a crime!” it got me to thinking…

I used to use Napster: The first song I searched for was “Black Dog” and I got it no problemo. The very next day I was in Shimending and bought LZ 4. So the idea that it was stealin’ was somewhat muted as I paid the cash to buy the whole thing.

Then I got into Archive.org which has thousands and thousands (really, no shit…THOUSANDS) or hours of free music, a LOT of which is legally downloadable. I downloaded hundreds of hours of Dead shows, legally.

Now, people have TIVO and can record TV shows on their hard-drives which connect to a file sharing network and bingo…TV and movies and music, for free…BUT…filesharing is illegal…or is it??

Now I like the outdoors, and get pissed off when someone CHARGES me money to go into a PARK. Don’t I already pay taxes? Even though everyone doesn’t take advantage of the park, they all should pay as the benefit it there for us all. I mean, why should old people pay school taxes right, when their kids are all grown? Why should bob pay road taxes when he doesn’t have a car? We all should pay, but should we pay TWICE?

So, here we have all this stuff that SOME people use…I would say a small minority of people online actually download and share, but I don’t know the real numbers, so I’m talking out of my rectum here, but my point is this…don’t MOST people support the industry already by paying for sat TV, or cable, or going to the theatre? Don’t they have something else to worry about? Like quality?

So anyway, the stuff is there, they GIVE you the software to download it, and offer a lame warning on everything “This is copywritten material that cannot be downloaded; we just wanted you to know that before you downloaded it. ENJOY!”

Am I stealin’ or am I just not paying for it? I wouldn’t have bought it anyway…or maybe I would have, having just bought Desperate Housewives, and 24 seasons 1+2…maybe I would have…

Should the industry STFU and realize that we’ve been watching the shite they produce year in and year out, with the occasional glimmer of brilliance, without much complaint…I mean COME ON! I paid to watch Back to the Future and countless idiotic horror movies…and now that we can get some control over what and where and when and how we want to watch something, they call us crooks?

I say, is this not a right? People! Rise u…oh sorry. Got carried away there. :blush:

Anyway, this is what’s on my mind this morning as I get up once again at 6AM to open the school at 730Am because the summer program has begun and we need to babysit half the day because…oh sorry again :blush:

2

Hmmmm…Archive.org you say… :ponder:

3

You might enjoy reading this:

gnu.org/philosophy/words-to- … alProperty

4

[quote=“Feiren”]You might enjoy reading this:

gnu.org/philosophy/words-to- … alProperty[/quote][quote]

Publishers and lawyers like to describe copyright as “intellectual property”—a term that also includes patents, trademarks, and other more obscure areas of law. These laws have so little in common, and differ so much, that it is ill-advised to generalize about them. It is best to talk specifically about “copyright,” or about “patents,” or about “trademarks.”

The term “intellectual property” carries a hidden assumption—that the way to think about all these disparate issues is based on an analogy with physical objects, and our ideas of physical property.

When it comes to copying, this analogy disregards the crucial difference between material objects and information: information can be copied and shared almost effortlessly, while material objects can’t be.

To avoid the bias and confusion of this term, it is best to make a firm decision not to speak or even think in terms of “intellectual property”.

The hypocrisy of calling these powers “rights” is starting to make WIPO embarassed.[/quote]

interesting

5

Theft thru the net is so prevelant that CAT Thailand has blocked all access to sites like bittorrent asureus and other site for downloading pirated materials

seems more countries may follow suit :astonished:

6

[quote=“Serial Killer On Parole”]Theft through the net is so prevelant that CAT Thailand has blocked all access to sites like bittorrent asureus and other site for downloading pirated materials

seems more countries may follow suit :astonished:[/quote]

That seems logical. I personally think the industry should do it though, not the government.

7

I’ve always felt the stealing metaphor is not a good analogy.

If I steal your purse, the result is that I have it and you no longer have it.
If I copy your file, the result is that I have it and you still have it.

It might not be right, but it ain’t stealing.

Other issues:

If I bought an album many years ago, then download songs featured on that album, am I pirating? After all, I already bought those songs.

If I download rare songs from obscure albums that are not available in record stores, am I committing piracy? After all, the company isn’t losing or gaining money from albums that aren’t available on the market.

If I download a song and it inspires me to go out and buy the album, am I guilty of piracy? After all, the company gained money as a result of my download.

8

[quote=“Feiren”]You might enjoy reading this:

gnu.org/philosophy/words-to- … alProperty[/quote]

that whole site contains some eye-openers. i used some stuff from it in a paper a few years back …i especially liked reading about the origins of copyright (and copyleft) …

9

Copying newly released movies in lieu of seeing them in the theater, buying or renting the DVD is depriving the makers and the financers their due return. So, it’s bad.

Copying TV shows that are on broadcast TV, music you could have recorded off the radio, and old movies that have come on network TV is the moral equivalent of pressing record on your tape player or VCR.

Shows from cable TV if you don’t subscribe and obscure tracks you might be tempted to buy are a gray area in the middle.

10

For new, free and legal music I recommend Jamendo. It’s in the list in the link below.

Minor alternatives to major labels; a crash course in free music online - The Digital Music Weblog.

11

If I am in another country and cannot watch a TV program, like, oh, let’s say Lost, then if the broadcasting company is offering it for free recorded viewing on the internet for those who live in the US (albeit so they can force people to watch commercials), then why would it be wrong for me to download it for myself?

If an entire season of a TV show which has been off the air for a few years is not on DVD, then why would it be wrong for me to download it so I can see it? I might buy it when it becomes available, but why should I have to wait a few more years for the company to think they can make enough money off it before they put it on sale?

If I had a CD that I really liked, but it broke, then why would it be piracy to get a copy of it from the internet, especially if it’s one that’s out of print and has been out of print for almost a decade?

12

If the show is broadcast on the free tv channels it’s not piracy. But if it’s only shown on pay tv such as cable TV or satellite tv then it is considered piracy…??

13

Like the fifth season of Six Feet Under which isn’t out on DVD and is a bitch to download…uh, if I were trying to download it or anything…

14

[quote=“ImaniOU”]If I am in another country and cannot watch a TV program, like, oh, let’s say Lost, then if the broadcasting company is offering it for free recorded viewing on the internet for those who live in the US (albeit so they can force people to watch commercials), then why would it be wrong for me to download it for myself?

[/quote]

That’s due to broadcasting rights… and as AXN just had a super sunday of lost2 including the repeat finale how can you say it’s not available here??

However the internet is a great library… you just don’t need a registration card to borrow :smiley: :smiley:

15

You do in China.

16

Back in the 70’s and 80s people used to borrow and record tapes/records they wanted from their friends. What’s wrong with doing that with millions of strangers on the internet? Same thing, but oh the industry is taking a hit, losing money on movies and records that aren’t selling well in the first place.

If I were an artist I would be peeved because of the money I would be paid per CD/movie. I lose money when others download my stuff. And it also affects my standing with my company. All that is really important when you want to stay in the business.

Now on the other hand, I still think it’s okay because it’s no different from when I was a kid and borrowed my friends tapes to record them.

It’s a fine line. Perhaps, if the companies really wanted to stop piracy,lets say like tv, then make it easy access on the web. Allow people to download from their website the shows. Some companies are moving toward that but with a charge. WTF? I don’t pay for regular tv, so why in hell would I want to pay for a show to watch on the internet. That’s pure greed. As for music, that’s tricky. I don’t care for Apple’s $.99 crap for a song. That’s just more greed. I’m certain they could work out something that could benefit consumers without pimping them.

17

Hard to think of this as a black or white issue. I believe Microsoft would say that anybody that copies their software without permission is stealing. Stealing suggests that Microsoft is losing money (or goods) to that person. However, if that person never had the intenention to purchase the product, Microsoft actually loses nothing. That person would likely use a free version of another piece of software or find something else to do with their time. Microsoft didn’t lose money. They just failed to make more money. However, Microsoft is able to price their products at the level they’re at because they have millions of buyers. If only one person purchased Windows, it would cost that person a billion dollars.

When I was a kid I used to collect software. I never used 99%. It was a collection the same way somebody would collect butterflies or press leafs. I didn’t have two pennies to rub together so there was no chance I would ever buy the software.

Now - speaking as a programmer, I am in the business to make money by writing software. If everybody uses my software but nobody buys it then it’s just a hobby and I’ll be working down the street saying, “Do you want fries with your burger?”

18

I have one more perspective for this since there are a lot of English teachers here. Many of you have your own English schools. How would you feel if one kid snuck in the back of the classroom and video taped your class each day? The kid doesn’t ask any questions or get in the way. He just sits in the corner recording. One day you ask him why he is recording and he tells you that he and his friends watch the video to learn English.

Is this theft? You are not actually losing money because you’re only capable of teaching a fininte number of kids at a time. This kid doesn’t take any resources from you. In fact, he’s actually making you more popular because other kids will be interested in your lessons. This is an argument that many people make about piracy.

I’m not saying that it’s right or wrong. Just that it may be easier to think about if it’s applied to yourself personally.

19

The EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) has prepared a sample list of tough questions for times when you hear entertainment industry representatives speaking and want to challenge their positions.

eff.org/IP/faq/
Frequently Awkward Questions for the Entertainment Industry

for example:
The RIAA has sued over 20,000 music fans for file sharing, who have on average paid a $3,750 settlement. That’s over $75,000,000. Has any money collected from your lawsuits gone to pay actual artists? Where’s all that money going?

or:
Is it legal for me to skip the commercials when I play back time-shifted TV recordings on my TiVo or other PVR? How is this different than getting up and going to the bathroom?

20

Well that was against the law too. All the justification I’m reading on this topic are from downloaders who don’t want to admit that what they are doing is wrong. Stealing is stealing, whether or not a company looses money or not. If you take something that is copyrighted and protected by the law without paying the asking price for it, it is stealing. Look at it this way, if I want a CD can I just go into to Best Buy and take it off the shelf and walk out the door? I’ll probably get tackled as I hoof it out the door by the obese security gaurd. If I go online and download it, i’ll still swiping it off the shelf (as the record company, the artist, and Best Buy all lose my business) but the chances of me getting caught are next to none. Because of the small chance of getting caught, a lot of people do it, and thus the myth that there is nothing wrong with it.