Kaohsiung Dominican School (高雄道明外僑學校) Evil Across The Street

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
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[quote=“maunaloa”]HC, I just found this thread. I would follow through on the process you have started, but GIT’s “work on the East Side” really got my attention. From Hualian south, it’s a different world, much more laid back and … SUNNY. What adventures you and kitten could have, and Taidong still has good air service to Sungshan (Songshan).

Wouldn’t your elementary school hours in AR qualify you for the K-5 certificate? Here, teachers certified at one level can TA into a different level and recertify based on the TA hours.[/quote]

It might if I got ahold of the right principal. But first, I have to get them to allow me to apply! I’m still working on this. I contacted GIT’s guy and he got back to me that he would get back to me again soon.

I haven’t posted everything here and there are some other issues that may make this process more worthwhile than a few thousand NT. Or maybe they won’t. But it’s started already anyway. I do feel like throwing my hands up at the entire thing, though, as the labor board really doesn’t want anything to do with this white collar case. They’re used to dealing with factory bosses and I don’t think they’ve ever done anything with a white collar foreigner before.

I MAY have found an interpreter. Not sure yet.

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I understand RiT’s position. However, I don’t see why housecat shouldn’t do both: do what is right (challenge her school at the CLA et al) and do what is necessary (interview at the different schools until she has a new sponsor). Its a lot of work. But giving the school a free ride is the worse crime IMO.

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RobinTaiwan wrote:

[quote]Labor disputes are unrelated to immigration policies. Even criminal charges will not affect your residency status. Many are forced to overstay a visa because the court will not allow them to leave the country. Filing a complaint because you were fired will certainly not earn you a visa extension.
[/quote]

Crossed wires here I think RobinTaiwan. I’m not suggesting that the dispute will get a visa EXTENSION from the NIA, but that the delay will be at the CLA.

It is from direct personal experience that I write this. The Labour Bureau has the power to put a hold on the cancellation of a Work Permit while a dispute is resolved. The cancellation of your work permit requires the employee to sign a ‘contract cancellation’ from, except in certain circumstances (eg runaway worker).

Residency is dependent on your work permit. Therefore, if your work permit is ‘frozen’ by the CLA (as requested by the Labour Bureau) you buy yourself more time.

In a case like this one of the first actions of the Labour Bureau should be to contact the CLA and prevent the cancellation being processed. However, whether Tony managed to do that is another question.

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Good luck with finding an Interpreter , Housecat.
And I hope the Job hunt turns up something brilliant quicksmart.

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It may be that this is a struggle because they’re used to dealing with blue collar workers. However, being one of the first white collar workers may be difficult for all involved, but it might start the snowball rolling. Who knows, five years from now, it could be a different situation entirely, and you could have changed the world. Jaiyo!

I’ve also recently told some other certified teachers about Taidong. Who knows, this might become a little English teaching powerhouse. Alex in Taidong is good, so I’d like to help him by throwing as many teachers his way as possible. Let’s reward the good Taiwanese bosses/supervisors/coordinators. If other parts of Taiwan are struggling to find good teachers and they notice that this guy all the way over in Taidong is getting (and keeping) tons and they’re referring others to him, then the other Taiwanese bosses/supervisors/coordinators may have to life their game.

Also, although Taidong is pretty remote, it does have some cool stuff happening. The other day, my wife and I went to some sort of Austronesian Festival at a place called the Music Village. They had all these locals selling crafts, and they had a whole bunch of people, some local aboriginals, and some from New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga and Western Samoa carving giant logs with chainsaws and so on. Tonight is the final night I believe, or at least that’s when the carvers are supposed to finish. Of course, the air is breathable here and the scenery is spectacular too. The kids have had less exposure to foreigners and so they’re less jaded and brattish than those in the north.

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This is what makes you a good teacher, Guy. Haha. This world needs its dreamers! Thanks for the encouragement. I need it!

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[quote=“RobinTaiwan”][quote=“ironlady”]Hold on just a minnit here…do I need to spend my Skype minutes calling Tony’s boss again and explaining why Tony is not going to be your interpreter? I thought all that was settled???

Call Wenzao, figure out who is the teacher in the interpreting program for English<>Chinese, and see who you can get to come out. Even a serious student (well, maybe not the average undergrad, but most programs have one or two who are ubertalented) would be miles better than Tony the Pony.[/quote]

Is any of this even worth it since, by law, the school only owes her a few thousand NT at best? I’d pay it just to avoid wasting more time on this, if it were me.[/quote]

That may or may not be the case. I don’t think you have read all the documents related to the case or spoken with the labor board, have you?

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housecat: I really hope something comes out of talking with Alex. I think your whole outlook would change. This time last year, I was completely in the throes of extreme culture shock and being really pissed off with my work situation and living in Taiwan. Look at my posts back then, they were horrible. That’s why I had to either move or leave Taiwan, which is why I tried to get about as far away from Taoyuan as I could. I’m still cynical, and I take the piss out of Taiwan and Taiwanese (I do with everyone else and everywhere else also), but the bitter edge is gone.

89

Absolutely, HC should go to this meeting. It is not a waste of effort. Only a small amount of time is required and there’s no cost to her involved. And it’s not as if it’s dragging on and on at this point. The meeting is on Monday. Again, she has nothing to lose and possibly can gain.

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I also think that she should go to the board. The whole point of this system is to give people an administrative remedy to labor disputes instead of the hassle and expense of going to court. A couple trips to the labor board seem worth it.

BTW, at least here in Taipei the labor board sees plenty of white collar workers. The Kaohsiung Labor Dept. mediates nearly 1,000 of these cases a year (wrongful termination/severance). It’s hard for me to believe that none of these involve white collar workers.

The quality of the case workers varies wildly in Taipei. Some are very good. Others are take the side of the employers kind of arbitrarily based on their own personal ideas of how employment should work.

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[quote]The Labour Bureau has the power to put a hold on the cancellation of a Work Permit while a dispute is resolved.[/quote]I highly doubt that. I could be wrong, though. I think in your personal experience, the school simply didn’t cancel your work permit as soon as they could have.

[quote]That may or may not be the case. I don’t think you have read all the documents related to the case or spoken with the labor board, have you?[/quote]It is my understanding that there are provisions in houscat’s contract stipulating that both parties are to be heavily penalized if the contract isn’t honored.

I think that if you want proper feedback, suggestions, support or if you just wanted to have a discussion about this, you or housecat should make an effort to be more explicit in this thread instead of… I don’t know… Asking people’s opinion and then telling them that they do not have the required information to comment. It would make more sense to me, especially since the information you are withholding, as far as I know, isn’t classified nor sensitive in nature.

Additionally, you don’t need to be a fortune teller to read between the lines. Housecat only worked there for a little over three months, and as such, she isn’t legally eligible for much more than a few thousand NT IF it is established that she was wrongfully dismissed. That’s a big IF because the school will most assuredly lie in an attempt to prove that they had the right to terminate the contract. So what does that leave? What documents are we not reading? The contract.

It’s important to understand that the labor board doesn’t have the power to force the school to pay anything. If the school refuses to pay, the case will be handed over to a district court. Additionally, it is outside of the LB’s mandate to arbitrate contractual provisions that go beyond the scope of the law. If the contract stipulates that she is to be compensated in excess of what the law prescribes, she WILL need to press charges against the school. And that would be a stupid thing to do. I’ve already explained this to housecat in a reply to a PM she sent me so I’m not typing it again.

Time will tell who is right about this.

Good luck next Monday, housecat.

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I’m sorry RobinTaiwan, but that isn’t my experience.

Not only did the Labour Bureau immediately act to ensure my work permit wasn’t cancelled. They were also notified when the company (it wasn’t a school) later tried to submit paperwork to the CLA saying I was a runaway worker.

Of course the lady at the labour bureau was immediately able to confirm to the CLA that the company were perfectly able to contact me.

Result: the penalty in my contract was upheld. I was awarded way beyond the amount according to the law. I’d been with that company for 3 months and a week.

I didn’t even go to arbitration. it was unnecessary, however the lady at the Labour Bureau was fabulous.

They have the power. Sometimes you have to push to get them to use it though.

I have also personally known of another case where the cancellation was suspended for around 3-4 weeks while the case was arbitrated. It is possible.

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If HC was making NT$60K per month and has worked for three months. She is eligible for pro-rated severance pay:

NT$60,000 * .25 = NT$15,000.

Plus, if she was not given advance notice of 10 days, she should receive pay in lieu of notice

NT$60,000/30 * 10 = NT$20,000.

So that’s NT$15 to $35,000 at stake.

Robin is correct that the board can’t force the school to pay. It can however threaten to fine them and to investigate their labor practices. Most businesses understand that that will lead to more fines because no one is in full compliance. As a result, many–but certainly not all firms–back down and pay the severance.

It’s worth giving it a try.

A school reports a canceled work permit to the CLA and the CLA then reports the cancellation of the work permit to the NIA after investigating to make sure that everything is OK. The Kaohsiung Labor Board can call the CLA in Taipei and tell them that there is a dispute. The CLA will usually (but not always) hold off on reporting the canceled work permit to the NIA. In practice, this usually buys more time.

It’s important not to have too high of expectations, but the process can and does work in many cases. Sometimes it doesn’t. Recently a teacher in Taipei was fired for occasionally being late. She didn’t get a red cent because the labor bureau people agreed with the employer. Ive see other cases with almost exactly the same facts where the employee did get his severance pay.

HC should also make sure she is getting paid for sick leave since she was ill. Employees are eligible for up to 30 days of paid sick leave (half pay) per year!

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I typed a long reply and then it didn’t get posted! ARGH.

Anyway, let’s try again.

The school’s contact is contrary to local labor laws in several ways, one of which is that there are insufficient sick days provided for, and in my case none of the ones provided were paid.

There was no notice to me that I was going to be fired when I returned to work. I knew the school was likely to be upset at Tony’s call, but I had no idea I was going to get canned until I was talking to another employee of the school and a member of administration told me to go and sit in his office. That was highly irregular and my first clue that they were more than pissed about the phone call. There is plenty of evidence, as well, that I did not know I was going to be fired that morning.

I don’t want to go in to I now because it would take a longer time than I have to type out, for one, and because I don’t want to reveal the name of the school as yet, but my job description was drastically changed shortly after I began working. I did not agree with this change, for many good reasons, and was told that I had no choice and that I was being “hostile” to voice my disagreement. The labor board’s position on this is that my employer broke my contract the moment they changed my job description. They should simply have fired me if they were going to do that.

But they didn’t fire me because the school’s contract called for ridiculously high penalties (up to six months salary), from either party, for breach. This is why I was trying to be so careful about my actions, and asking what was legal and what wasn’t, when I went to the labor board.

I’ve been reluctant to post much here because I don’t know that no one from that school lurks here. I’m in over my head, for sure, about what I’m doing with this. Rob has been very kind and helpful via PM and I take that very seriously and very gratefully. I also haven’t even told him these things, or other things, and he’s giving me the best advice he can based on what he knows.

And I may have shot myself in the foot by signing an agreement to end the contract, but they had just told me they’d gathered all my son’s belongings and then had the audacity to ask me what my plans were for his education. I’ve no doubt that they would have been on the phone with the department of education the minute I walked out of there with my son, reporting that he was being kept out of school without cause. I didn’t feel like I could leave him there without doing what I was told before I left, but I DID tell them that I didn’t want to sign the document. It was in duress. Of course, that’s their word against mine, but I’m sure I was being recorded.

I’m also going up against someone here who has a huge advantage in uniform and appearance. That’s about all I can say, but it’s not going to be easy because of what this person/these people represent.

I was pretty well blind sided by a Mac truck here. I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing anymore, I just know that it’s already started. The guy who will be representing me is pissed at me anyway because he got in trouble for calling my boss. They don’t want to have to deal with my white face and white collar problems. Since this is started, I’m going to go in there on Monday. I just hope it works out and then is over with.

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I’d be interested to hear about housecat’s work permit situation.

The term severance pay is often loosely used. A severance package may include many different benefits. Two of the most common benefits found in severance packages are payment in lieu of notice and payment for months of service. I believe the latter is what you referred to as " severance pay."

[quote]So that’s NT$15 to $35,000 at stake.[/quote]Your numbers are inconsistent with the numbers posted earlier in this thread. I asked to be corrected because I’m not 100% on the exact numbers. It would be adequate to support your numbers with sources and citations.

[quote]Robin is correct that the board can’t force the school to pay. It can however threaten to fine them [/quote]They can’t fine anyone. They can only threaten to request an investigation by a district court where a fine may be sanctioned. If they proceed with this application, housecat finds herself in a legal battle and things are more than likely to get very ugly. She’s on her own. Not a risk worth taking for a single mom living in a foreign country, in my opinion.

[quote=“housecat”]And I may have shot myself in the foot by signing an agreement to end the contract[/quote]It’s actually a good thing, in my opinion. The contract is no good to you.

From what you wrote, I think the school owes you for pay in lieu of notice.They also owe you for unpaid sick days. I’d shoot for that on Monday and cross my fingers.

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Back for my irregular visit to Ilha Forumosa and I am very sorry to hear about this happening to you, Housecat. I’m glad you had Ironlady at your side.

This officially proves that the CLA is full of incompetent shit-stirrers on both ends of the island. The one I had to deal with called the school when I only made an inquiry about severance pay and then backed out of the mediation at the last minute and put another shithead in his place who not only let my school into the meeting early and talked to them, but made a decision about the case without me even being present.

Things will work out for the best for you, I just know it. You have many people on your side to make sure justice is served.

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Do you have an interpretor yet? I have school till 11AM Monday and nothing again until 6pm, so I can go straight down there after class if you’d like. It doesn’t give us a lot of time to go over things but probably just enough if we go straight into it (if I rode, I’d get down to Minzu Rd at around 12).

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[quote=“RobinTaiwan”]I’d be interested to hear about housecat’s work permit situation.

The term severance pay is often loosely used. A severance package may include many different benefits. Two of the most common benefits found in severance packages are payment in lieu of notice and payment for months of service. I believe the latter is what you referred to as " severance pay."
[/quote]

Yes, I’m talking about severance pay per Art. 17 of the Labor Standards. That’s close enough to the official English translation.

[quote]

[quote]So that’s NT$15 to $35,000 at stake.[/quote]Your numbers are inconsistent with the numbers posted earlier in this thread. I asked to be corrected because I’m not 100% on the exact numbers. It would be adequate to support your numbers with sources and citations.

That’s not quite right. The penalty for failing to give advance notice (Art. 16) is an administrative fine (fáhuán, Art. 78) that can be imposed by the Labor Bureau. You are correct that the fine (fájīn) for not paying severance must be imposed by a court. If the board finds for housecat, it can refer the case to the prosecutor’s office at the district court.

My real point is that the board can find other grounds to fine the school if it wants to make life unpleasant for the employer.

And why are things going to get really ugly if it goes to court? I agree that it might not be worth the time and effort but I don’t think she needs to feel that because she is a single mom living in a foreign country she can’t use the court system.

My figures were just an estimate based on a salary of NT$60K per month. I don’t really have time to hunt through this long thread for numbers that may or may not be there.

[quote]
From what you wrote, I think the school owes you for pay in lieu of notice.They also owe you for unpaid sick days. I’d shoot for that on Monday and cross my fingers.[/quote]

Definitely. But why not severance pay too? She worked for three months. She’s owed 25% of her monthly salary too.

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Housecat, trust what Feiren tells you. He’s a very reliable source of information on issues like this.

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Thanks everyone. Tsukinodeynatsu, I’ve sent you a PM.