I tried riding this 125 sym motorcycle this week which is similar to the one I bought. My friend was trying to teach me, but I kept ending up on my back wheel which is a bit unsettling.
How does one go about learning to ride without ending up on one’s ass?
My main problem is that my fingers are not strong enough to pull the brakes without moving the throttle…I have to move my whole hand back, and then I take the throttle thingy with which is the opposite of what I want to be doing.
The last time that happened I ended up on the back wheel, then when I came down the bike kept going and I bounced two more times before I finally just tried to put it in neutral to stop…about a meter from this wall under the bridge!
How can I improve my riding without killing myself in the process?
[quote=“twonavels”]I tried riding this 125 sym motorcycle this week which is similar to the one I bought. My friend was trying to teach me, but I kept ending up on my back wheel which is a bit unsettling.
How does one go about learning to ride without ending up on one’s ass?
My main problem is that my fingers are not strong enough to pull the brakes without moving the throttle…I have to move my whole hand back, and then I take the throttle thingy with which is the opposite of what I want to be doing.[/quote]It should be fairly easy to pull the brake lever. Perhaps your friend needs to get his/her brake system renovated – brake fluid changed, pads and brake hose checked.
If this is not the problem then at least he/she could adjust the lever so it’s physically a little closer to the throttle. It shouldn’t be too far out – you don’t want to be pulling it with your fingertips.
You could try practicing the hand movements at a standstill, with the engine switched off.
One more thing – if you’re riding at car park speeds then you want to go a little easy on the front brake compared to normal riding. If you grab the front brake alone the bike may well fall over. Better to use about equal amounts of front and back brake.
You need to find someplace where you can’t hit anything first…Then practice, practice practice. At low speeds, just enough to get moving in first gear. I usually stand right in front of the person learning, and try to have them match my walking backwards speed with alternating clutching and utilizing the front brake.
Don’t get out on the road until this is completely second nature…It’s not worth serious injury due to inexperience.
I’m pretty far from you, but I’m sure their are plenty of fellow forumosans that would be willing to spend some time with you to learn.
This sound like one of those sym legends. They’re pretty snappy. If you let the clutch out too fast they can pop up on you. Do what the other guys say and make sure the levers are in the right position and are easy to pull. Then I would suggest going to a parking lot or somewhere by the river and practicing while sitting towards the tank. Hug that tank with your thighs!
If the bikes in bad shape and needs work just hold off until it’s safe again.
It’s easy to want to take an “easy rider” approach to your riding position but all motorcycles (and people) are created differently. Balance is key.
I’ll keep that peroxide in mind!
And yep, I checked it and I’m moving my wrist down when I brake…that’s probably also why I keep opening the throttle way up.
I don’t think I need to practice on a scooter first as I had no trouble with keeping the bike upright. The problem is that I’m still thinking of what I have to do next when I have to stop. I think I’ll put it up on the stand, and just keep practicing the hand stuff until it’s second nature.
Back brakes? What back brakes?
[quote=“twonavels”]I’ll keep that peroxide in mind!
And yep, I checked it and I’m moving my wrist down when I brake…that’s probably also why I keep opening the throttle way up.
I don’t think I need to practice on a scooter first as I had no trouble with keeping the bike upright. The problem is that I’m still thinking of what I have to do next when I have to stop. I think I’ll put it up on the stand, and just keep practicing the hand stuff until it’s second nature.
Back brakes? What back brakes? [/quote]
Actually, I find it’s best…especially for beginners to ONLY use the rear brake at speeds under 10km/hr. It’s way too easy for the front to slide out on dirt or unseen oil…etc. And at such low speed the back can stop as quickly as the front…since you’re almost stopped to begin with.
At higher speeds the rules are very different.
Check out advice number 29 (scroll down the left side) through this link: msgroup.org/DISCUSS.asp
If I’m reading this correctly (and…I believe I am), you should lay off the front brake entirely and just practice down-shifting with your back brakes. Front brakes are useless unless you’re at a low-speed anyway so why bother spending so much time practicing? :s
Like I said, I might have missed something in your OP, but the tricky thing about riding a motorcycle, compared to a scooter or even a mountain bike, is getting comfortable with almost strictly back brake use, combined with downshifting.
The only time I use my front brake is in very, very slow traffic or in my alley/parking garage.
If I’m reading this correctly (and…I believe I am), you should lay off the front brake entirely and just practice down-shifting with your back brakes. Front brakes are useless unless you’re at a low-speed anyway so why bother spending so much time practicing? :s
Like I said, I might have missed something in your OP, but the tricky thing about riding a motorcycle, compared to a scooter or even a mountain bike, is getting comfortable with almost strictly back brake use, combined with downshifting.
The only time I use my front brake is in very, very slow traffic or in my alley/parking garage.
[quote=“wonder”]If I’m reading this correctly (and…I believe I am), you should lay off the front brake entirely and just practice down-shifting with your back brakes. Front brakes are useless unless you’re at a low-speed anyway so why bother spending so much time practicing? :s
Like I said, I might have missed something in your OP, but the tricky thing about riding a motorcycle, compared to a scooter or even a mountain bike, [b]is getting comfortable with almost strictly back brake use, combined with downshifting.
The only time I use my front brake is in very, very slow traffic or in my alley/parking garage[/b].[/quote]
Woah, I’m sorry to say Wonder…but you’re wrong. Dangerously wrong.
At speeds above 30km/hr the front brake can stop roughly 5 or 6 times faster than the rear (a guesstimate). And in very slow traffic…you should be using the rear only…if not both together. Ideally you’d always be using both. But if you are just going to use one…then at high speeds it’s front…and at low…back.
[quote=“wonder”] Front brakes are useless unless you’re at a low-speed anyway so why bother spending so much time practicing? :s
The only time I use my front brake is in very, very slow traffic or in my alley/parking garage.[/quote]
You need to do a serious rethink of your riding style, especially before giving advice to others.
As Mordeth says, at higher speeds the FRONT brake is your best friend, usually with somewhere around a 80%front-20% rear ratio. At slower speeds, the rear brake comes more into play, and is almost used exclusively at speeds below 15kph.
Your braking theory is one of the reasons so many new riders end up “high-siding” after locking up and sliding out the rear tire, to the point where the entire bike goes sideways and pitches the rider. Other than going over the front (ie; Endo as we call it in California) it’s about the worst kind of fall you can encounter. Going over the front, interestingly enough, is also commonly encountered by people over-using their front brake at lower speeds.
I’m sure that the rest of the Vroom Vroom riding crew will pipe in here momentarily, but if you can’t use your front brake properly then you have no business whatsoever being on a motorcycle.
[quote]getting comfortable with almost strictly back brake use, combined with downshifting.
The only time I use my front brake is in very, very slow traffic or in my alley/parking garage.[/quote]
And you’re still alive? More by luck than judgment, it would seem.
Two Navels, you’re a dead nice person. Please don’t listen to Wonder!
Sounds like I indeed have to make some adjustments! Seems easy enough to switch over to the front brake for high speeds. I was certainly under the wrong impression. It feels so smooth using the brakes the other way…!
Up until now I haven’t had any serious or even near serious incidents braking with the back while downshifting so I must have been lucky or …something.
I swear the bike has performed extremely well up to and over 110 k and that includes downshifting. Not too late for me to make adjustments and use the front for most of the braking though. There’s some nice empty stretches out here where I can practice and get it right.
Sorry about the erroneous advice. Certainly not my intention to steer someone the wrong way but given my pattern of braking, I hope you can understand my confusion. Like I said, things have been working out very well with my ride but I will certainly go to mostly front brake use. In a twisted way I’m glad I made the post so I could correct my mistake.
Incidentally, I’m having some work done on it and hope to more or less restore it on a minimum budget over the next 6 months so look for some before/after pics soon.
Well, one exception to using the front brake at speed…is during corners or turning. I doubt you’re taking many high speed bends…but if you are while cornering or taking a turn…it’s easier to only use the rear…but it’s advisable not to brake at all during cornering.
Much better to brake before a corner while the bike is still going straight…and then to accelerate through the turn…or at least maintain a steady speed through.
Some people might argue that you can use both while cornering…I do…but that takes time and a good awarness of your bike before you should be doing that.
So for example… if there is a good bend in the road and you are doing 80km/hr. It’s best to slow down a bit before you get to the bend. And if you enter the bend and you still feel you are going to fast…then use the rear brake as the front wheel is busy steering at this point.
Actually that is at least one thing that I am aware of, breaking before a bend in the road so you can accellerate through the turn and return to an optimum speed after the curve/bend.
I should add the caveat here that this is indeed my first real motorcycle (albeit Taiwanese), and because of that, I haven’t developed any long-term bad or dangerous habits. So when I said that I still have time to change my braking to mostly front brakes, I mean that I’ve only had the bike for two weeks and am open to all sorts of advice on riding.
Just don’t get too technical yet and try to keep the criticism on a constructive level.
I’m not totally useless because I have driven a clutch before, and my instincts are good despite the braking error. I’m not having any major problems riding. As a matter of fact, I am now obsessed with it and will do what I can to achieve good riding skills and a well maintained bike.
Sandman, I’d rather be a live nice person than a dead nice person…that’s why I thought I’d get some help here.
I know where the back brake is now. But I’m not doing anything on a moving motorcycle for a while!
One question…next time I’m riding and I completely blank out on what I’m supposed to be doing, and I happen to open up the throttle thingy completely again, what is the best thing to do after the front wheel comes back down.
Let go of everything and hope the bike dies.
Keep holding on to the front brake and clutch thingies.
Hold the brake and leave the clutch.
Jump.
For those of you still following this thread (especially mordeth, sandman and twonavels), I’d like you to know that I’ve successfully made the conversion from 85%:15% back/front brake to 85:15 front/back brakes.
And to be quite honest it wasn’t that tricky. I went out to my favorite lonely stretch of road and started the conversion using both front and back at the same time at relatively low speeds (35-70 k/mh) and began reducing my back brake more and more on each downshift.
Now I rarely use the back break, except for very low speed and sudden stops, and that would be front and back at the same time. Yes, I’m still learning. But what I have found now is the overall handling and performance has improved greatly with the above back to front ratio. So thanks again guys. I’m sure over the next month or so, I’ll perfect my braking.
Honestly though, it being my first motorcycle, I naturally thought too much front breaking would flip the bike, not the other way around. I had no idea there was such a science to riding.
Actually, it was mordeth’s explanation of breaking, in this thread, that made it easy for me. Cheers M.
Or a bicycle even 
Next time I see you you can take my baby for a ride.(noo, nooo, not Sambuka…)
Seems easy enough to switch over to the front brake for high speeds. I was certainly under the wrong impression. It feels so smooth using the brakes the other way…!
