# Kindergarten laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Teaching English in Taiwan\ **Tags:** kinder\ **Created:** [March 24, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280 "2010-03-24T01:13:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![the\_bear](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/the_bear/32/192391_2.png) [@the\_bear](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/the_bear)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/1 "2010-03-24T01:13:44Z")
> [@Mr\_He](#): > > Where I come from, people learn to uphold the laws - the government of the ROC does not allow us to teach kindy where I come from marijuana is illegal but half the population smokes it… this argument just goes round and round. ---
**Author:** ![almas\_john](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@almas\_john](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/almas_john)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/2 "2010-03-24T01:18:33Z")
> [@](#): > > half the population smokes it… Bear, you’re a Canadian? I somehow had the impression that you were a fellow kiwi. ---
**Author:** ![the\_bear](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/the_bear/32/192391_2.png) [@the\_bear](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/the_bear)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/3 "2010-03-24T01:27:57Z")
> [@almas\_john](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > half the population smokes it… > > Bear, you’re a Canadian? I somehow had the impression that you were a fellow kiwi. droll AJ, very droll… ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_He](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_he/32/837_2.png) [@Mr\_He](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_He)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/4 "2010-03-24T01:30:59Z")
> [@the\_bear](#): > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > Where I come from, people learn to uphold the laws - the government of the ROC does not allow us to teach kindy > > where I come from marijuana is illegal but half the population smokes it… > > this argument just goes round and round. And what’s the relevance of that? It’s nearly the same where I come from, however legal enforcement of cannabis bans in Denmark is lax more or less on purpose. That would go for everybody, IE if you are a foreigner getting caught with a joint in Copenhagen, the police will take the drugs, might book you, admonish you and let you go 10 minutes later. Fine and good. This means that in practice while cannabis is illegal, it’s nowhere as illegal as human smuggling or murder. Try getting caught with a gram of hashish in your pocket here, and you will get deported. My main point is that if you as a non-ROC citizen teaches ilegally here, then you are doing something the government is taking a dim view of, and if caught there will be a deportation order waiting for you. Fine good, their country, their laws. If I had a grudge with a cram school owner and he was employing illegals, I would turn him/them in in a heartbeat. The cram school owner was breaking the law, so were the teachers. All the implied parties should realize that, after all the laws here are not promulgated in secret. ---
**Author:** ![TheGingerMan](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@TheGingerMan](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/TheGingerMan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/5 "2010-03-24T02:10:27Z")
> [@Mr He](#): > > Where I come from, people learn to uphold the laws - the government of the ROC does not allow us to teach kindy, it should be a no-brainer. This would make sense if most of the ROC laws were not selectively enforced, and if they were not fluctuating in some surreal limbo-land. Even in so-called Western societies, there are massive shady gray areas that are taken advantage of by both corporations and individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_He](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_he/32/837_2.png) [@Mr\_He](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_He)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/6 "2010-03-24T02:15:04Z")
> [@TheGingerMan](#): > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > Where I come from, people learn to uphold the laws - the government of the ROC does not allow us to teach kindy, it should be a no-brainer. > > This would make sense if most of the ROC laws were not selectively enforced, and if they were not fluctuating in some surreal limbo-land. Even in so-called Western societies, there are massive shady gray areas that are taken advantage of by both corporations and individuals. Point taken. If applied to this situation, the main trust would be that the law is selectively enforced, however at times it will be enforced, and in that situation well, SOL to the OP’s friend, or anyone else in the same situation. If you are a foreigner here, you have to live with that you are treated differently, some times better, some times worse, but a lot of the time differently. ---
**Author:** ![the\_bear](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/the_bear/32/192391_2.png) [@the\_bear](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/the_bear)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/7 "2010-03-24T02:45:27Z")
> [@Mr\_He](#): > > > [@the\_bear](#): > > > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > > > Where I come from, people learn to uphold the laws - the government of the ROC does not allow us to teach kindy > > > > where I come from marijuana is illegal but half the population smokes it… > > > > this argument just goes round and round. > > My main point is that if you as a non-ROC citizen teaches ilegally here, then you are doing something the government is taking a dim view of, and if caught there will be a deportation order waiting for you. Fine good, their country, their laws. yes but the government isn’t really taking a dim view of it. a few ethnocentrists (i.e. racists) in the Dept. of Education pushed this law through to protect “putonghua”. everyone else pays lip service to it. the law is enforced only when the police are forced to act. otherwise they would hit every kindergarten every day and the jails would be full of canadians! ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_He](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_he/32/837_2.png) [@Mr\_He](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_He)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/8 "2010-03-24T03:05:58Z")
> [@the\_bear](#): > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > > [@the\_bear](#): > > > > > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > > > > > Where I come from, people learn to uphold the laws - the government of the ROC does not allow us to teach kindy > > > > > > where I come from marijuana is illegal but half the population smokes it… > > > > > > this argument just goes round and round. > > > > My main point is that if you as a non-ROC citizen teaches ilegally here, then you are doing something the government is taking a dim view of, and if caught there will be a deportation order waiting for you. Fine good, their country, their laws. > > yes but the government isn’t really taking a dim view of it. a few ethnocentrists (i.e. racists) in the Dept. of Education pushed this law through to protect “putonghua”. everyone else pays lip service to it. the law is enforced only when the police are forced to act. otherwise they would hit every kindergarten every day and the jails would be full of canadians! Well, it got passed and signed into law, that’s what matters at the end of the day when you argue your case in front of a judge. That enforcement is spotty is either good or bad, however the knowledge that it might be enforced does it for me. ---
**Author:** ![bismarck](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bismarck](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/bismarck)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/9 "2010-03-24T04:12:17Z")
> [@Mr\_He](#): > > > [@the\_bear](#): > > > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > > > > [@the\_bear](#): > > > > > > > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > > > > > > > Where I come from, people learn to uphold the laws - the government of the ROC does not allow us to teach kindy > > > > > > > > where I come from marijuana is illegal but half the population smokes it… > > > > > > > > this argument just goes round and round. > > > > > > My main point is that if you as a non-ROC citizen teaches illegally here, then you are doing something the government is taking a dim view of, and if caught there will be a deportation order waiting for you. Fine good, their country, their laws. > > > > yes but the government isn’t really taking a dim view of it. a few ethnocentrists (i.e. racists) in the Dept. of Education pushed this law through to protect “putonghua”. everyone else pays lip service to it. the law is enforced only when the police are forced to act. otherwise they would hit every kindergarten every day and the jails would be full of canadians! > > Well, it got passed and signed into law, that’s what matters at the end of the day when you argue your case in front of a judge. That enforcement is spotty is either good or bad, however the knowledge that it might be enforced does it for me. Kind of brings this to mind from the movie Blow. > [@](#): > > Judge: George Jung, you stand accused of possession of six hundred and sixty pounds of marijuana with intent to distribute. How do you plead? > George: Your honor, I’d like to say a few words to the court if I may. > Judge: Well, you’re gonna have to stop slouching and stand up to address this court, sir. > George: [stands] Alright. Well, in all honesty, I don’t feel that what I’ve done is a crime. And I think it’s illogical and irresponsible for you to sentence me to prison. Because, when you think about it, what did I really do? I crossed an imaginary line with a bunch of plants. I mean, you say I’m an outlaw, you say I’m a thief, but where’s the Christmas dinner for the people on relief? Huh? You say you’re looking for someone who’s never weak but always strong, to gather flowers constantly whether you are right or wrong, someone to open each and every door, but it ain’t me, babe, huh? No, no, no, it ain’t me, babe. It ain’t me you’re looking for, babe. You follow? > Judge: Yeah… Gosh, you know, your concepts are really interesting, Mister Jung. > George: Thank you. > Judge: Unfortunately for you, the line you crossed was real and the plants you brought with you were illegal, so your bail is twenty thousand dollars. ---
**Author:** ![the\_bear](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/the_bear/32/192391_2.png) [@the\_bear](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/the_bear)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/10 "2010-03-24T05:26:45Z")
> [@Mr\_He](#): > > > [@the\_bear](#): > > > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > > > Where I come from, people learn to uphold the laws - the government of the ROC does not allow us to teach kindy > > > > where I come from marijuana is illegal but half the population smokes it… > > > > this argument just goes round and round. > > And what’s the relevance of that? > > It’s nearly the same where I come from, however legal enforcement of cannabis bans in Denmark is lax more or less on purpose. But this is my point…enforcement of kindergarten laws is equally lax here. Who teaches the cop’s kids when they go to kindergarten? Johnny Foreigner that’s who. As an aside: a friend of mine was once busted for teaching illegally and when he was taken to the cop shop he realized some of the cops in the shop were actually his students! ---
**Author:** ![Okami](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/f07891/32.png) [@Okami](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Okami)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/11 "2010-03-24T06:03:33Z")
I actually believe that the no foreigners in kindy is an executive decision and not a legislative law. Basically one ministry with power decides something is a law. The police are relatively free to enforce it if they wish. So the MOE makes the law, the police only enforce this executive law if they are pressed. Banana republicanism at its finest. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_He](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_he/32/837_2.png) [@Mr\_He](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_He)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/12 "2010-03-24T06:38:16Z")
> [@the\_bear](#): > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > > [@the\_bear](#): > > > > > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > > > > > Where I come from, people learn to uphold the laws - the government of the ROC does not allow us to teach kindy, > > > > > > where I come from marijuana is illegal but half the population smokes it… > > > > > > this argument just goes round and round. > > > > And what’s the relevance of that? > > > > It’s nearly the same where I come from, however legal enforcement of cannabis bans in Denmark is lax more or less on purpose. > > But this is my point…enforcement of kindergarten laws is equally lax here. Who teaches the cop’s kids when they go to kindergarten? Johnny Foreigner that’s who. > > As an aside: a friend of mine was once busted for teaching illegally and when he was taken to the cop shop he realized some of the cops in the shop were actually his students! “It’s normally ok” is not an accepted defense. You might get busted, and the laws are what they are. Until they change, your friend will be SOL. ---
**Author:** ![daddyphatsaks](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/b19c9b/32.png) [@daddyphatsaks](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/daddyphatsaks)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/13 "2010-04-05T16:33:31Z")
I find it interesting, I was browsing that aacircle forum. I noticed Asian Consulting HR actively looking for “Foreign Kindy” Teachers. I was shocked, that they would advertise looking for foreign teachers to work in Kindy’s. The post looked very appealing with great pay and low hours but knowing the consequences of working in a Kindy, why would anyone take the job or maybe they are just looking for newbs? ---
**Author:** ![anon24369109](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@anon24369109](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/anon24369109)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/14 "2010-04-05T16:42:23Z")
> [@daddyphatsaks](#): > > I find it interesting, I was browsing that aacircle forum. I noticed Asian Consulting HR actively looking for “Foreign Kindy” Teachers. I was shocked, that they would advertise looking for foreign teachers to work in Kindy’s. The post looked very appealing with great pay and low hours but knowing the consequences of working in a Kindy, why would anyone take the job or maybe they are just looking for newbs? Cause the newbs are fools who will believe anything they want to hear, and to earn a pay packet. It’s only illegal if you get caught boys and girls, and that’s right, it’s simple case of deportation for you and a new commission fee for me for finding a replacement teacher… ---
**Author:** ![daddyphatsaks](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/b19c9b/32.png) [@daddyphatsaks](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/daddyphatsaks)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/15 "2010-04-05T16:52:19Z")
Well Satellite I understand that but someone fresh off the airplane doesn’t know better. Man I am not trying to defend the newb but I honestly would have gone for that job if I didn’t know any better. Just think about it, when we read job postings on website we don’t think, well this company is setting me up for failure. I know ignorance is no defense but geez. You would think they wouldn’t blatantly advertise where they know newbs are looking. I kinda feel bad for someone who would take that job not knowing and being deported. On the other hand if someone willing takes the job knowing the risks, well then you get what you get. If there’s not too much traffic I turn right on red lights sometimes and I also turn left without doing that box turn if its a left turn signal but I can deal with the fines if they come. If I remember correctly though there were some posts on this board about the shady practices of the above mentioned website so I guess it just goes to show. ---
**Author:** ![dan2006](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@dan2006](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/dan2006)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/16 "2010-04-06T00:20:45Z")
I think the first time it should be a fine that is reasonable to collect what would be backtaxes plus penalties for the enforcement. That should get the message out quickly enough, so newbs dont get thrown out for making what might be a mistake. The second time they could deport without another warning and given a large fine, as the person was already warned and chose to disregard the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_He](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_he/32/837_2.png) [@Mr\_He](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_He)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/17 "2010-04-06T01:35:52Z")
Ignorance of relevant laws is not a defense. If caught working illegally, you will be deported. That’s not unique for Taiwan. ---
**Author:** ![dan2006](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@dan2006](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/dan2006)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/18 "2010-04-06T01:43:07Z")
> [@Mr\_He](#): > > Ignorance of relevant laws is not a defense. > > If caught working illegally, you will be deported. That’s not unique for Taiwan. Agreed in principle, but it certainly seems to work well for all the big shots with money for the hongbaos and fancy lawyers, in any country. Even heinous crimes are “looked” the other way when the right palms are greased. Yes, lets throw some stupid kid to the wolves for ignorance ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_He](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_he/32/837_2.png) [@Mr\_He](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_He)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/19 "2010-04-06T01:54:16Z")
> [@dan2006](#): > > > [@Mr\_He](#): > > > > Ignorance of relevant laws is not a defense. > > > > If caught working illegally, you will be deported. That’s not unique for Taiwan. > > Agreed in principle, but it certainly seems to work well for all the big shots with money for the hongbaos and fancy lawyers, in any country. Even heinous crimes are “looked” the other way when the right palms are greased. > Yes, lets throw some stupid kid to the wolves for ignorance I do not care about what feels wrong or right in this instance. In front of a judge from a semi-decent legal jurisdiction, ignorance is indeed not a valid defense. ---
**Author:** ![dan2006](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@dan2006](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/dan2006)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280/20 "2010-04-06T02:29:30Z")
> [@](#): > > In front of a judge from a semi-decent legal jurisdiction, ignorance is indeed not a valid defense. there is the key right there, semi-decent 🙇‍♂️ I rest my case [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/kindergarten-laws/57280.md?page=2)