Kiwi foreign policy is irrelevant

So how do you explain the many US soldiers killed in action who weren’t really there? You’re making a fool of yourself now.

Right.

What does that tell you about the rest of the world? Its a freaking insult to the men who died there, all of the men, for you to make the ignorant statements that you have made.

Yeah, the whole war would have went much better if only the US would have stayed out of Europe and Asia and left the Kiwis to slug it out alone.

“Drift”? No, I don’t get it. You originally stated that the US wasn’t even there. You’re so incredibly wrong about both the US and Kiwi involvement that it staggers the mind.

I have promised to refrain from directing profanity at any other posters… but you’re making it very difficult. Your above statement is about as idiotic a statement as I’ve ever read.

US forces were spread all over the globe… Asia, Northern Europe, Italy… Right, the US entered the war so that Hollywood would have good story material in the future.

That’s really stupid and insulting.

new zealand troops did not even participate in the final battle in which monte cassino was won(early may, 1944). new zealand took part in the battle in march in which the abbey and the town were still in german hands by the time the battle ended.

are you going to argue facts(facts which ignorant americans like tigerman and i are all too ready to produce) or are you relying on the “i heard it from someone telling war stories so it MUST be true”?

is it so hard to suck it up and admit that the americans are right and you are completely wrong? must be horrible to have inferior brainwashed americans pointing out the fantasy-world historical revisionism that you’re indulging in.

please provide at least ONE reference that suggests that new zealand had troops even PARTICIPATING in the final battle at monte cassino in which the germans were defeated.

New Zealand’s military strategy is to freeload off the Australians and Americans. The government wants to focus on peacekeeping for the United Nations (all very noble until you consider that countries get paid for contributing peacekeepers).

I grew up in a N.Z. town that had an army base. Interestingly the buildings, still in use today, where built by the Americans during WWII. As was the main local hospital.

I enjoy meeting kiwis - like the shared background and dry sense of humour. But, in the words of a Kiwi who runs a bar in Taiwan; “Compared to other foreigners I would have to say that they stand out for being cheap.”

That’s stereotyping - I would never say something like that!

I know a Kiwi guy in

Did you even read what was written.

I said the Americans didn’t pop into the equation until it was a nice little stroll in the park, not to belittle the guys who died bravely fighting it out. Americans did die, and thank you and they should be honored. And it is not the soldier on the fields fault, not by any means.
What happens is the leaders sit back and have all the other countries guys go in and get blown to bits as cannon fodder and then dive on in to cement the victory. Get the “drift” yet - being there and “being there for someone” are two entirely different things. Ok, so what if the kiwis didn’t finish it off. American leaders: " Ok boys, thanks a lot, you can all go now, history needs to be written with an American slant here."

Ok, I don’t want to insult the guys who were there - never my intent - insulting Americans in general - also never my intent. Pointing out that America is not the Be all and End all - now that’s my point. I can see from your postings that could be your opinion.

No, most of your statements are not entirely wrong,nor entirely correct either. My statements also are biased, we all are. We are all in some way programmed by our own country and culture. Given a few weeks I’d be able to submit transcripts of conversations with guys that were there from different countries and their different viewpoints of the battle. This will show in some cases that we are both wrong in many of our statements, that is if we chose to believe what they say, perhaps we won’t. I’d gladly P.M them to you as I don’t want to take up anymore forum space on a topic that is “off topic” (my fault).

As far as U.S war movies go that claim to be “based” on fact, I have never seen so much garbage in my whole life, as short as that has been. I used to believe it to, much to the disgust of the war vets. at home, until I dig some digging for myself. Believe the books if you will, there has been many a history “made” and not fact.

Being there in the end gives no right to claim victory.

We could argue in circles for weeks about this, but I just don’t see the point.
And Tigerman, I never made this “personal” - agree to disagree, neither of us can go back and see what really happened. Maybe the history books are true (cough, cough) and maybe not (cough, cough), or perhaps everything is all biased (uhhh huh).

I have plenty more to say, but that would just start you guys off again. Nuff said… save it for a P.M.

Cheers, each to his own
All our countries foreign policies suck should be the title of this thread.

[quote=“Flipper”][quote=“bassman”]

The great battles that the US claims credit for in movies… they weren’t even there… Monte Casino for example, the NZ war machine cleared that out for the most part.

[/quote]

the us 5th army lost 107,144 men at monte cassino. i think that means that they were there.

also, the algerians and moroccans of the french expeditionary force are usually credited for making the breakthrough in the battle.

and of course, the most memorable scene from the battle is the polish regiment raising their flag on top of the hill. in fact, i believe the poles suffered more casulties in the decisive battle than the kiwis did in the inconclusive battle a few months previous.

maybe new zealand needs to update its textbooks.[/quote]

Maybe NZ should update its textbooks - we’re all biased. Take a look at US history in American books and then in Canadian books - what a difference there too - who is right anyway, Canadians or Americans???

oh yeah, I forgot… Prof. Spearman, if you’re reading this,you were right! You always said that my sweeping generalisations would get me into trouble one day. Damn.
I wish I had listened to your critique all those years ago. Damn, Damn, Damn. I will have to be more careful next time. I just love yanking peoples chains too much. But you have to admit it’s just too easy with Tigerman. Write something, leave it a little vague, over generalised, or controversial and he’ll jump right in with both feet like a freshman to a panty raid.

[quote=“bassman”]Did you even read what was written.

I said the Americans didn’t pop into the equation until it was a nice little stroll in the park, not to belittle the guys who died bravely fighting it out. [/quote]

americans(along with brits and the french) were fighting and dying in the first 2 battles of monte cassino before the kiwis even showed up. thanks for playing, try again next time.

No, you said the Americans were not even there. In fact (which seems a difficult thing for you to handle), the US troops took part in the first battle of Monte Cassino, while the Germans were at full strength. The British and French Expeditionary Forces attacked from the sides while the US troops attacked from the front.

The US bombed the Abbey and still the Kiwis, despite fighting feircely, were unable to take the high ground. The US bombed the Abbey again and finally a concerted fourth battle (without the Kiwis) was fought with the Poles took the Abbey.

You’re wrong. Get over it and admit (like a man) that you have libeled the men who faught and died at Monte Cassino.

American history reports the Abbay as being taken finally by the Poles.

Funny, it certainly seems that way. You originally stated that Americans were “not even there” at the battles of Monte Cassino, and you flippantly stated that Americans have their heads up their asses so far that they cannot see. Americans are well aware that we are not the “be all and end all”… but what you are doing, posting ignorant, stupid and incorrect posts defaming America and its soldiers is a far cry from pointing out the obvious, that the US is not perfect.

I guess some are merely more perfect than others, eh?

Point out any inaccuracies of my posts.

Indeed, we are all biased. That cannot be avoided. But only some of us are objective. The pity is that with just a little bit of effort, we can all be objective. Why don’t you try a little harder? Its easy to follow the popular opinion and the cool guys and echo knee-jerk criticism… its more difficult to look at the facts and make conclusions based on the same.

No excuse… see the above.

Nobody in the US denies the Kiwi contribution to WW2, especially in Italy. Your testimony would prove nothing. Don’t bother sending me any info… its all available on the web.

Uh, I didn’t learn my history from movies. Your fault if you look to movies for historical reference. Movies are made in Hollywood… they are for entertainment purposes.

Show me one serious scholarly or military cite wherein the US claims victory alone against the Axis powers.

How typical and predictable. Once proven wrong, you, like others, claim that the subject is getting boring. Well, you made the original statement… so if it is a boring subject…

Get serious… this isn’t ancient history… you yourself keep talking about eye-witness accounts. Do you think only your accounts are true or comprehensive? Also, I’m not making this personal. Again, how typical… every time one of you knee-jerk critics of US policy is rebutted and proven ignorant, you start complaining about personal attacks. Get a pair, will ya?

Just admit your original statement was absurdly idiotic.

That’s right, especially if it is as stupid and incorrect as the statements you made regarding US involvement at Monte Cassino.

“To each his own”? Even if you’re wrong? I guess that’s good enough for you, eh?

Look at how I defined “there” in my previous post.

You are very good at selectively quoting me… gosh.

Think whatever you want - stupid as it may be - history, even on the net - yeeesh.

won’t send you a think, wouldn’t do any good anyway. You’re like a wound up spring all ready to uncoil.

Nuff said.

I quoted virtually every statement you made. That is not “selective”. Gosh!

I’m on your side, Bassman. I thought your replies were brilliant. Tigerman etc completely missed it when you redefined the meaning of words in your previous posts. Can’t they argue properly?

They may have the facts and have read about the events in detail, but that doesn’t impress me - its the meaning of words that counts.

I like the way you handle them with bold statements and clear, crisp ideas.

Don’t give up now! Courage!

I got in this morning, had a look at posts since last visit and I see my name here.
There is a certain co-worker who has been using my notebook for the past week. I forgot to remove my cookies for Segue and the little prat has been posting as me.

Apologies to Tigerman - I will count how many posts he has made and calculate the Karma points and give them to Tigerman.

This is his second violation, he did it to me on Tealit too, (no password required), real funny :imp:

I have to admit that he has stolen my style quite well, using “… and -” quite a lot and my usual “'nuff said” and has added “just yankin’ your chain” (something I say often). However, the views and opinions expressed are not my own and he is not a KIWI, so I will make reparations to the parties involved.

After reading this thread carefully I think it is a “troll” and all those who have taken the bait and continued to add to “imyourbiggestfan”'s amusement at the cat fight that he started. If you all had any sense at all you would discontinue involvement in this thread.

Tigerman - watch your Karma account later on today. After I beat the offender with a lead pipe I will get down to giving you some Karma.

Never leave “cookies” in a notebook and never lend a notebook to a practical joker.

Oh Bassman,

Below is a private message that your friend ( :wink: ) sent to me yesterday afternoon after I criticized you/him for your posts. Just thought you should know.

From: bassman
To: Mother Theresa
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:01 pm
Subject: re: your post

I’m not perfect, just forgiven

Peace out,

Bassman


Hey boys and girls check out the music I made before. If you like the music send me some Karma…ha ha
celebrationcentre.com/roar/cdsMusic.htm

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Oh Bassman,

Below is a private message that your friend ( :wink: ) sent to me yesterday afternoon after I criticized you/him for your posts. Just thought you should know.

From: bassman
To: Mother Theresa
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:01 pm
Subject: re: your post

I’m not perfect, just forgiven

Peace out,

Bassman

Dearest Mother T.

I also have a P.C at home and posted a couple of messages myself. :smiley: In the Wai guo ren nali nali thread and another thread - I can’t remember, things keep coming into my in box, I have a quick read and then answer, yesterday I even answered a few that I didn’t even post until the light went on that I wasn’t involved in that conversation. I received a critical message from you in my inbox and I answered. That P.M was from me. What was your critique in reference to again??? :?:

As far as my “friend” goes - he is not a friend. His ass is grass as of this week - fired and a replacement on the way. So hopefully we have heard the last of him. :smiley:


Hey boys and girls check out the music I made before. If you like the music send me some Karma…ha ha
celebrationcentre.com/roar/cdsMusic.htm[/quote]

Ok Mother T, got ya. I went back and did some searching on all your posts and found the post in question - Not me.

The first Bassman post is mine but from there on I take no resposibilty for any of the assinine comments made.

Thanks for letting me know - there will be another public flogging tomorrow. Wanna watch??? - We have web cams.