'Lack of evidence' that popular sports products work

Life Health & Fitness
1

I watched the episode and I wasn’t surprised at this.

[quote]Consumers could be wasting their money on sports drinks, protein shakes and high-end trainers, according to a new joint investigation by BBC Panorama and the British Medical Journal.

The investigation into the performance-enhancing claims of some popular sports products found “a striking lack of evidence” to back them up.

A team at Oxford University examined 431 claims in 104 sport product adverts and found a “worrying” lack of high-quality research, calling for better studies to help inform consumers.

Dr Carl Heneghan of the Oxford University Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine led the independent research into the claims made by the makers of sports drinks, protein shakes and trainers
[/quote]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18863293

2

Note to non-UK readers: the “trainers” mentioned in the report refer to shoes, not personal trainers. That’s British English for sports shoes.

I read the report and it says some good things but implies some bad things.

First of all, yes, most sports drinks, supplements, and shoes won’t help the average fitness person who frankly isn’t likely working hard enough to begin with for any of that to matter. People who are walking 30 minutes 3x a week on a treadmill, for example, shouldn’t be taking carb drinks or wearing special shoes because they likely don’t need them.

And yes, the effects of these accessories is sometimes overblown.

But for people that are seriously into fitness (way beyond the BBC’s usual readership), these things can make a difference. For example, for really long, intense workouts, water isn’t going to be enough. You’ll lose too many electrolytes, especially in summer and you could likely benefit from the inclusion of carbs to fuel the workout.

Supplements are useful too but only in this order IMO: 1. fitness, 2. nutrition, 3. supplements.
If the fitness regimen is solid (it usually is not), and the nutrition you get from food has been addressed (this is even rarer), then supplements can be useful. They aren’t just “expensive milk” as the article suggests.

Take for example whey protein. If you’re on a heavy weightlifting regimen and need lots of protein, it can be tough to get that much from meat, etc. alone. It’s cheaper, more efficient, and more convenient to supplement with whey protein. And the calorie count would also be lower.

Shoes depend on how much you exercise and what type you’re doing. Running pounds the body and a good pair of shoes can make all the difference. Olympic lifting demands that you have a certain type of shoe for stability or you will court an injury. In these cases, normal shoes just won’t work. Now that doesn’t mean all the bells and whistles in the ads are justified. They aren’t. But companies are just using marketing to sell their products.

Finally, I’d like to point out that the lack of “evidence” in a lab really means nothing. Studies are incredibly flawed and rarely show anything that improves real world results. That doesn’t matter. Trainers and coaches are the mad scientists and the gym is their lab. They are paid to get results and the good ones do or their kids wouldn’t eat. But in the last 20 years or so, science has heavily criticized them for not proving that these things work to the scientists satisfaction.

Fortunately the pendulum is starting to swing the other way. Folks are looking more to those that actually get results and can prove it through testimonials of other clients that have gotten results. What does or doesn’t happen in a petri dish is irrelevant.

This is a good post from Arnold Schwarzenegger’s new blog explaining this phenomena:
schwarzenegger.com/fitness/p … -new-again

Hope that helps.

3

I’ve always subscribed to the notion that one does not need any sort of supplement until they have reached what can be considered an advanced level. If you can’t lift your own body weight in any way then you don’t need them; if you can lift two times your body weight or are nearly professional in any sort of sport, then start looking into them.

It seems everybody I know (and a lot of guys at my gym) are all taking some whey protein and creatine, yet they spend their time curling. I also think that almost everything in a gym should be abandoned (or reduced) with the exception of a squat rack and somewhere you can do dips/pull ups/chins. I’ve tried to help people before and they choose to ignore it and lift some home weights from Argos instead, whilst taking protein etc. The women would also prefer to ignore advice and take their wisdom from women’s magazines, so I say let them waste their money, whilst the few people who know what’s up can spend very little and make big gains.

4

I think the Arnold article was exceptionally poor. I wouldn’t trust his conclusions and frankly found it smelled of hype and self-promotion

Trusting results ovet research, yes, great, but surely there is a better article you could have linked to.

5

[quote=“Arteta”]I’ve always subscribed to the notion that one does not need any sort of supplement until they have reached what can be considered an advanced level. If you can’t lift your own body weight in any way then you don’t need them; if you can lift two times your body weight or are nearly professional in any sort of sport, then start looking into them.

It seems everybody I know (and a lot of guys at my gym) are all taking some whey protein and creatine, yet they spend their time curling. I also think that almost everything in a gym should be abandoned (or reduced) with the exception of a squat rack and somewhere you can do dips/pull ups/chins. I’ve tried to help people before and they choose to ignore it and lift some home weights from Argos instead, whilst taking protein etc. The women would also prefer to ignore advice and take their wisdom from women’s magazines, so I say let them waste their money, whilst the few people who know what’s up can spend very little and make big gains.[/quote]

Well, yes and no. Creatine and protein powder are two of the most widely researched supplements you can take. Their usefulness has been clearly demonstrated for a wide swath of fitness enthusiasts. I was reading the other day that they were giving creatine and protein powder to cancer patients in some places because it was easier for them to digest. That’s how useful those products are.

So I don’t think they are only for people that can already lift 2x body weight, not by a long shot.

But yeah, someone who curls in the squat rack likely shouldn’t be wasting their time with supplements. I assume they know they should be squatting, deadlifting, etc. but outside my own gym, that may not be the case. I’m quite proud of the fact that everyone at Formosa Fitness does the deadlift. I don’t think any other gym can say that. :slight_smile:

[quote=“Mucha Man”]I think the Arnold article was exceptionally poor. I wouldn’t trust his conclusions and frankly found it smelled of hype and self-promotion

Trusting results ovet research, yes, great, but surely there is a better article you could have linked to.[/quote]

Sorry you didn’t find it to your liking but I had it open in a tab when I read the above post. So it seemed timely and relevant. As long as you got the point of results over research then I think that’s good enough. The research will catch up…about 10 years later, as it usually does. :slight_smile:

6

Arnie? That’s the dude who’s so buff that he has pig valves in his heart, right? Or is that some other dude?

7

[quote=“Formosa Fitness”]Creatine and protein powder are two of the most widely researched supplements you can take. Their usefulness has been clearly demonstrated for a wide swath of fitness enthusiasts. I was reading the other day that they were giving creatine and protein powder to cancer patients in some places because it was easier for them to digest. That’s how useful those products are.

So I don’t think they are only for people that can already lift 2x body weight, not by a long shot.[/quote]
What about branched-chain amino acids? I’ve found bcaa’s to be effective in relieving muscle soreness from heavy squats and dead lifts, although the real muscle heads swear they’re also effective in protein synthesis and muscle building.

The latest what, fad is silk amino acids, SAA’s. A guy in the gym last week (coulda been a USN SEAL, they work out sometimes among us mere mortals here in Virginia Beach and this very fit guy was doing a VERY robust if quirky workout) swears they’re much better than bcaa’s.

What does your practical experience tell you about both bcaa’s and saa’s?

8

Very true. In my experience, old skool Converse Chuck Taylors work great for any kind of lifting that involves moving your feet under a loaded barbell.

Relatively cheap, too.

9

First, that BCAA pills cost a lot. Get powder if you can but dang does it taste terrible. True story, I got a BCAA pill caught in my throat and it dissolved. I coughed and a whole cloud of BCAAs came out. Tasted awful.

That said, a lot of people say they find BCAAs useful, others say there’s already enough in protein when consumed in quantity. My guess is if you feel it’s useful, then go for it. People’s protein sources are different, their situations are different, etc. A lot of people use BCAAs to do fasted workouts (on an empty stomach) and that’s certainly one use for them.

I don’t know much about SAAs.

About the Chuck’s, some people find them useful but having a flat sole isn’t so good for actual OL. Having the raised and solid heel makes a difference for the OL because that shift forward can assist in catching cleans, it helps with the first pull, and it feels noticeably different on the split jerks. But Converse is good for most lifting.

urodacus 10

urodacus 11

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:laughing:

Not THAT kind of high heels. The shoes FF is talking about look a little like Sunday church shoes Ronald MacDonald might wear. (btw, FF, I never put 2+2 together, form and function, re:OL shoes. Thanks for that. And I think I’ll wait for more feedback like yours before I spring for SAA’s - thanks man).

Edit: God the intarwebs have HOZED my memory, I swear. Modern OL shoes aren’t as bad as I made them out to be. They do look like exceptionally ugly bowling shoes, though … unless you’re sliding your feet together a couple hundred KG’s that is, when they probably begin to feel more like a godsend.

13

[quote=“Formosa Fitness”][quote=“Arteta”]I’ve always subscribed to the notion that one does not need any sort of supplement until they have reached what can be considered an advanced level. If you can’t lift your own body weight in any way then you don’t need them; if you can lift two times your body weight or are nearly professional in any sort of sport, then start looking into them.

It seems everybody I know (and a lot of guys at my gym) are all taking some whey protein and creatine, yet they spend their time curling. I also think that almost everything in a gym should be abandoned (or reduced) with the exception of a squat rack and somewhere you can do dips/pull ups/chins. I’ve tried to help people before and they choose to ignore it and lift some home weights from Argos instead, whilst taking protein etc. The women would also prefer to ignore advice and take their wisdom from women’s magazines, so I say let them waste their money, whilst the few people who know what’s up can spend very little and make big gains.[/quote]

Well, yes and no. Creatine and protein powder are two of the most widely researched supplements you can take. Their usefulness has been clearly demonstrated for a wide swath of fitness enthusiasts. I was reading the other day that they were giving creatine and protein powder to cancer patients in some places because it was easier for them to digest. That’s how useful those products are.

So I don’t think they are only for people that can already lift 2x body weight, not by a long shot.

But yeah, someone who curls in the squat rack likely shouldn’t be wasting their time with supplements. I assume they know they should be squatting, deadlifting, etc. but outside my own gym, that may not be the case. I’m quite proud of the fact that everyone at Formosa Fitness does the deadlift. I don’t think any other gym can say that. :slight_smile:[/quote]
In my experience of UK gyms i’d say that almost nobody squats and those that do cannot do them correctly, or even close. Most of them do quarter squats of anywhere between 60kg and 200kg. Some deadlift but they clearly don’t know how because they lift the same as what my girlfriend deadlifts. These aren’t just flashy gyms either, some are what I like to call ‘mens gyms’ (sexist, yes :smiley:).
If the majority at your gym are doing squats/deads then i’d say you’re doing a good job! I swear that 90% of the big guys here have small legs. Bench and curls seem to mean everything to them, so this is why I think people would be wasting their time with any supplements. If people lifted differently i’d have a different opinion.
It’s no exaggeration for me to say that i’ve known guys who have home weights of maybe 40kg max and they take creatine and even some of the ones who go to a gym have a poor lifting programme and still take the supplements. In my opinion (depending on your goal) I think that the priorities should be as follows:

  1. Training
  2. Diet
  3. Supplements (It’s all in the name really)

But it seems that quite a lot of guys put supplements at #1.

Also I didn’t know that about cancer patients. Very interesting :thumbsup:

14

Not THAT kind of high heels. The shoes FF is talking about look a little like Sunday church shoes Ronald MacDonald might wear. (btw, FF, I never put 2+2 together, form and function, re:OL shoes. Thanks for that. And I think I’ll wait for more feedback like yours before I spring for SAA’s - thanks man).

Edit: God the intarwebs have HOZED my memory, I swear. Modern OL shoes aren’t as bad as I made them out to be. They do look like exceptionally ugly bowling shoes, though … unless you’re sliding your feet together a couple hundred KG’s that is, when they probably begin to feel more like a godsend.

[/quote]

Thanks. Yeah, I didn’t get it either until I spent a week training under a Southeast Asian champion. He insisted I wear real OL shoes and showed me how they effect performance. check this out:

Notice how on the catch the guys feet are all over the place? That unsteadiness is not good – it messes up your technique and can lead to injury. Squatting in OL shoes feels so much better. That slight angle to heel allows me to get the quads a little better, making me more powerful out of the hole. I don’t squat in flat shoes any more now.

You’re right, they’ve come a long way in looks from what they used to be. The shoes in the clip above look pretty good and the Nikes are very good but very expensive. Asics makes a pair of OL shoes that I use but they’re a mid level shoe. Not as stiff as the real thing but enough stability for a beginner/intermediate.

[quote=“Arteta”]In my experience of UK gyms I’d say that almost nobody squats and those that do cannot do them correctly, or even close. Most of them do quarter squats of anywhere between 60kg and 200kg. Some deadlift but they clearly don’t know how because they lift the same as what my girlfriend deadlifts. These aren’t just flashy gyms either, some are what I like to call ‘mens gyms’ (sexist, yes :smiley:).
If the majority at your gym are doing squats/deads then I’d say you’re doing a good job! I swear that 90% of the big guys here have small legs. Bench and curls seem to mean everything to them, so this is why I think people would be wasting their time with any supplements. If people lifted differently I’d have a different opinion.
It’s no exaggeration for me to say that I’ve known guys who have home weights of maybe 40kg max and they take creatine and even some of the ones who go to a gym have a poor lifting programme and still take the supplements. In my opinion (depending on your goal) I think that the priorities should be as follows:

  1. Training
  2. Diet
  3. Supplements (It’s all in the name really)

But it seems that quite a lot of guys put supplements at #1.

Also I didn’t know that about cancer patients. Very interesting :thumbsup:[/quote]

Lifting 40kg and taking supplements?! Wow, that’s crazy. I hope they’re doing massive reps with maximum contraction. :laughing:

Your experience in the UK isn’t unusual. It’s commonplace in most gyms because there’s little instruction and the mass of uniformed people that work out there reinforce the lack of movement quality, etc. Basically no one is likely setting a good example so newbies won’t know what to do. Kicking knowledgeable people out (Planet Fitness in the States) makes things even worse.

I set up FF to be the opposite of all that. We teach in our group classes everyone to overhead press, deadlift and barbell squat.


Too bad the photographer snapped this picture early. We sometimes use the low box to insure folks are going low enough.


Here we’re teaching the general public how to deadlift. Notice that with good instruction a normal woman can pull 40kg on the first day. It really isn’t that hard.

Whatever you do, don’t let your buddies become this guy:

:slight_smile: Squats and deads for the win.

15

Haha awesome. If I ever make it to Taiwan then i’ll probably come to your gym (if it’s nearby to wherever I live)!

We don’t have Planet Fitness in the UK, but i’ve heard of people getting kicked out of the gym for lifting heavy weights and also course dropping them (necessarily I think though).

16

I train 4x a week using Wendler’s 5/3/1.

Just throwing in my :2cents: … BCAAs are almost useless unless you’re doing IF or leangains (because you can take them when you’re fasting to feed your muscles a little - but although, even then, they’re not necessary) You get BCAAs in your standard whey protein and in food (examples, meat, almonds, cashews, eggs, fish, chicken, chickpeas, lentils), so forking out for an expensive supplement that is plentiful in a standard diet is silly. Also, powdered form is f’cking disgusting.

Products I use:
Whey - because I need about 160g protein a day, but I don’t want to eat that much.
Beta alanine - a great little supplement that gradually builds up in your body. It acts as the rate limiter for carnosine, so an increased in bA means an increase in carnosine, and over time it decreases fatigue.
Multi and fish oil.

I lift in Vans, or barefooted if I’m deadlifting or doing cleans.

17

People unhappy with their Vibram Five Fingers will be able to claim compensation: consumerist.com/2014/05/08/shoes … ettlement/

18

I want to sue apple for making a shit cell phone that drops calls all the time!

One of my relatives bought into the vibrant thing, just slick marketing of a piece of plastic/rubber.

19

hmm. Weird stuff happens at the intersection of science and the law.

I don’t like the idea of the “naturalistic fallacy”, partly because we have no sensible definition of “natural”, and partly because nature does, in fact, achieve objectively better results than human technology more often than not. The original form of the fallacy is that nature defines “better”. But that’s not a fallacy - it’s just an opinion, not the outcome of a (faulty) line of reasoning.

This thread is an example in itself: all those supposedly scientifically-engineered nutrition products are basically snake oil. A good healthy diet is the basis of any sports nutrition programme, not pills and potions.

As for the shoes, I did a bit of googling and they don’t seem to have made any extraordinary or unrealistic claims for it. The principle seems sound; I can see it might be useful for certain people who take the time to re-develop atrophied muscles, and who need it for certain applications (the manufacturers imply it’s good for people whose hobbies need, well, prehensile toes). As for everyone else, it seems to me the fault lies entirely with consumers for expecting a shoe to work miracles.

20

American advertising law is very clear, any claims that you are better than other products need to be backed up with facts. No independent data then you expose yourself like vibrams.