Latency Issues

Life Technology
1

This is a continuation of a thread I created a while ago on latency while laying World of Warcraft, although now I have a new ADSL modem, have formatted my system, bought 2 new hard drives, had my connection wire replaced andhad my configuration checked by Hinet techies as they set up my 12M/1M connection. I ran something called a ‘tracert’, which appears to ping each individual ‘hop’ a data packet makes as it makes its journey towards its destination. They look like this:

(11:30pm Taiwan time - latency between 600 and 700)
Tracing route to us.logon.worldofwarcraft.com [12.129.232.112]over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 49 ms 46 ms 46 ms 61-217-32-254.dynamic.hinet.net [61.217.32.254]
2 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms tp-e4-c6r5.router.hinet.net [168.95.100.82]
3 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms tp-e4-c12r1.router.hinet.net [211.22.36.2]
4 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms tp-s2-c12r1.router.hinet.net [210.65.2.130]
5 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms tp-s2-c12r11.router.hinet.net [220.128.1.114]
6 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms tp-s2-c12r6.router.hinet.net [220.128.1.85]
7 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms tp-s2-c12r32.router.hinet.net [211.72.233.11]
8 280 ms 280 ms 265 ms pa-c12r12.USA-PAIX.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.121]
9 171 ms 171 ms 171 ms pa-c12r11.USA-PAIX.router.hinet.net [202.39.83.189]
10 171 ms 171 ms 187 ms 12.118.116.73
11 171 ms 171 ms 171 ms tbr2-p014002.sffca.ip.att.net [12.123.12.134]
12 171 ms 171 ms 171 ms gar3-p370.sffca.ip.att.net [12.123.13.161]
13 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms mdf1-gsr12-2-pos-7-0.lax1.attens.net [12.122.255.254]
14 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms mdf1-bi8k-2-eth-1-4.lax1.attens.net [12.129.192.58]
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.
Trace complete.

‘Hop’ number 8 seems to show that a Hinet router is causing a latency problem whan playing World of Warcraft, and Blizzard have said the same i.e that it’s a local ISP routing issue and needs to be resolved with them. The Hinet techies said they think its a US side issue and that all they can do is give me an email to send the tracert files I made to. They weren’t sure about follow up and their English ws so-so, although they left me a card. Does anyone have any know-how about this, or know any Chinese people who know about this kind of thing AND speak good English. Naturally, I would pay for their help, cos this just annoys the hell out of me when I suffer such high latency in-game compared to my friend in Japan and Korea who get 250-300ms. Please help…

2

There is no obvious problem from your traceroute command. In particular, the jump you see in timing is almost certainly due to the Pacific Ocean.

#8 & #9 are the last two machines in Taiwan, and (from their name) heavy duty machines for handling the connection to the US. #10 is the first machine in the US.
You’d expect a jump in timings when you move from Taiwan to the US - and the fact you get that jump just before you leave Taiwan is (almost certainly) an artefact of how the last Taiwanese routers handle traffic - they’re so optimised to relaying stuff to the US, that all their responses are in that timeframe.

You can compare your traceroute figures with figures directly from hinet here:
traceroute.hinet.net/cgi-bin/tracert.pl
I got a jump of 132ms when I tried it just now - in line with your figures.

For comparison, try this traceroute test for delay across the Atlantic:
thunder.orbital.net/traceroute.html
Going from London-NY takes about 70ms (and then there was another 70ms traversing the US). Given that the Atlantic is much smaller than the Pacific, it seems comparable.

So, I don’t think your problem is here. What about other issues:

  • Have you got a P2P app chewing up bandwidth in the background?
  • Have you tested your overall speed? Try using this tool:
    dslreports.com/stest
    (Just because Hinet say they’re giving you 12M/1M, it doesn’t mean they actually are!)
3

[quote=“david”]There is no obvious problem from your traceroute command. In particular, the jump you see in timing is almost certainly due to the Pacific Ocean.

#8 & #9 are the last two machines in Taiwan, and (from their name) heavy duty machines for handling the connection to the US. #10 is the first machine in the US.
You’d expect a jump in timings when you move from Taiwan to the US - and the fact you get that jump just before you leave Taiwan is (almost certainly) an artefact of how the last Taiwanese routers handle traffic - they’re so optimised to relaying stuff to the US, that all their responses are in that timeframe.

You can compare your traceroute figures with figures directly from hinet here:
traceroute.hinet.net/cgi-bin/tracert.pl
I got a jump of 132ms when I tried it just now - in line with your figures.

For comparison, try this traceroute test for delay across the Atlantic:
thunder.orbital.net/traceroute.html
Going from London-NY takes about 70ms (and then there was another 70ms traversing the US). Given that the Atlantic is much smaller than the Pacific, it seems comparable.

So, I don’t think your problem is here. What about other issues:

  • Have you got a P2P app chewing up bandwidth in the background?
  • Have you tested your overall speed? Try using this tool:
    dslreports.com/stest
    (Just because Hinet say they’re giving you 12M/1M, it doesn’t mean they actually are!)[/quote]

KK, thanks for the quick reply. What confuses me though is that my mates in Korea and Japan are getting 250-300ms. Could this be due to better infrastructure to support online gaming? If so, do you have any idea whether any companies provide special services for this kind of service? Also, should I be getting the ping shown on hop 8?

4

OK, I have finally gone mad over this. I bought a licensed copy of WinXP Pro, a new D-Link ethernet card, disabled my old on-board Marvell Yukon ethernet card, did a clean reinstall and defrag (again), emailed Hinet to reroute my connection to the US (got no reply), and now, when I play WOW my latency is always over 500, usually close to 800 without anyone sharing my connection, 100MBFull Duplex forced, Hardware Checksumming off, file and remote printer sharing etc off. My tracert now looks like this out of game:

Tracing route to us.logon.worldofwarcraft.com [12.129.232.109]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 43 ms 31 ms 31 ms 61-217-32-254.dynamic.hinet.net [61.217.32.254]

2 31 ms 62 ms 30 ms tp-e4-c6r5.router.hinet.net [168.95.100.82]

3 46 ms 31 ms 31 ms tp-e4-c12r2.router.hinet.net [211.22.36.130]

4 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms tp-s2-c12r2.router.hinet.net [210.65.200.130]

5 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms tp-s2-c12r12.router.hinet.net [220.128.2.114]

6 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms tp-s2-c12r6.router.hinet.net [220.128.2.85]

7 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms tp-s2-c108-85.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.85]

8 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms pa-c12r12.USA-PAIX.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.165]

9 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms pa-c12r11.USA-PAIX.router.hinet.net [202.39.83.193]

10 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms 12.118.116.73

11 187 ms 202 ms 203 ms tbr1-p013501.sffca.ip.att.net [12.123.12.130]

12 187 ms 203 ms 187 ms tbr1-cl3.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.10.26]

13 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms 12.127.3.185

14 202 ms 187 ms 296 ms 12.122.255.74

15 202 ms 202 ms 202 ms mdf001c7613r0004-gig-12-1.lax1.attens.net [12.129.193.246]

16 * * * Request timed out.

17 * * * Request timed out.

18 * * * Request timed out.

19 * * * Request timed out.

20 * * * Request timed out.

21 * * * Request timed out.

22 * * * Request timed out.

23 * * * Request timed out.

24 * * * Request timed out.

25 * * * Request timed out.

26 * * * Request timed out.

27 * * * Request timed out.

28 * * * Request timed out.

29 * * * Request timed out.

30 * * * Request timed out.

and in game, looks like this:

Tracing route to us.logon.worldofwarcraft.com [12.129.232.109]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 33 ms 31 ms 30 ms 61-217-32-254.dynamic.hinet.net [61.217.32.254]

2 30 ms 46 ms 31 ms tp-e4-c6r5.router.hinet.net [168.95.100.82]

3 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms tp-e4-c12r2.router.hinet.net [211.22.36.130]

4 31 ms 30 ms 30 ms tp-s2-c12r2.router.hinet.net [210.65.200.130]

5 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms tp-s2-c12r12.router.hinet.net [220.128.2.114]

6 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms tp-s2-c12r6.router.hinet.net [220.128.2.85]

7 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms tp-s2-c108-85.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.85]

8 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms pa-c12r12.USA-PAIX.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.165]

9 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms pa-c12r11.USA-PAIX.router.hinet.net [202.39.83.193]

10 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms 12.118.116.73

11 187 ms 202 ms 187 ms tbr1-p013501.sffca.ip.att.net [12.123.12.130]

12 202 ms 202 ms 187 ms tbr1-cl3.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.122.10.26]

13 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms 12.127.3.185

14 202 ms 202 ms 187 ms 12.122.255.74

15 202 ms 202 ms 202 ms mdf001c7613r0004-gig-12-1.lax1.attens.net [12.129.193.246]

16 * * * Request timed out.

17 * * * Request timed out.

18 * * * Request timed out.

19 * * * Request timed out.

20 * * * Request timed out.

21 * * * Request timed out.

22 * * * Request timed out.

23 * * * Request timed out.

24 * * * Request timed out.

25 * * * Request timed out.

26 * * * Request timed out.

27 * * * Request timed out.

28 * * * Request timed out.

29 * * * Request timed out.

30 * * * Request timed out.

I have decided that I badly need the services of a Chinese speaking computer / internet / network expert, who can com to my house, check my computer and its configuration. Can anyone reccommend such a person?

5

I think the only way you can improve your speed is to get a fiber optic connection (called “FTTC” for “fiber to the curb”, “FTTH” for “fiber to the home”, or “FTTX” for either).

But as of now, you can only get FTTX if you are in Xin-Dian. See this thread for more details:

forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?p=506882

6

There’s nothing wrong with Hinet’s network in that traceroute. Do the same traceroute from www.nwtools.com and it’ll timeout at the same router. There’s a routing problem at that last router and you’ll just have to wait until it gets corrected.

7

The timeout at the end is due to WoW servers being protected by firewall, so tracerts always time out. What I am so concerned about is why my in-game latency is SO MUCH GREATER than my tracert. I know it should be higher, but not so high that my latency in-game is 600-800 with firewalls disabled, WinXP SP2 updated, all drivers updated. I noticed that the cable that my ADSL PC cable links too is very old. Hinet say they have tested the connection outside, but in game my latency also fluctuates a lot. Blizzard applied a new hotfix last night, and for a while it went to 411ms, but kept going up and down between 400 and 800. Any ideas?

8

Well, latency on a ping and latency on a persistent connection are different things, at least from my fairly minimal understanding of teh intarweb. Perhaps HiNet have router or cheap-bastard issues with long-running connections?

9

The timeout at the end is due to WoW servers being protected by firewall, so tracerts always time out. What I am so concerned about is why my in-game latency is SO MUCH GREATER than my tracert. I know it should be higher, but not so high that my latency in-game is 600-800 with firewalls disabled, WinXP SP2 updated, all drivers updated. I noticed that the cable that my ADSL PC cable links too is very old. Hinet say they have tested the connection outside, but in game my latency also fluctuates a lot. Blizzard applied a new hotfix last night, and for a while it went to 411ms, but kept going up and down between 400 and 800. Any ideas?[/quote]

Just a guess, but the latency would seem to be with your application, your CPU or the latency is on the server side at WoW. The tracert latency to WoW is about 200ms which is about right with the hop over the Pacific. So the extra latency is not in the link which means it isn’t HiNet’s problem.

Tracert is an application that doesn’t use any protocols aside from TCP/IP. That means the only protocols being used are network protocols and so the only processing has to do with the sending and receiving of TCP/IP packets. But the game you are playing goes much higher than the TCP level. It is probably using higher level communication protocols between your computer and the server you are connected to because TCP/IP only handles the network connection. Moreover, you are playing a game so your comptuer has to process all the information being sent dealing with the state of the game which if aI am not mistaken runs in real time. Also, the game is multiplayer, so there are many other users communicating with that server. So that can burden the server.

I know this doesn’t solve your problem, but I think you should just stick with talking to WoW to troubleshoot the problem.

Good Luck.

10

Hinet’s gateway to the US has always been crap and always will be.

[quote] 7 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms tp-s2-c108-85.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.85]

8 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms pa-c12r12.USA-PAIX.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.165] [/quote]

There is a Commodore 64 at Chunghwa handling all traffic from Taiwan to The World. I doubt it’s possible to avoid it.

11

[quote=“Lord Lucan”]Hinet’s gateway to the US has always been crap and always will be.

[quote] 7 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms tp-s2-c108-85.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.85]

8 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms pa-c12r12.USA-PAIX.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.165] [/quote]

There is a Commodore 64 at Chunghwa (Zhonghua) handling all traffic from Taiwan to The World. I doubt it’s possible to avoid it.[/quote]

Is there an ISP which offers better infrastructure for gaming support? I get a feeling that all hardwars is owned by Chunghwa and therefore the same problem will exist no matter where I go. Still, its strange that people in Japan with 10MB dedicated Cable Modems get such low latency. Are such connections available in Taiwan, or is the service here just crap? Period?

12

[quote=“Reaperjim”][quote=“Lord Lucan”]Hinet’s gateway to the US has always been crap and always will be.

[quote] 7 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms tp-s2-c108-85.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.85]

8 187 ms 187 ms 187 ms pa-c12r12.USA-PAIX.router.hinet.net [211.72.108.165] [/quote]

There is a Commodore 64 at Chunghwa (Zhonghua) (Zhonghua) handling all traffic from Taiwan to The World. I doubt it’s possible to avoid it.[/quote]

Is there an ISP which offers better infrastructure for gaming support? I get a feeling that all hardwars is owned by Chunghwa (Zhonghua) and therefore the same problem will exist no matter where I go. Still, its strange that people in Japan with 10MB dedicated Cable Modems get such low latency. Are such connections available in Taiwan, or is the service here just crap? Period?[/quote]

I don’t think you can get off the island without going through that router. Unless there is a HK route? Is there a direct link to Japan?

Dunno about Japan. Maybe they have a special setup for gamers there that plugs their cable connections right into the backbone without bouncing them around some load sharing setup at the ISP.

I have always thought it best to go with the backbone ower. I used to use Pipex in the UK and I use Hinet here. But I’m not a gamer. I suspect a lot of Taiwanese gamers play within Taiwan so the throttle/delay on the bean-tin string to California doesn’t bother them. I dunno.

13

Ever figure out what the problem was?

My WoW was fine for a while, but about six weeks ago started becoming almost unplayable (anywhere between every 10 seconds and every few minutes, I’ll get a lag of between five seconds and two minutes; much worse in evenings and weekends).
They had me do a tracert to the Taiwan WoW site, even though I play overseas servers, and it failed at line 1. Regardless, they have finally said they’ve already tried to fix it. Since gameplay hasn’t changed a bit on my end, I’m probably going to try to go with ADSL and just hope its better.

The odd thing is that another friend of mine plays the same servers, uses the same cable company (Dongsen), and has no problems whatsoever.

I don’t need consistent 300 ping… I felt that even at 800 ping it wasn’t too bad… But this frequent one-minute lag stuff is just ridiculous.

14

[quote=“littleiron”]Ever figure out what the problem was?

My WoW was fine for a while, but about six weeks ago started becoming almost unplayable (anywhere between every 10 seconds and every few minutes, I’ll get a lag of between five seconds and two minutes; much worse in evenings and weekends).
They had me do a tracert to the Taiwan WoW site, even though I play overseas servers, and it failed at line 1. Regardless, they have finally said they’ve already tried to fix it. Since gameplay hasn’t changed a bit on my end, I’m probably going to try to go with ADSL and just hope its better.

The odd thing is that another friend of mine plays the same servers, uses the same cable company (Dongsen), and has no problems whatsoever.

I don’t need consistent 300 ping… I felt that even at 800 ping it wasn’t too bad… But this frequent one-minute lag stuff is just ridiculous.[/quote]

The problem was the patch where Blizzard allowed weapon buffs to presist through zoning. My PC and connection were fine. My lag is now about 400 when I play. That’s fine for my Shaman. Most likely high latency on your side would be either a virus or router issues if u have one, that is.