Learning Chinese in Taiwan vs mainland China, will you get a Taiwanese accent?

Zhengzhou2010 · April 15, 2015, 2:00am

Pennsylvania?? lol…I don’t think I would consider Pittsburgh or Philly accents “standard” American English. I’ve always heard that St. Louis is considered pretty much neutral American English.

Anyway, I agree with your point though. Taiwan accent is perfectly fine. I began my Mandarin study in San Francisco and looked down on the Taiwan accent, but now I realize it is an easily understood and fairly standard Mandarin accent. I’ve heard many mainlanders say that they find the Taiwanese accent pleasing to the ear.[/quote]

This got me thinking about how often I hear a Taiwanese or Chinese person speaking English with a discernible “authentic” accent. I haven’t really paid attention to it, but my sense is “very rarely.”

To clarify, I would exclude ABCs, BBCs, and other persons of Taiwanese or Chinese ethnicity who were born or largely grew up in English speaking societies. Such persons naturally would have authentic accents in their English. Likewise, I’d imagine that a Taiwanese person who may have moved to the U.S. as an adult but has lived here for 30 years may also have picked up a noticeable American accent in their English.

But for most Taiwanese or Chinese people in Taiwan and China, who studied English in their schools and maybe through some private courses as well, but who haven’t lived in an English speaking country for any significant period of time, I’d be hard pressed to name a single instance where I noticed an “authentic” accent on their English. Usually, I just “hear” English with a Chinese accent, with no hint as to whether they learned American, British or any other variety of English. Perhaps if I paid greater attention, I might be able to detect some underlying accent (and my American ears probably automatically filter out American accents).

Of course HK and SG people are somewhat exceptions as well given that both societies have long standing policies of English education and use, and have developed their own authentic/native accents for English (although, clearly they are still largely influenced by Chinese).

Although my accent has long since faded, I was born and raised in Boston. I’ve always wondered how a hard core Bostonian, with our famous habit of dropping Rs, and adding them back in unusual places, would deal with speaking in the various Chinese accents. Would a Beijing er-hua 哪兒sound like “naah”? Would a Taiwanese inflected 哪裡 come out like “naleer”?

Taiwanguy · April 15, 2015, 11:13am

[quote=“tommy525”]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXbFqTNXqwY

She sounds pretty much like a Taiwanese girl [/quote]

She definitely sounds like a Taiwanese girl. Very accurate accent. Misses a few tones, though.

Chris · April 15, 2015, 2:12pm

Would be easier to hear her without the music.

jamezku · June 27, 2015, 6:00am

[quote=“2555chris”]Hi
I was talking with my friend today here in Bangkok today ,
her daughter has gone to the USA for 1 year of High School ,

now her Mom would like her to learn Chinese and its also much closer than the USA !

But I was wondering if you get a Taiwanese accent if learning in Taiwan and if that can be a negative in the future ?

I have no idea , it just was something that came up today and was an interesting angle

your thoughts ?

Thanks for any ideas[/quote]

I think it makes more sense to learn Mandarin in Taiwan, as you can read Simplified Chinese easily if you understand Traditional Chinese.

The accent part is not a big issue.

I picked up a China accent within a week, but the slangs and jargons take a much longer time to pick up.

Americans say British have an English accent, and British think less of You when you have an American accent, but at the end of the day, you are still judged on a personal level, and your accent shouldn’t make that much of a difference after you get to really know the person.

Just my two cents, thanks.

nightyuuna · July 3, 2015, 12:06am

Even as I learned Chinese mainly in the States (Saturday Chinese lessons), I still acquired a Taiwanese accent. I think obviously because my own parents were born and raised in Taiwan, and my instructors were Taiwanese, too. It appears that Taiwanese accent is recognizable among native Chinese speakers. I’ve had my Chinese teachers remark on my clear, “obviously Taiwanese” eununciations, from when I was studying briefly in Shanghai. As for how this would be an advantage or disadvantage, I’m not informed, sorry.

Ermintrude · July 3, 2015, 5:51am

Someone joked today (in the glorious PRC) that I am a Taiwanren that doesn’t belong to China hahaha. People tell me I have a strong accent, but that I still sound like a foreigner. It really doesn’t matter if you can take care of your shit.

jamezku · July 3, 2015, 2:04pm

I agree

Zhengzhou2010 · July 16, 2015, 2:21am

I recently met a gentleman from Quanzhou, Fujian. He could speak Minnan and Mandarin fluently, and we chatted away in a mix of the two languages. His Minnan was pretty close to Taiwanee Hokkien in terms of accent and pronunciation with only a few words here and there that sounded a bit different to me. One example is that when he said 話 it sounded like “we” rather than “whey” as in Taiwanese. Nonetheless, it was much easier for me to understand his Minnan then when I’ve spoken to Filipino Chinese Minnan speakers (I could mostly understand what they were saying but the accent and pronunciation was real different).

His Mandarin, however, was very interesting. Certainly it had a lot of accent similarities to Taiwanese Mandarin, but it also had an almost Taiwan Guoyu ring to it. He frequently mixed his “h” with and “f”, and transposed his “l” and “n” sounds. That being said, his Mandarin has a slightly more “throaty” sound and was a bit less lyrical than the Taiwanese accent. Also he lived in Beijing for a long time and he would occasionally throw in a somewhat discordant “r” or “sh” sound.

jamezku · July 17, 2015, 10:50am

[quote=“Zhengzhou2010”]I recently met a gentleman from Quanzhou, Fujian. He could speak Minnan and Mandarin fluently, and we chatted away in a mix of the two languages. His Minnan was pretty close to Taiwanee Hokkien in terms of accent and pronunciation with only a few words here and there that sounded a bit different to me. One example is that when he said 話 it sounded like “we” rather than “whey” as in Taiwanese. Nonetheless, it was much easier for me to understand his Minnan then when I’ve spoken to Filipino Chinese Minnan speakers (I could mostly understand what they were saying but the accent and pronunciation was real different).

His Mandarin, however, was very interesting. Certainly it had a lot of accent similarities to Taiwanese Mandarin, but it also had an almost Taiwan Guoyu ring to it. He frequently mixed his “h” with and “f”, and transposed his “l” and “n” sounds. That being said, his Mandarin has a slightly more “throaty” sound and was a bit less lyrical than the Taiwanese accent. Also he lived in Beijing for a long time and he would occasionally throw in a somewhat discordant “r” or “sh” sound.[/quote]

If you ever go to Xiamen, they speak Taiwanese with a Mainland twist, so it’s interesting…

Zhengzhou2010 · July 17, 2015, 3:25pm

[quote=“jamezku”][quote=“Zhengzhou2010”]I recently met a gentleman from Quanzhou, Fujian. He could speak Minnan and Mandarin fluently, and we chatted away in a mix of the two languages. His Minnan was pretty close to Taiwanee Hokkien in terms of accent and pronunciation with only a few words here and there that sounded a bit different to me. One example is that when he said 話 it sounded like “we” rather than “whey” as in Taiwanese. Nonetheless, it was much easier for me to understand his Minnan then when I’ve spoken to Filipino Chinese Minnan speakers (I could mostly understand what they were saying but the accent and pronunciation was real different).

His Mandarin, however, was very interesting. Certainly it had a lot of accent similarities to Taiwanese Mandarin, but it also had an almost Taiwan Guoyu ring to it. He frequently mixed his “h” with and “f”, and transposed his “l” and “n” sounds. That being said, his Mandarin has a slightly more “throaty” sound and was a bit less lyrical than the Taiwanese accent. Also he lived in Beijing for a long time and he would occasionally throw in a somewhat discordant “r” or “sh” sound.[/quote]

If you ever go to Xiamen, they speak Taiwanese with a Mainland twist, so it’s interesting…[/quote]

Yeah, some of my Taiwanese friends report the same. They said Xiameners could understand their Taiwanese better than they could enderstand their Minnan.

jamezku · August 3, 2015, 5:25am

[quote=“Zhengzhou2010”][quote=“jamezku”][quote=“Zhengzhou2010”]I recently met a gentleman from Quanzhou, Fujian. He could speak Minnan and Mandarin fluently, and we chatted away in a mix of the two languages. His Minnan was pretty close to Taiwanee Hokkien in terms of accent and pronunciation with only a few words here and there that sounded a bit different to me. One example is that when he said 話 it sounded like “we” rather than “whey” as in Taiwanese. Nonetheless, it was much easier for me to understand his Minnan then when I’ve spoken to Filipino Chinese Minnan speakers (I could mostly understand what they were saying but the accent and pronunciation was real different).

His Mandarin, however, was very interesting. Certainly it had a lot of accent similarities to Taiwanese Mandarin, but it also had an almost Taiwan Guoyu ring to it. He frequently mixed his “h” with and “f”, and transposed his “l” and “n” sounds. That being said, his Mandarin has a slightly more “throaty” sound and was a bit less lyrical than the Taiwanese accent. Also he lived in Beijing for a long time and he would occasionally throw in a somewhat discordant “r” or “sh” sound.[/quote]

If you ever go to Xiamen, they speak Taiwanese with a Mainland twist, so it’s interesting…[/quote]

Yeah, some of my Taiwanese friends report the same. They said Xiameners could understand their Taiwanese better than they could enderstand their Minnan.[/quote]

Language is just a bridge between people, and China has like 100 dialects, just be good at Putonghwa and you will do fine anywhere.

Dialects take longer to pick up.

Hokwongwei · August 3, 2015, 3:44pm

To totally divert the conversation… “Dialect” is a very demeaning word that doesn’t make sense when applied to languages like Tibetan. In no possible sense of the word can Tibetan be considered a “dialect” of Mandarin.

jamezku · August 4, 2015, 2:10pm

Whoever said Tibetan is a dialect?

I certainly didn’t mention it.

In fact, I’m learning the language Tibetan now, and any language with a written language is not a dialect.

Please Hokwongwei, stop being so sensitive.

BTW, did I tell you Taiwanese is a language and not a dialect too?

Hokwongwei · August 4, 2015, 5:47pm

I’m not being sensitive, I’m being scientific. Dialect is not a real term used in the Lingusitics community because it implies superiority of one variety of a language over another. The famous quote is of course: “A language is a dialect with an army and a navy.”

This is not so much a case of Chinese propaganda as it is of mistranslation. 方語 is an inoffensive name for regional languages – it literally means “regional language” – but it’s typically translated as “dialect.” Traditinoally speaking, a dialect would be the difference between Cockney English and RP and California English, all dialects of the English language. As Mandarin and Cantonese and Hokkien are mutually unintelligable, the term is not appropriate. And Taiwanese is called a 方語 in China, the same way that Tibetan is, so whatever designation we give to one, we must give to the other.

So my point is that Putonghua is not a dialect, it’s a language. There is a Beijing regional variation of Putonghua (extra rs) and a Taiwan variation of Putonghua (soft tones and no 捲舌) and a Chongqing variation of Putonghua, but it’s all 99% the same. Cantonese, Wu, Hokkien, Hakka… these are about as related to Putonghua as Italian is to French.

jamezku · August 5, 2015, 4:30am

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]I’m not being sensitive, I’m being scientific. Dialect is not a real term used in the Lingusitics community because it implies superiority of one variety of a language over another. The famous quote is of course: “A language is a dialect with an army and a navy.”

This is not so much a case of Chinese propaganda as it is of mistranslation. 方語 is an inoffensive name for regional languages – it literally means “regional language” – but it’s typically translated as “dialect.” Traditinoally speaking, a dialect would be the difference between Cockney English and RP and California English, all dialects of the English language. As Mandarin and Cantonese and Hokkien are mutually unintelligable, the term is not appropriate. And Taiwanese is called a 方語 in China, the same way that Tibetan is, so whatever designation we give to one, we must give to the other.

So my point is that Putonghua is not a dialect, it’s a language. There is a Beijing regional variation of Putonghua (extra rs) and a Taiwan variation of Putonghua (soft tones and no 捲舌) and a Chongqing variation of Putonghua, but it’s all 99% the same. Cantonese, Wu, Hokkien, Hakka… these are about as related to Putonghua as Italian is to French.[/quote]

Are you telling me that 方言 is more politically correct than dialect, in that dialect gives a condescending tone, and 方言 does not?

Perhaps you should improve your English fluency before you comment, or improve your Chinese history too.

In English, a dialect is a spoken language without a written form, in that sense California English, Midwest English and Cockney English would not be dialects but just have different accents and minor differences in vocabulary and tones.

That is why Tibetan is NOT a dialect, and Taiwanese and Cantonese are actually dialects.

In Ancient China during Tang Dynasty, people actually spoke a dialect similar to the Taiwanese we speak today, that is why all the Buddhist Sutras and Tang Poems actually rhyme better if you read them out loud in Taiwanese.

BTW, Putonghua is a dialect too, it’s just a spoken language made popular by people in Beijing.

That’s my two cents

Hokwongwei · August 5, 2015, 4:57am

Whoops, I wrote 方語 cause I know someone with that name. 方言 is correct.

Your condescending two cents are based on… what exactly? Let’s start with the 通俗 source. Wikipedia says

Miriam Webster: a form of a language that is spoken in a particular area and that uses some of its own words, grammar, and pronunciations.

Cantonese doesn’t use “some” of its own words, grammar, and pronunciation – it’s totally uninteligible when spoken, and even in writing it’s greatly different from standard Mandarin.

Take it up a notch. The%20Economist says “By the comprehensibility criterion, Cantonese is not a dialect of Chinese. Rather it is a language, as are Shanghaiese, Mandarin and other kinds of Chinese.”

But why trust the dictionary and The Economist? Take it from experts at UC San Diego (“From a linguistic point of view, there is no such thing” as a dialect) or Stanford (linguistics don’t accept the socio-political definition of dialect “meaning ‘nonstandard’ or ‘substandard’ speech, or the speech of people from other regions besides one’s own.”)

So. Can I keep your two cents, then?

Ermintrude · August 5, 2015, 5:13am

[quote=“jamezku”][quote=“Hokwongwei”]I’m not being sensitive, I’m being scientific. Dialect is not a real term used in the Lingusitics community because it implies superiority of one variety of a language over another. The famous quote is of course: “A language is a dialect with an army and a navy.”