Learning Japanese

Agreed. I spent at least 100 hours the first month I started learning Mandarin learning how to pronounce Mandarin phonemes and tones. I was constantly listening to the tapes and reviewing my pronunciation with the professor and teaching assistant.[/quote]

I still work on my Mandarin pronunciation and I’ve been at the language for years :slight_smile:

I do think adults can reach native-level; it just takes lots of consistent, dedicated effort that most people don’t have time for or just don’t want to do. Students studying Chinese back home as adults don’t have a chance, I think.

I don’t really care if I reach native-level in Japanese or not. I just want to have some fun with the language and need to learn how to read it.

I wouldn’t want to lose my accent entirely. I think that for adult learners/speakers of a second language an accent is natural and even a mark of distinction (as long as it’s not a ridiculous accent). It tells people that you’ve taken the time to learn the language, and it also lets them know that when you phrase something awkwardly it’s not because you’re stupid, but because you’re speaking in a second language.

You’re joking, right?

So when you swim, you try not to swim too well so people know you took the time to learn to swim?

When you talk about something technical in English, do you feign a foreign accent so people know that if you phrase something awkwardly it’s because you don’t know the field too well?

Let’s be honest here: If you have an accent, it’s not because you want to keep it, it’s because you can’t get rid of it.

Well, but maybe, getting rid of an accent is just not worth the time. You can spend the time for other matters in that language much more efficiently.

Er, I think they’ll figure out at a glance that Mandarin is not my first language. No accent needed for that. :smiley:

You’re joking, right?

So when you swim, you try not to swim too well so people know you took the time to learn to swim?

When you talk about something technical in English, do you feign a foreign accent so people know that if you phrase something awkwardly it’s because you don’t know the field too well?

Let’s be honest here: If you have an accent, it’s not because you want to keep it, it’s because you can’t get rid of it.[/quote][/quote]

No, I’m not joking. And you’re half right – it is because I can’t get rid of it, but it is also that I’m happy to keep a bit of an accent. That is to say, I’d be happiest having the least accent possible, but still a bit of one, for exactly the reasons I mentioned in my first email (for those reasons, the swimming and “something technical” analogy don’t really apply).

I’m honest in recognizing that because I learned Mandarin as an adult, I’ll never speak the language quite natively. I’m more concerned about improving my grammar and word choice than I am about getting rid of my accent. I would only want to have a perfect accent after I had “perfected” those to my satisfaction, which is not imminent.

To put this in perspective, my Chinese is very fluent, and I can read and write Chinese slightly better than I speak it (because of the “real time” performance gap). Having a slight accent somehow puts that inperspective for a listener. If I’d come to Taiwan before the age of 9 (in linguistics, a generally recognized, though very rough and varying, cutoff point for achieving true native fluency), I’d be disappointed if I still had an accent.

My feelings exactly (again, provided that we’re not talking about a ridiculous or hard-to-comprehend accent).

My feelings exactly (again, provided that we’re not talking about a ridiculous or hard-to-comprehend accent).[/quote]

Exactly. From my experience with foreigners, I think a good level is achieved where I can talk to the foreigner without having to think about that he will not understand everything I say to him. That means that I will talk to him like I would talk to a native. I don’t really care if he has an accent, as long as his grammar and word choice is fine. I think, many natives from other regions speak in a weird matter, why should I then care about a foreigner who cannot speak perfectly.

You may or may not care about your accent, you may or may not think it’s worth your while, but to claim that having an accent is a good thing, almost as it if were a goal, is an entirely different thing. One which doesn’t make any sense at all.

For my part, I don’t claim having an accent is a “goal,” I just see it as a part of life, and a part which I’m glad to embrace – to just the extent, and for the reasons, that I wrote in my earlier messages. I don’t cultivate, or deliberately try to keep, an accent, but I’m perfectly happy (read “well content” not “ecstatic”) to have a slight one.

Some accents are good --like sexy ones, though I don’t claim my accent is sexy in the least! Some are bad, like ridiculous sounding incomprehensible ones. But all are part of the spice of life. Would you really rather that everyone speak in bland neutral accents giving no hint of their backgrounds or origins?

Just found this article that i think provides a really good explanation:

“Against Marking Accent Locations in Japanese Textbooks”
hasegawa.berkeley.edu/Accent/accent.html

Well, I’ve been going to the buxiban for almost a year. I can translate small texts but really badly. heck if I can hold any simple conversation. I am not retaining the vocabulary. But my written Chinese is improving a lot!

I’m too old for this. But I will stick with it and maybe something will stick.

so are they shoveling Chinese characters at you while learning Japanese? Doh.

Though the teacher likes to remind everyone the first test is all in hiragana. :smiling_imp:

There are a lot of grammar explanations. Vocabulary translations are in Chinese, too. The kanji is occasionally quite different but it makes me confused when reading small passages. First thing that come out is Chinese. :s I also have to communicate with the classmates through our LINE group in Chinese. I write. Heck if I could ever get the Bopomofo right.

However, I can’t read my favorite fashion magazines from Japan yet. :cry: Instructor says give it a year more.

I am the slowest in the class but the teacher/classmates are very understanding. And I noticed I got the grammar points -when I get them- clearer. I mean, I can put the particles in their proper place accurately. And vocabulary wise, I retain a lot.

It is an entirely different system from what I learned in the ol country. Ah, handsome teacher Murata, wonder how he’s doing? :lovestruck:

I’ve come to the point in my life (both work-wise and otherwise) where I’ve had my fill of all things Taiwanese. I’ve studied Japanese in the past, and had a reasonable grasp of the language, but it’s long since disappeared. I’m thinking of taking a sabbatical next year to study the language, but also experience life in Japan as a resident (however limited in terms of duration that may be) rather than as a tourist.

So my question to you, dear J-bent flobsters, is simply this: are there schools (or a school) that you would recommend that would take me from zero to hero in three to six months? By hero, I mean just being able to survive at a day-to-day level. I’ve done the requisite time at Shida (among other places), so kanji will not be completely foreign to me.

I prefer living in Fukuoka just because of proximity to Taipei and the general laid-back nature of the city, but it’s not a preference that’s set in stone.

Your thoughts welcome.

Yes, there are. Their regular programs are aimed at taking people from zero to Japanese university entrance exam passing level in 18 months - until the early 2000s that used to be level 2 = 二級 of the 日本語能力試験 (JLPT) but now is a test called 日本留学試験. These schools often also offer intensive programs (1 month to 6 months) that might be particularly useful to students who already come with some knowledge (knowing kanji from having learned Mandarin in Taiwan will be useful).

I’d recommend you start with some research on the site of the Yamasa Institute yamasa.org/index.html - this is a good representation of what is possible (available), and then you could use what you find there as a reference when looking for similar schools in Nagasaki, Fukuoka, etc.

Yuli - thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for.

Thank you, Yuli. If you hear of any programs in Okinawa next to the beach, let me know. :smiley:

Next to the beach is not very likely, but here are a few schools in Okinawa (in no particular order):

jice.ac.jp/

e-cccc.com/

iclcjapan.com/

jslnippon.jp/

orange.zero.jp/nichia/

okinawajcs.com/

Thank you. It is just that in the ol country we do have language schools next to the beach. LOL.