Learning new languages

Discussion Open Forum
21

I’ve been learning Mandarin at a very casual pace, because I find that beyond the basics, people are not so much interested in what I have to say as amused that a foreigner is speaking Chinese (don’t forget, I’m from a small town, and am, as such, still a novelty after two years). Most of the foreigners I work with don’t speak a word beyond “xie xie” except for one guy who has a degree in Mandarin from university. And they do fine, sometimes better than I do with my (limited) knowledge of the language. People want to stop the foreigner from shouting assertively in English; they don’t care if the foreigner floundering in Chinese doesn’t get what s/he wants. It’s easy for people to pretend that they don’t know what you’re talking about when you speak their language, even if everyone around them does. And most of the time, even if I speak Chinese, they respond in English (if they know any).

That being said, I have found that learning the language gives a person a deeper understanding of the culture and helps me as a teacher; I know the origin of many of the “Chinglish” mistakes in my students and can pre-emptively correct them.

22

Living in Taiwan more than three years still cannot speak
a single sentence of Chinese or Taiwanese language I only can say that they are nothing but a “Third-Rated.” I really look down on that kind of foreigners

23

Great thread! :laughing:

I have a friend who has been there for over 4 years and he speaks a few words, incorrectly of course. He has no gf and seems to get around just fine without any Mandarin whatsoever. I’m not praising him, and really don’t understand how he does it either. He’s a good guy, has been teaching in Asia for over 15 years, and still speaks English exclusively. I don’t think he’s lazy or unable to learn, just seems to have no interest or find it necessary. Again, I’m clueless as to how one can do it and constantly kick myself for not speaking better than I do, but must also applaud him for being able to cope and live here with no difficulties.

I have met quite a few others who have been there for a year, two, and longer who don’t speak any. Although I found many of these types don’t even like being in Taiwan. These are the ones that are here simply to make lots of money, save, and go home with all the cash they made and do whatever. I can’t say I approve of or respect this, but it doesn’t mean that all foreign residents who CHOOSE not to learn Chinese are lazy sacks, does it? :shock:

24

[quote=“Mianbao”]
I can’t say I approve of or respect this, but it doesn’t mean that all foreign residents who CHOOSE not to learn Chinese are lazy sacks, does it? :shock:[/quote]

I’m afraid it does…but I certainly don’t disrespect those who never bother to learn. Unmotivated=lazy in many dictionaries.
Many I know, btw, pick up a lot of language subconsciously, but refrain from using what they know because they’re too shy.
My own grandmother lived in the US for 60+ years until she died. I’d have to say that her English ability never surpassed low intermediate level, and she didn’t necessarily have lots of people to speak with in her native tongue.
Don’t think you can blame people for this

25

Well, thanks for your input. :slight_smile: I can’t argue with either of those comments. I’m surely bias in that I like my friend even though he seems to have no interest to learn to speak the local language(s), and think he’s different from the “others” I mentioned, but at the same time don’t understand at all why he has never picked it up. To me it only seems logical to at least make an attempt, and definitely makes living here easier knowing how to communicate.

26

I wholeheartedly agree with Mianbao. I don’t disrespect those old-timers who haven’t learned, just wonder how they feel and wonder if they are full of regret at times for not making the initial effort.

I am a strong believer that if you don’t make the effort to learn in the first 3 yeears, you will probably spend the rest of your time hear not understanding any Chinese.

27

Well, funny thing is, I do have a very close friend whose been here for about 15 years, who although understands a helluva lot of Mandarin, doesn’t speak it unless she’s forced to. Quite frankly, I can tell she’s quite embarrassed about this.
About six months ago, she looked at me one night and said, ‘Don’t tell anyone, but I’ve started taking Chinese classes.’ I almost fell off my bar stool, and I think she was joking, although, maybe she wasn’t…She’s not the type who’d tell us if she really were because she’d be mortified that we were checking on her progress or something. Which we wouldn’t. But…

I think after a certain length of time, being able to cope as most of us do anywhere in the world with English, people just give up the idea of learning. Think it’s too late. Think they’re too old. Too dumb. Why bother, right?

God knows as long as I’ve been here I should be reading newspapers, but lack of motivation (laziness/sloth/disinterest/interest in other things) has kept me away from the task.
I can read some Chinese, all street signs, the Chinese windows menu, and can sometimes get by watching French films with CHinese subtitles, but I’ve never taken to task the reading/writing part. Like I mentioned above, that learning has been subconscious absorption, not a conscientious effort. I regret this, and if I had a lot more time, like 48 hour days and fewer committments to other fields of knowledge, perhaps I’d work on that. It is something one can do on their own, in fact.

The speaking part needs interaction and guts however, and many people are definately shy about speaking foreign languages. Just look at how many Taiwanese, whove studied English for over ten years or more in school, react when they see us foreigners. They mostly assume we cannot speak any mandarin, and are often overly amazed when we do. Same old remarks, ‘Hao bang!’, ‘Guoyi jangde hen hao’, etc…
It becomes absurd when we’ve heard it a million times, eh?

Then there are the times we speak Mandarin perfectly, but the Taiwanese don’t expect us to speak it, and so it confuses them, and they cannot make heads nor tails of our utterances because they were expecting to hear English!!

I have another friends whose fluent in Mandarin with an undergrad degree in it from SOAS. He absolutely WILL NOT speak it in front of other foreigners! However, he uses it for his job all the time, as I understand. But let me tell you, with his cockney accent, a lot of folks who speak English pretty well, are completly at a loss hearing him speak to them, and he gets frustrated and has to do the Mandarin in front of us sometimes anyway, which I can tell, makes him cringe.

People are funny about languages, don’t judge them about this aspect…

28

That’s nothing. Chinese pronounciation is much harder to get into than japanese pronounciation, but still I met foreigners in Japan having been there for some 20+ years, too busy teaching English to learn the local language (though married to a Japanese…), not able to speak a single sentence in Japanese, not able to use public transportation (which is better organised there than here in Taiwan)…
So, three years (or a few more) really doesn’t count… Of course, if Taiwan would apply a “real” system for romanisation of the chinese language, learning Chinese would be much easier… :wink:

29

You bring up some great points, and in regards to your friend’s phobia (or whatever you want to call it) I can relate. I don’t have this condition to quite the degree as you mention he does, but do in many ways, especially when outside a totally Chinese-immersed environment, say at home in Chinatown. When I’m alone, sometimes I clam up and speak only English, at other times I’m more brave and will start up a conversation with a waiter/waitress, person at the bus stop, etc. But when I have friend’s with me (non-Chinese speakers) I seem to lose any courage I may have when alone and avoid speaking Chinese as much as possible.

I always thought it was related to me being a Pisces as we tend to often do anything possible to avoid drawing attention to ourselves (totally me!). For example, I’m a musician and can play a few instruments very well, but when asked to just “play something” for someone I just can’t do it. Anyone else have this occurance as well?

Anyhow, I’m finding this thread really fascinating and enjoy reading all the different perspectives and opinions everyone has posted. And even though I have my own opinion, I tend to avoid “judging” other people or thinking less of someone but still find myself unable to understand how one copes in such a way, or just doesn’t want to learn and understand something so precious as the language spoken around them. However, to each his own! :slight_smile: