Lian Zhan: Murder the President

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Dear fellow forumosans,

Reading in the Taipei Times that Lian Zhan reportedly said that Chen Shuibian is game for any trigger-happy fool was a bit of a surprise. To put it mildly. :noway:

Are there any other sources for this? Not to criticize the Taipei Times, but they have got quotes wrong before.

You think this will have any bearing on the outcome of the LY election?

Could the President sue Lian Zhan?

Any thoughts on this?

Let’s try to stay on topic for a change. Please refrain from posting about Taidu, Lee Denghui, or croo-straits issues.

The Taiwan News mentions it, but doesn’t make a big deal of it.
etaiwannews.com/Taiwan/2004/ … 532925.htm

You would have thought there would be some law about saying something like this in public.

No big deal, Huh?

They call for Lian Zhan to resign for those comments in today’s editorial.

[quote]
Lien must resign

Closer to home, citizens await today’s judgement of the Taiwan High Court on the suit to nullify the re-election of President Chen Shui-bian on March 20 filed by the pan-blue ticket of Kuomintang Chairman Lien Chan and People First Party James Soong.

In recent days, pan-blue politicians have cast aspersions on the independence of the court’s judgement, in a childish and transparent display of lack of confidence in the Taiwan High Court’s decision.

Since the KMT did not respect judicial independence during the decades of its martial law rule, we can appreciate that KMT leaders have difficulty grasping that the DPP government has neither the desire nor the capability to impose its will on the judges.

But no degree of resentment for a (well-earned) electoral defeat can justify Lien’s statement aimed at President Chen, that “anyone can execute a man who has won an election through fraud.”

In the context of the March 19 attempted shooting of President Chen and the KMT’s own bloody record of political murder, such incitements transgress any conception of “election language.”

If Lien has any conception of political responsibility, he will apologize and resign. [/quote]

I may have interpreted it incorrectly but the Chinese press are quoting follow up remarks from Lian reiterating the ‘murder’ comments! Anyone else verify?

Is it true the area around Bo-Ai Road has 500 police on standby?

lien has obviously gone off the deep end (and hit his head on the bottom). how else would you explain an otherwise educated leader of a political party in a democratic society publicly suggesting murder of his political rival? and for what? for alleged “fraud” that he and his cohort of lawyers have been unable to substantiate with any sort of plausible evidence. the KMT needs to yank the plug on this guy (ie., make him step down) before he does the pan-blues anymore damage.

he still has not been able to come to terms with his defeat in march. the rage and frustration over the loss of what he felt he was entitled to must have really eaten away at his sanity. this man needs :help:

nevertheless, he should be held accountable for these words. and i believe he will, legally or politically. what he said was indefensible.

It’s absolutley outrageous. If it’d been in the US, the feds would have taken him in already.

I’ve always known that Lian Zhan was an obnoxious creep, but this just takes the cake.

Re: police on Bo Ai Lu - I think they were there for possible protests on the High Court’s verdict about the election law suit.

Brian

I’m also curious how his words actually translate, because the quote in the TT is totally inexcusable (not that stupid comments from Taiwanese politicians should come as a surprise). Didn’t he make a very similar comment within the past few months, or was it someone else?

On a related topic, my wife was amazed to learn this morning that Kerry already conceded defeat, congratulated Bush and gave best wishes, as most adults would do in such a situation. Look at Taiwan, she said, it’s been 6 months and they’re still fighting over the outcome. Indeed.

Seeing how the quote seems to have dissapeared from the blue media, I would say that he will not face up to it. Also, the usual cohort of blue bunglers are backing him up. The unity may only last to the blues are a minority in the legislature, and the lucky few scurry to save their political hides though.

I would guess that once the blues are minority in the LY, Lian Zhan will be forced out.

I wouldn’t bet on it.

You would have thought that someone who was the first to ever lose the KMT presidence, with a miserbale 23% of the vote, would get the boot, wouldn’t you?

You’d think that someone who then presided over the party’s loss of 20-odd seats in the Legislature, must be out on his ear, right?

Now if the same guy then went on to lose yet another presidential election (with his side unified against a single foe, this time), you’d expect hime to be chucked out, wouldn’t you?

No?

Brian

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]
Now if the same guy then went on to lose yet another presidential election (with his side unified against a single foe, this time), you’d expect hime to be chucked out, wouldn’t you?[/quote]

I get your point.

However, there are some things shich might change:

  1. KMT fortune. We can expect the DPP led legislature going for anything carrying a whiff of ill gotten gains.

  2. Localization faction of the KMT walking out. No money, no honey. If the coffers are empty, they might want to reconsider their party affiliation.

  3. James Soong in the KMT tent. James Soong will try to get back in after the election. Once the localissation guys have left, you have his supporters and a few dinos left hanging around. James Soong’s guys will go for Lian Zhan at the first given opportunity.

Obviously, a KMT sans its fortune might see both the more pro-soong types leaving for PFP, and the localization guys setting up their own party.

That would leave Lian Zhan in power, but we would be looking at a party with not much in the way of money, influence, or power.


Taiwan poll challenge rejected

Let the tantrums begin…

OK, so it will end in the supreme court… Well, that was to be expected.

they will be able to keep it alive for another month or so.

Why on earth is it that not a single reporter from any media has asked Lien what he was thinking about by calling for assassinations?
Would bringing a fradulent suit to nullify the presidential election qualify for someone to kill Lien?

Every time I think my respect for him can’t sink any lower …

人人得以誅之 (ren ren dei yi zhu zhi) - I think it’s a quotation from somewhere, but the meaning is pretty clear. I’m sure he’ll claim he was just being poetic/metaphorical (after all, who would believe the KMT would ever want to kill anyone? Or that anyone would try to shoot the president? :unamused:)

You’re probably thinking of Thomas Lee: [Pan-Blue Thomas Lee says shoot President Chen Dead!?

Here’s the source:

比喻人惡貫滿盈,人人若捉得他皆可殺他。三國演義˙第四回:汝罪惡盈天,人人願得而誅之。

Now I’m not one to defend Lien, but I do think he was mistranslated. The literary allusion here does refer to something like a right for the good to kill the evil. But I think Lien took it out of context. It’s also used in phrases like 口誅筆伐 that mean to criticize.

Even by itself, 誅 can mean ‘condemn’ or ‘criticize’. The Jiaotong C-E dictiory translates the phrase as ‘punish’. And ‘zhu’ could not be ‘murder’ anyway; it carries a moral valuation of being a legitimate killing either by the government or by a righteous person.

As I read it, it could be translated as “punish” or “put to death”. Not “murder”. Different connotation, as Feiren pointed out. But I’m certain that the alternative meaning of it was something Lien was fully aware of. He might be a nutter, but he’s no idiot.

[quote=“Feiren”]
Now I’m not one to defend Lien, but I do think he was mistranslated. The literary allusion here does refer to something like a right for the good to kill the evil. But I think Lien took it out of context. It’s also used in phrases like 口誅筆伐 that mean to criticize.

Even by itself, 誅 can mean ‘condemn’ or ‘criticize’. The Jiaotong C-E dictiory translates the phrase as ‘punish’. And ‘zhu’ could not be ‘murder’ anyway; it carries a moral valuation of being a legitimate killing either by the government or by a righteous person.[/quote]

re 誅.

The headline with that word 誅 was in the Liberty Times today and also the Taiwan Daily News in Chinese. I asked a few locals and most agree with Feiren here that the word 誅 means more like BLAME, or CRITICIZE or CONDEMN or GET RID OF…and not MURDER or ASSASSINATE.

So maybe the TT went overbeard there with their headline and subheadline and article. From what my friends tell me, the word 誅 does not mean murder. Lien Chan was just being obnoxious as usual, but he was NOT calling for the MURDER of Abian.

I wonder if the Taipei Times will clear this up in tomorrow’s paper. The headline in English was deathly chilling. Now it turns out Lien Chan was just being the poet that he is. NOT.

Once the English pan-Green supporters are going off the deep end by mistranslating Chinese.

To be honest an attempt at assassinating CSB and his wife has already occurred. So voicing the possibility of it happening again seems kind of streching it for a lawsuit, even though, that is not what Lien said.

English speaking pan-Green supporters are told what Lien said by bi-lingual pan-Green supporters. What a great way to be a victim of propoganda.

By way of example, if you look at a copy of the Far East Chinese-English Dictionary, you will notice that “zhu” is rendered as “to kill,” “to execute,” “to put to death,” as well as “to punish.” There are a number of similar words that include this character, one of which, “zhulu”, means “to slaughter.”

It is obvious Lien Chan knew what he was saying, and he knew very well how it would be received. Senior government officials - Su Tseng-chang, Yu Shyi-kun and Chen Shui-bian himself - have directly referred to Lien’s language as a hamfisted - but bizarre - incitement to kill the president.

Criticizing TT for using the word “murder” is sheer sophistry - and shooting the messenger besides. Lien meant “kill,” and were his invitation to be taken up, that would be murder. Anyone care to disagree?

Lien probably thought he was coming across as tremendously educated and righteous. No wonder Chen asked “What is this society coming to?” yesterday.

To play down such language is irresponsible, and to pass off criticism of it as “propaganda” is doubly so.

Well in Romance of the Three Kingdom Chapter Four.

[quote]Assination attempt…

But just as Cao Cao was going to strike, Dong Zhuo happened to look up and in a mirror he saw the reflection of Cao Cao behind him with a sword in the hand.

Cao Cao in a flurry dropped on his knees and said, “I have a precious sword here which I wish to present to Your Benevolence.” [/quote]

So I have no clue where pan-Green supporters go off Lien wants CSB murdered based on a referrence from Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

The only thing I can gather is by the last chapter of Romance of Three Kingdom, Chapter 120, China is unified when.

Just like the states of HK, ROC, and PRC are meant to be One Nation State of China.