Libel suit against PFP legislators and Jaw

in the news this week is more controversy stemming from accusations made by PFP legislators against Chen regarding “improper” funds given to the Panamanian president and allegations of sexual misconduct on Chen’s part. … 2003207883

the PFP legislators have got to know that these accusations wouldn’t go unchallenged, right? i mean, if they were going to make these kinds of accusations, wouldn’t one think that they would have rock-solid sources that they can cite in their own defense? instead, what they cite as their evidence is hearsay rumors from a known political enemy of Chen’s (Jaw), whose own source is a MAINLAND CHINESE NEWS WEBSITE. pretty weak, in my opinion. in a political environment where losers of libel battles have actually gone to prison and done time, one would think that blues who make these kinds of accusations would be more cautious.

i think chen should have asked for monetary damages in his suit not only as a punitive measure, but also as further deterrent for these kinds of defamatory remarks. i’m eager to see what, if any, solid evidence these accusers can produce to back up their allegations.

Hey, it was on the web - it must be true :slight_smile:

Incidentally, the allegation of “improper behaviour” that Chen is supposed to have engaged in with Moscoso was 吃豆腐 (eat tofu) … does any Chinese scholar care to elaborate on this (presuambly sexual reference)? Inquiring minds need to know!

吃豆腐 means groping or fondling. It’s part of the election game, these guys think they’re too big to be punished for this sort of bs, and if they are charged with anything they start whining about ‘green-terror’ again. :unamused:

Moscoso is also reported to be filing a libel suit against the three involved.

If there is a scandal to be found the PFP will invent it.
I am just waiting for ac_dropout’s logic in defense of the PFP.

I personally think this is an abuse of the legal system on Taiwan. If politicians start suing each other over frivolous comments it will bring a whole new dimension to wasting tax dollars.

What Chen should have done or any politician for that matter is just to ignore and let it run through the news cycle or provide proof to the contrary to the accusation.

Now it just makes it looks like CSB has something to hide or is just vindictive.

Liu is ranked No. 1 on next year’s PFP legislators-at-large list. That means that he was not elected to his position. What part does that play in the “election game”?

of course, we could avoid this whole legal mess altogether if frivolous comments were just simply never made, right? then nobody would have to “abuse” the legal system to clear his name. there are reasons libel laws exist.

also, the burden of proof lies with the accuser, not with the accused. why would anyone suggest otherwise?

why do people try to argue that when blues grossly overstep their legal powers for political gain, it’s somehow justified, but when chen uses the legal system the way it is intended to defend his name from random smears, it is an “abuse” of the system? double standard at its worst.

[quote=“ac_dropout”]I personally think this is an abuse of the legal system on Taiwan. If politicians start suing each other over frivolous comments it will bring a whole new dimension to wasting tax dollars.

What Chen should have done or any politician for that matter is just to ignore and let it run through the news cycle or provide proof to the contrary to the accusation.

Now it just makes it looks like CSB has something to hide or is just vindictive.[/quote]

Just curious, what “proof” could Chen point to to demonstrate that the assertion was false? The reason libel is illegal is that it damages the victim’s reputation. To ignore it does not reverse the damage, but pointing to a libel judgement does vindicate one somewhat. If aggressive enforcement discourages this kind of slander then I would consider it tax dollars well spent… also I see no reason why a libel case would be too expensive, seeing as it will be a simple matter of asking for proof, which will not be given, followed by a judgement.

[quote=“twocs”]Liu is ranked No. 1 on next year’s PFP legislators-at-large list. That means that he was not elected to his position. What part does that play in the “election game”?[/quote]Why do you think they still have these ‘at-large’ legislators? Loose cannon duty of course. Run amok, take no damage at the ballot box.
I think it’s an anachronism and should go.


CSB could just simply show deny the existance of a personal check for 1 million dollar for sexual favors jokingly and explain which public relief programs were suppose to be funded by the million dollar. Isn’t that simple enough.


CSB is going after 2 legislator and a radio host in the libel suit. I don’t have a transcript of the show and don’t even know how the topic was presented. But what I gather from the article is that the original source of the information they were discussing comes from a news service in China.

There are a couple of points I also find disturbing about this suit besides the fact it is frivolous.

  1. The source of the information was a news source in the PRC. The individuals discussing the topic based on heresay. CSB going after ROC citizens discussing information garnered from PRC sources, implies that Taiwan is no longer a open society with free flow of information. That certain topic are off limits. That the government doesn’t wish to be transparent.

CSB should actually be taking his case with Global Times Web site, a weekly newsletter issued by China’s state-run People’s Daily, instead of setting a bad legal precedent on Taiwan.

  1. The major reason behind the lawsuit as stated by CSB representative “President Chen regards his reputation as more important than any restitution that could be paid in cash”

CSB is Tom Cruise now. This goes back to CSB being too rich for his own good now. What kind of ego trip is the guy on to have statements like this made on his behalf. His livelihood is not effected by this, his ability to do business is not effected by this. His ability to be a stateman is not effected by this.

This is not statemanship, this is theater now.

first of all, the “frivolous” act in this case was not that the president filed a lawsuit, but rather that these individuals made unsubstantiated remarks about the president that alleges he did unethical and potentially illegal things.

what you should find disturbing is that taiwanese legislators and a broadcaster saw fit to make flat-out baseless accusations against the president based on a chinese-run media website. what you should find disturbing is that these people don’t have anymore sense of responsibility than 10 yr olds on the playground. had they simply said, “hey, guess what we saw in a chinese website? isn’t that interesting,” then it would not have been libel, and they would be free to spout off all they wanted about that article - hence freedom of press, freedom of speech, etc. in other words, if they were treating the information as hearsay second-hand information (which it was), and made it clear it was, then they would be perfectly within their rights . however, that was NOT what they did. they made accusations as if their accusations were fact. only upon questioning did they reveal their dubious source. they did not approach it as if they were simply passing on information they read elsewhere - they approached it as if these allegations were already fact, and they accused the president based on that. THAT is what is disturbing, and THAT is why they deserve to be charged. this is not a matter of them being punished for free speech - don’t muddy the waters with this tangential argument - this is a matter of them knowingly and maliciously leveling unsubstantiated charges at the president that is damaging to the commander-in-chief as well as taiwan’s diplomatic ally.

and i agree - chen should have asked for monetary restitution. because if he doesn’t, then people will accuse him of being too rich for it. and if he does, then people will accuse him of being greedy. either way, he is vilified by his critics. so he might as well ask for the money and punish the PFP sunzabitches where it hurts.

incidentally, their godfather jimmy soong just “apologized” for liu’s actions at a press conference. a slimy, disingenuous apology, but one nevertheless. but most importantly, he admitted to wrongdoing on the part of his party’s legislators. and liu wen hsiung just sat there sullenly next to him like a little kid who just got whupped by his daddy.

The proof given in the article is: [quote]Meanwhile, Agence France Presse reported that Moscoso on Wednesday denied that she received US$1 million as a “birthday gift” from Chen.

“I never received a check for any amount as a birthday gift from the president of the Republic of China in Taiwan, as claimed by opposition legislators in that country,” Moscoso said in a statement.[/quote]

They said he gave her a check. She said he did not give her a check as a gift.

Moscoso is now reported [color=red]NOT [/color]to be filing a libel suit against the three involved.


I sympathize with your desire for political retribution.

Since I don’t have the transcript of the show nor a tape I can’t confirm the presentation. I don’t know the radio show nor the demographic of its audience so it is difficult to guage how “damaged” was CSB reputation.

But it is a fact a PRC news source reported the allege misuse of funds. It is a fact ROC citizens used this information on a radio show.

However, I still don’t think it is prudent to set up precedent for these type of cases. Since it implies people are not allowed to have a free and open discussion, even if the source of the information is from a political adversary, PRC.

I also agree with James Soong that the lawsuit is distracting from the real issue at hand. Was the PRC accusation true or false? Can we get concrete evidence of what the funds were used for in Panama?

Slander is not “free speech”. When you say something like that you should be prepared to shoulder the burden of proof. If I claimed that Lian Zhan had a sexual relationship with his dog, and when he shouted foul, replied “Oh prove you don’t”… Christ… Sheesh. Too damn cheap.

Also, the President is very smart in not suing for money, as that’s what they do to bankrupt opposition politicians in Singapore.


his ability to do business is not effected by this. His ability to be a stateman is not effected by this.

?? how can an accusation of bribery NOT affect his ability to be a statesman? any other national leader could expect to receive similar compensation for absolutely anything that could be deemed as “in taiwan’s favor”. that would seem to hinder any statesman from doing his job, unless he had unlimited funds to pay.

also, if the accusers had mentioned that this was what the prc was saying, rather than omitting this fact, and implying its (the message’s) truthfulness, the public could have quickly dismissed it as more anti-chen propoganda from across the straight (and from this side).

btw, slander and open discussion are not synonymous.


That concept of the unlimited slush funds used to buy ROC international recognition is open knowledge on Taiwan now. That’s what Next magazine censorship was all about.

The only question that remains is whether the PRC accusations are true. If not accurate, what facts are the PRC news source massaging to imply their statement is true. CSB should focus his effort on trying to rebut the PRC accusations, instead of focusing his effort to sue ROC citizens.

The PRC news article influences 1.3 billion people. The radio show in question influences a faction of 22 million, who for the most part are jaded to these types of accusations made by our local politicains. The ROC public already heard slanderous remarks like; wife beater, insider trader, racist, Communist sympathizer, Japanese sympathizer, draft dodger, murderer, Black Gold digger, etc.

ARGH - invalid session!

anyways ac,

if the fund is unlimited, then taiwan should have relations with every country in the world, shouldn’t they? ponder that.

facts from the prc about taiwan … yeah, right. considering that they don’t recognize the chen government in (any) capacity, any facts to consider are at least questionable and misleading to start with. also, the hot air that flies to us across the straight will continue long after we are dead and buried. that the people who originally made (up) the claim live in the prc is unsurprising, as a lawsuit against them would be a big waste of time and money.

however, the repeaters of the lawsuit here in taiwan are guilty of slander, if and when a court of law declares them to be. or are you saying that slanderous comments that originate in another country and are repeated as fact here should not be punished? if so, this must go both ways, and any comments made about the kmt/pfp would also be fair game, and shouldn’t be challenged.

moving on, do you really think that the 1.3 billion people in china believe every word that their government feeds them? that there are none able to form an opinion of their own? or they are not allowed to, because someone is afraid that the people might come to unwanted conclusions, that might cost someone their job? the numbers you state (1.3 b : 22 m) have little to do with the point - chen is the elected president of this country, therefore it is much more important that the people here know the truth than it is that the truth gets beamed to china, where it will no doubt be spun into something else. india has a lot of people too, should chen try to convince them too?

how do you rebut a wild accusation like this, other than denying it and sueing to try to ensure that it doesn’t happen again? tell me what you would do if you were in such a situation, and you were not guilty.

finally, maybe the lack of lawsuits regarding the list of remarks you made is due to them being true - therefore nothing to sue about. don’t kid yourself that kmt/pfp are above such actions, they sue when they have an ingrown toenail, and drag the whole scenerio through the muck.

That’s the point of the argument. What is this lawsuit suppose to prevent from happening in the future.

  1. ROC citizens not read PRC news sources for facts and information.
  2. ROC politicians to give up the practice of making wild accusations at each other.
  3. Create a legal culture of frivolous lawsuits
  4. Waste ROC citizens time on legalities instead of find out what facts the PRC news sources were actually reporting on.

Shouldn’t CSB just address the issue of, if ROC has provided financial aid to Panama.