Lien Chan PRC visit part II

[quote]http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-04/14/content_4422766.htm

Lien Chan, honorary chairman of the Chinese Kuomintang (KMT) party, called for peace and common development across the Taiwan Straits at the opening of the Cross-Straits Economic and Trade Forum on Friday. [/quote]

At least someone is doing something constructive for Taiwan’s economy.

AC_, The url you posted isn’t working for me. Can you check it and edit as necessary?

Thanks.

[quote=“ac_dropout”][quote]http://news.xinhuanet.com/English/2006-04/14/content_4422766.htm

Lien Chan, honorary chairman of the Chinese Kuomintang (KMT) party, called for peace and common development across the Taiwan Straits at the opening of the Cross-Straits Economic and Trade Forum on Friday. [/quote]

At least someone is doing something constructive for Taiwan’s economy.[/quote]

At what cost?

I don’t think the “costs” are so damning that we need to skim around the topic, as if it’s inappropriate for dinner room conversation.

Let’s list them out.

  • reconcillation comes at the cost of greater economic integration between mainland China and Taiwan, making it increasingly unlikely that Taiwan could survive economically if cut off from the mainland;

  • reconcillation also comes at the cost of greater, friendly individual interaction between mainland Chinese and Taiwanese. This makes it increasingly likely that Taiwanese will perceive mainland Chinese as individuals with a shared heritage, making it more difficult for Taiwanese to assert a distinct, non-Chinese Taiwanese “identity”.

Am I missing anything?

I dunno cctang, interesting. I see it as the cost of being Philippine rich or Singapore rich. I suppose you’re kinda saying that already, just more intelligently :slight_smile:

There’s nothing constructive in moving Taiwanese industry to China. As Lee Teng-hui noted in a recent speech:

[list]Capital outflow will eat into domestic investment, causing a slump in domestic industries and an outflow of capital that used to be abundant in the past. In 2003, Taiwan

There’s nothing constructive in moving Taiwanese industry to China. [/quote]

Would your sentiment apply to other countries vis-a-vis China or only Taiwan? Considering that China has benefited from the world’s cash (alot of it from the US), how would you argue its impact on the investor country? Lots of been written about US companies moving lock-stock-and-barrel to China. Has it all been bad for the US? Hard to say, even the expert’s can’t agree. It depends on what part of the economic picture you want to focus on is probably the correct answer.

Considering how late Taiwan has been in the Vietnam investment area, we won’t know if that’s money well spent until a few years more. I think that’s a good move, don’t want to put all your eggs in one (China) basket. Would you argue that Taiwan investment in Vietnam is a good or bad move? Taiwanese companies are again re-entering Malaysia after having left it a few years back leaving behind a poor business reputation. Good or not?

In the end, it’s not just the blue companies that are moving to China, even the green companies like Uni-President are moving their stuff to China. A green bank like Fubon would move to China too except for the fact that China punishes them for their political position. For Taiwan companies, “patriotism” only goes so far, economic competitiveness and survival is the overriding concern. And that’s the way it should be IMO.

I trust the opinions of those who make money… over the opinions of those who only talk about making money.

I’d like to point out a few trends:

  • more South Koreans than Taiwanese study in mainland Chinese universities today;

  • South Korea’s investment in mainland China is averaging around $5 billion annually, surpassing foreign investment originating from Taiwan and Japan.

  • South Korea’s GDP per capita has now surpassed Taiwan’s.

The only “point” that Lee Tung-hui managed to make, which you support here, is that domestic investment by Taiwanese firms is far lower than their Korean counterparts. Now, let’s ask why. Is it just a matter of unpatriotic businessmen? Really?

Could it actually be because a Taiwanese economy cut-off from the mainland Chinese one is an unattractive one? Could a Taiwanese businessmen hesistate when thinking about building a factory in Taiwan… knowing that shipping costs will be higher because of the lack of 3-links? knowing that their capital will be stuck in Taiwan indefinitely, prey to whatever political/legal barriers the government in Taipei might throw in their way?

A profit-driven Korean businessmen, given $100 to invest, is putting a majority of that in building a factory in mainland China. But he’s also putting a significant percentage in his Korean sales/development offices, knowing that his engineers/managers can travel back and forth (a flight from Seoul to Beijing is what… an hour and a half?), that products can ship back and forth, that capital can be moved back and forth if/when the business environment changes (like it always does).

A profit-driven Taiwanese businessmen, given $100 to invest, would be foolish to put his money in Taiwan. The Taiwanese market itself is tiny, flying his engineers/managers to mainland China will take 5-6 hours, shipping products back and forth is a logistic nightmare. Any capital that goes into Taiwan today could, very possibly, be prevented from flowing to mainland China when he wants to expand production there. The alternative? He’ll set up a company in Hong Kong (with its 15% flat corporate taxes), get Western-quality banking/legal services, while still having immediate access to the mainland. He gets the best of all worlds.

Why would any objective, profit-driven international businessmen invest significantly in Taiwan today?

[quote] A profit-driven Taiwanese businessmen, given $100 to invest, would be foolish to put his money in Taiwan. The Taiwanese market itself is tiny, flying his engineers/managers to mainland China will take 5-6 hours, shipping products back and forth is a logistic nightmare. Any capital that goes into Taiwan today could, very possibly, be prevented from flowing to mainland China when he wants to expand production there. The alternative? He’ll set up a company in Hong Kong (with its 15% flat corporate taxes), get Western-quality banking/legal services, while still having immediate access to the mainland. He gets the best of all worlds.

Why would any objective, profit-driven international businessmen invest significantly in Taiwan today?[/quote]

PRECISELY cctang! You said it all there

Now let me add former US AIT director and US Ambassdor to Beijing James Lilley’s comments of Taiwanese. He has said quote, “They like freedom and democracy…but they love money more…” It’s one of the most SPOT-ON observations made of Taiwan in recent time, a statement made many years ago in fact and as prescient and on target one could ask of the overall psychology of the people here…The fact is, this point isnt really deeply understood back there and how serious it is. The overall depth of how TRUE it is and yet so obvious it remains in the overall situation of life here. If Americans were to truly understand how deep this belief were, they’d give ample due pause and challenge before committing themselves to a disastrous war out here. Americans would demand far more in terms of education on this back there and accountability from the professional con-artists that they {stupidly} elect as their “leaders” is a motion quite needed. Particularly so before they commit more of our young to march off and die in yet another bloody and terrible war without end. I suspect as the Iraq Debacle and potential Iran Debacle unfolds, the old “blank cheque” granted before is now becoming with-held. Thankfully so!

The Taiwanese understand it. They have prepared themselves and have already accepted it. The Americans have yet to understand it one iota though. One of the most tortuous facts of life I’ve asked the Missus is: Has she ever considered life under the 5 Star Flag? Could she accept it. She’s told me that many in her generation already have, and if it means trading freedom for prosperity, then -so be it!- That’s exactly how it boils down with this people. She’s personally prepared for it. Yet this type of locally well known yet little reported fact contrasts -VASTLY- with what is popularly reported in Western Media. The reality is, EVEN people {of money} in Taiwan as well as many of the “average Joes” appear quite ready to accept this as long as they can attain some level of prosperity. That’s a shocker. There is willing acceptance of a tradeoff on the issue of “personal rights” and “freedom” as long as it translates to prosperity. Compromising upon these seems feasable as long as stability and prosperity is attained. That shift is VERY real.

Yet, these key points are NOT reported upon in Western media. This is strange. Worse, it’s swept under the rug and ignored. Pardon me while I expand on this thought but it begs to compare it with another sage quote that contrasts all of this:
“Those whom ride on the back of a tiger, usually wind up inside!”
How anyone can lose sight of that in this message?

And so, my kudos and my congratulations to your side {and those on this side of course} who’ve worked for so long to get their side to prevail. To prove without any shred of a doubt of this coming to pass, a fate that will be complete and absolute! As we’re seeing what happens in the US, with a people so sedated and comfortable in getting a government they voted for and fully deserve, the same script plays out -here- in our 'little corner of the world. Taiwan is getting exactly what it deserves.

Taiwan will become {like it or not} the next reclaimed province of the People’s Republic of China.

Add this story to it and it yields yet more contrast to the picture. The proverbial “GAME OVER” sign will alight quite soon. A clear point as the days drag on. All of this is vitally important for Americans to read and understand, well before their next elected leader drags them into a war they have little understanding about in totality:

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060413/pl_ … n_usa_dc_1


Book argues US must stay out of China-Taiwan spat

Thu Apr 13, 5:52 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States should renounce military commitments to Taiwan to avoid a potentially costly conflict if the island declares independence from China, said the author of book which warns of a U.S.-China war within the next decade.

Defending Taiwan from the attack China threatens to unleash in the event of an independence declaration is “a bridge too far” for the United States, said Ted Galen Carpenter, vice president for defense and foreign policy studies at the Cato Institute, a libertarian Washington think tank.

Rather than promising to defend Taiwan, Carpenter said, Washington should step up arms shipments to help the old U.S. friend defend itself.

His book, “America’s Coming War with China : A Collision Course over Taiwan,” says the United States stands between two inexorably opposed forces an unfinished Chinese civil war.

“There may not be a way to avoid a collision between Taiwan and China, unless one side or another blinks,” Carpenter told Reuters in an interview. “What the United States needs to do is to get out of the middle of that quarrel.”

A war between the United States and China could erupt by about 2013, the estimated date China would be militarily capable of seizing Taiwan, Carpenter says in the book. An attack on Taiwan could draw in the United States because it has given defense assurances to the island.

“At some point either Taiwan provokes Beijing beyond endurance or Beijing decides the time is right to settle this issue on Chinese terms,” Carpenter, a frequent author on military issues, said in the interview.

“Given the trends on Taiwan and the mainland, I think a collision is very likely at some point within the next decade,” he said.

Chinese President
Hu Jintao will visit the United States next week and is expected to press
President George W. Bush to do more to rein in Taiwan, which has angered Beijing by taking symbolic steps to play down the island’s ties to the mainland.

“President Hu is likely to be disappointed if he expects a forceful statement from the United States,” said Carpenter.

Taiwan has been divided from China since 1949, when fleeing Nationalist forces turned the island into a stronghold against the mainland’s new Communist rulers.

China says it will use military force if Taiwan declares independence. The United States accepts Beijing’s “one China” policy, but provides arms to help defend Taiwan.

Carpenter’s book argues that U.S. policy sends mixed signals by courting China for business opportunities and diplomatic support while offering protection to Taiwan, a democracy with many friends in the U.S. Congress.

Withdrawing the U.S. defense commitment “will be a very hard sell politically,” Carpenter acknowledges. But he says more robust arms sales to Taiwan might provide cover for Washington to back away from a pledge of direct involvement.

YeYe, Ni Hui LaiLa! <-- That was so funny. The economy is great in Taiwan but leave it up to the China Nationalist Party and their allies in the Communist Party to say otherwise. Whatever…YeYe!!! Hahahahaham he is just a silly old man. Two or three time Loser. He speaks for no one. Forget about the guy.

A picture’s worth a thousand words. So here’s two thousand words.


Yeah, and next thing you know, Lien will be trying to tell us not to treat China as a threat.

Son of a bitch! He did it:

“Faced with China’s rise, we should be benign, optimistic and focused on co-existence and shared prosperity,” Lien said. “Don’t demonize and vilify China, and don’t treat it as a threat.”

Yes, Grandpa Lien. From now on, I’ll only treat their 800 missiles as a threat. But, wait a minute! Missiles don’t kill people; people kill people.

STOP IT! STOP IT EVERYONE! Many of you are making opinions here not in accordance to Party lines!

The Chinese Communist Party openly declares that Taiwan is a part of China, and that the CCP will retake Taiwan at all costs! With any and all measures available, Taiwan will be returned to the motherland.

Lien Chan’s statements is correct. You best heed by it. As of now, you have the freedom to live in many other nations, you best get a one way ticket. All of you will be monitored and identified. Upon the take over of Taiwan by CCP forces, your opinions will be undesired in Taiwan, China and possible court or legal action will be taken upon you for treasonous activites!!! This is your last warning!