[quote=“KawasakiRider”]Taiwan’s crazy, at one extreme you have those who have headlights too bright, than at the other end you have those who don’t even use their headlights. :loco:[/quote]I think it’s telling that you can drive around all night, every night with no lights on and no-one will say anything about it. Try riding with dips on during the day, and every third person will be yelling at you, as if you were running around blindfolded with fragile containers of Sarin gas in slippery fingers while chatting on your cellphone…
I actually hacked my Virago’s daytime running lights because I got so sick of being hassled about it.
Here’s some info. that might be handy. Many cops don’t know this, among other things about the law they should, but according to Taipei City law, vehicles ARE supposed to have daylight running lights on. Cops should actually be issuing tickets to those not having their lights on. But many of them are unaware of this regulatuion. I’ve had cops pull me over and ask me to turn my lights off. Then when I tell them about this regulation they look annoyed and just wave me on.
I actually hacked my Virago’s daytime running lights because I got so sick of being hassled about it.[/quote]
If you ride during the day with your lights off…you are roughly 4-6 times more likely to have an accident. That’s why all bikes in the west don’t have a light switch…and haven’t for about 15-20 years. And if a normal light makes you that much safer during the day…then HID would probably just increase that number. I keep my brights or Hi-beams on during the day…and switch to lows for night. Yes, HIDs are mildly annoying…but you sure as hell SEE that car…don’t you?
After an accident what’s the number one reply to the question “Why did you hit me?” the answer 99% of the time would be “I didn’t see you”…well if the person who got hit had HID…then they would have been seen.
It’s a fine line and I’m not picking a side…but the brighter the light the safer it is…and the more annoying it is to others…so it’s a trade off saftey vs …politeness?.
[quote=“Mordeth”]
If you ride during the day with your lights off…you are roughly 4-6 times more likely to have an accident.[/quote]I’m sure you’re right about this wrt to accident stats in the developed world, and when riding there I always run with lights on in the daytime. My experience here was that in town I would get one person every ten or twenty minutes go out of their way to tell me that my light was on (duh) and they were likely to adopt some pretty extreme tactics to do so, quite likely putting themselves in danger, as well as others. It seemed like my refusal to switch it off was usually taken as my misunderstanding the message, so the person would try harder to make the point. After a while of trying to ignore this silliness I figured that eventually someone was going to crash into me in order to get me to shut that light off, if that’s what it took. :loco: It seemed like the light being on was more likely to precipitate an accident than the extra visibility was worth. Yes, the car drivers could see me better, but I was giving the intellectually challenged a target to aim at. :dunno:
Maybe things are better now. I sure hope so.
I find a very noticeable difference in other drivers’ behaviour between when I ride with lights off and lights on in the daytime. On the odd occasion when I forget to put my lights on, I find people pulling out or cutting in front of me even more than usual.
This has a foundation in the psychology of perception. It’s not only that other drivers are more likely to notice you: a vehicle with lights on actually seems closer.
Hsiadogah, I sometimes get the hassle as well though it’s getting less frequent. I usually find it’s with a tone of friendly concern rather than anything else. I explain “it’s safer this way” then ride on.
Kawasaki Rider, that’s very interesting about the Taipei City regulation. Hope more places do the same, and more people get to know about it. I agree with you that HIDs aren’t really necessary for most people.
Mordeth, cars with non-stock bright lights DO seem to get pulled over from time to time. I’ve seen it on the news. They usually end up getting booked for a variety of other illegal mods as well though I think.
Another thing you can point out when someone tells you your lights are on…is that all buses have their lights on during the day. Not just in Taipei…but Chung-Li, Tao-Yuan…and probably down south as well. And if a bus needs it’s lights on to be seen during the day…then a bike sure as hell does.
[quote=“joesax”]Great discussion.
I find a very noticeable difference in other drivers’ behaviour between when I ride with lights off and lights on in the daytime. On the odd occasion when I forget to put my lights on, I find people pulling out or cutting in front of me even more than usual.
This has a foundation in the psychology of perception. It’s not only that other drivers are more likely to notice you: a vehicle with lights on actually seems closer.[/quote]
I find that having my lights on stop people from pulling in front of me…so much…that sometimes it annoys me. For example a car is stopped in the middle of an intersection with his signal light on wanting to turn left. As I approach I see he has lots of time to go…but he doesn’t he just sits there waiting for me to go by…because my light is on. I’m not actually complaining about this…I’ll gladly trade people waiting too long for me to go by…in comparison to people pulling out in front of me causing me to brake hard .
It’s amazing how much difference it makes…especially here in Taiwan where people aren’t used to it…and therefore pay extra attention to it…whether they realize it or not. Another conversation I have with people when they say my light is on goes like this:
Them: You’re light is on.
Me: No, it isn’t.
Them: Oh yes it is.
Me: Really? How can you tell? It’s daytime.
Them: I can see it very clearly…it’s bright.
Me: Ahh, so if you can see it very clearly…then others probably can as well…making it less likely for them to hit me due to not noticing me.
Them: Fuck off smartass.
Me: Shut your mouth or I’ll knock off your mirror.
Well…except for the last two lines…that’s kinda how it goes.
Another thing you can say is…Shr hwei (secret soceity) Hei An (darkness)…wrote it how it sounds…kinda. If you someone tells you your lights are on and you tell them it’s because you’re in the “secrect society of the dark”…it usually gives them a good laugh. Some local guys who ride big bikes use that as their reply…and they taught me.
I think Taiwanese should keep with their tradition of not turning on their headlights in the daytime. This way the rest of us who do can feel safe that we stand out and get noticed on the road. When every Taiwanese motorist starts leaving their lights on all the time we won’t be the minority anymore, and won’t be as safe as when we stood out among the other vehicles.
[quote=“x08”]I agree with the comments, it’s kinda annoying at times having every joe-blow on the street coming up to inform you that your lights are on.[/quote]I used to get that occasionally in Taichung. Anyway, the slight annoyance was more than compensated for by the increased space other vehicles gave me. And in Taipei, no-one’s mentioned it.
By the way, I split these posts off from the original thread about HID lights.
Yes, I’ve always ridden and driven with my motorbike, scooter or car lights on in the daytime. I used to get those well-meaning alerts all the time back in the 90s, with people often waving me down to tell me, and when I got tired of trying to explain that I had the lights on deliberately to make myself more visible, I just gave up and resorted to thanking them, turning off the lights till I was out of sight, and then flipping them back on again.
However, it doesn’t ever happen these days, and hasn’t for several years. Perhaps it’s because the roads I ride/drive on most often now have signs advising all motorists to turn on their lights, and quite a lot of drivers and riders do so.
I’ve ridden and driven with me lights on all the time since the mid-70s. Not once in all of that time, either in the UK or here, has anyone ever said anything to me about it.
what do you all think about the scooter punks with the rear-facing blinders, whether linked to the brakes or not? Ofen they’re a strobe, too. very noticeable, but fekkin annoying.
US, especially California, is very fussy about this, so California-target bikes have all the funky emissions and cat converter stuff along with daytime running lights. Europe-target stuff seems more flexible.
what do you all think about the scooter punks with the rear-facing blinders, whether linked to the brakes or not? Ofen they’re a strobe, too. very noticeable, but fekkin annoying.[/quote]
Replacing indicator lights with bright whiteys is higher on my ‘WTF?!’ list.
Oh and the award for all-time super-dangerous fuck-me-I-can’t-see-any-more-mind-that-truck-dear award goes to the filth and their all-day xmas light parade.
All illumination is full bore in TheGingerMobile(s)
The Werks!
I tell the nagging doubters that it enables me to scope out ghouls far more easily.
That scares them, and makes them think.
Which must be equally scary!
I park underground, and I can’t see anything on my dash without the lights on. By the time I leave work, it’s dark. Hence lights on all day long. Nobody ever said anything about it, but I’ve only been driving a car here for a few months.
I heard from a Taiwanese friend that people used to think that running the lights uses more gas. Maybe that’s why down south they’ll keep 'em off at night? News travels slowly.
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Different markets, different specs I guess.