Lines and Queues

Keep your elbows out, feet evenly spaced, and put on your “don’t even fucking think about it” face. This even works better if you can growl well.

[quote] In fact I am convinced standing on one side and giving way to a handfull of people who are in a hurry is in fact slowing things down.
Imagine people would use both sides of an escalator instead of squezzing into one queue first - the througput could be dramatically increased, in particular at the MRT stations. [/quote]

Rascal, if you’re ever standing on the escalator and you hear someone making purposeful stamping noises as they walk up behind you, then you should consider a few things:

  1. People standing still are not moving faster than people who are walking. Count the number of people getting on to either side of the escalator at the bottom. The left side clears faster than the right side, until idiots like you stop them.

  2. It could be me coming up behind you, and the stamping is to warn you that I’m coming so that you have time to shift your arse.

  3. I am not usually in a hurry. I usually move with a sense of purpose. If you are bovine enough to stand there looking at someone else’s arse then that’s your problem. Move over and so it. Personally I believe that I have limited time on this planet, and I don’t want to waste any of it in contemplation of your buttocks.

  4. You have now been relieved of your illusion. Consider this a warning.

On good days I run up the escalator linking the brown and blue lines at Xhong Xiao Fuxing.

Generally I don’t think that Taiwan has a real problem, compared to India for instance. But I do get pissed off with people trying to crowd into spaces that aren’t going to be big enough for them until they let the people who are in get out. Coming off the MRT I do sometimes ‘spread out’ a little and be audible in my displeasure. Doesn’t make any difference, but it makes me feel better.

Finally, I have noticed something. Very often it seems that the persons standing gossiping in my way, oblivious to my presence, are speaking Taiwanese rather than Mandarin. Is this just my imagination?

Some of the smaller banks here in Kaohsiung don’t use numbers yet. My ICBC branch for instance. I’ve only gone there once.

It also seems that the worst line offenders are always of the “o” variety, either O Ji San, or O Ba San. They have various devices to try and fool the average liner uper. One being, the “I didn’t see you technique”. This is primarily employed by focusing their eyes on their goal to the ignorance of all potential obstacles, dangers, or people. This technique can also be employed when crossing streets at yellow or red lights, usually pushing large carts or driving bicycles. Sometimes a scoter may also be used but it must be driven at dangerously low speeds.

Another technique employed can be termed the “investigate and cut”. This strategy employs subterfuge whereby the O will pretend to investigate some goods or other suitable thing at the front of the line, and then unobtrusively (at least to themselves) slide their purchases onto the counter, thereby effectively cutting the line. This tactic can be foiled by an oberservant cashier or teller, however given this is Taiwan this is unlikely to happen.

[quote=“Kenny McCormick”]
this also explains why old little ladies like to get up right behind you in a line so close they are toe to heel with you. I understand that if you leave a space, that’s just an invitation to cut in, but man one time, in a bank lineup, we were the only people and this lady kept on bumping into me afraid of losing her spot. :laughing:[/quote]

The little old ladies are undercover security from FNAC…they are moonlighting for the transit cops…

or face?

When I detect fear of english from the pizza guy on the phone or a clerk I need to do more than a simple transaction with, I go into teacher mode, and help them speak english to me…take it slow, use what chinese you have and ensure them that they can do it…most times I get the pizza that I want…except for the “stuffed crust”…damn…can’t get that one across yet…it’s hilarious…“stah-fu ka-rus-ta, dong boo dong?” “Boo dong”

Cow!

Hakkasonic…you have it the nail smack on the head (violent metaphor for irony)…I have an aquaintance (weigowren) that I have had the great misfortune of having dined out with on about 6 occasions…this self-proclaimed bitch has yet to leave a restaurant without some aggro encounter…I now ensure that she’s not part of the party with the other diners of that group…it is really embarrassing man…losing one’s cool ain’t cool…I know cuz I have lost more cool than any three of you put together…now I laugh, chuckle, giggle, smile when I feel that fog coming on…if I am in a hurry and someone tries to jump in front of me at the sevee, I’ll just “piesay” them and push right back in front of them, a “tsai chen” and a smile once paid and fapio’d and OUT!..it’s too freakin’ hot out there to make your own emotional sweat…chill kids, chill…remember, Taiwan is a living YinYang…

Chinese inventions (that is, invented by the Chinese without influence from other cultures, who may in fact have invented them first):

  • Papermaking: 1st Century AD
  • Compass: 3rd Century AD
  • Gunpowder: 8th Century AD
  • Moveable Type: 11th Century AD
  • Girls dressed like whores selling betel nut: 20th Century AD
  • The Queue: ??? still waiting.

Frankly, as far as girls dressing like whores is concerned, Taiwan is a land of pure innocence compared to back home in the West. Which isn’t such a bad thing… The only problem I have is the disturbing trend to sexualize children. Parents who dress up their little girls in makeup and those kinderwhore outfits and trot them out on stage for beauty contests - an increasingly common phenomenon - that’s just freakin’ child abuse. Think JoBenet Ramsey. Ugh. And then there’s the whole cheerleader culture, which is based on teenage girls voluntarily contorting their bodies in public, shaking their ass in their short mini-skirts and turning themselves into premature sex objects.

[quote=“WarMonkey”]Chinese inventions

  • Compass: 3rd Century AD[/quote]

They invented it but didn’t know what to do with it or what they could use it for.

The one thing that I noticed here when I first arrived and is not going to go away is the complete lack of courtesy.

Try and hold a door open for someone, which I always do if they follow me out of a room or building. You will be met with a face that resembles a fish.
No thanks of course.

It’s also evident when you are walking along a street and there is a narrow gap that two people could just about fit through. The person approaching you doesn’t wait for (the sign we sort of have back home when one of us will allow the other to go first) you, they just go through.

Although I do notice from time to time people giving their seats up for pregnant women and OAPs, which is a positive sign.

The MRT is improving with regards to the esculators. But there is always one numbskull, usually a middle aged man who likes to stand on the LHS.
The taiwanese of course say nothing, but I like to shout at the cunt even if I am a few people back.

A kid jumped up and offered me his seat on the MRT last night. Odd, 'cos I often see adults giving up their places for anklebiters.

Must ave bin the way I was falling over drunkenly.

Oh, very clever you are but obviously you failed to notice that the right side can’t clear so fast because all the “idiots like me” need to squezze into one lane for a handfull of people like you, causing a huge pile up just before entering the escalator.

Like I said: use the stairs, then you can move at any speed without looking at buttocks and exercise at the same time. Typical example of a selfish person who thinks everyone has to give way when he/she comes … :?

If you’re not in a hurry, stand on the right, You won’t mind waiting a little, you’re not a hurry after all. Leave the left side for other people who are in a hurry (just because you’re not, doesn’t mean that others aren’t)
If you don’t want to wait, use the left side, but get a wiggle on, that side is for people in a hurry. I have often missed trains because someone was standing on the left and couldn’t understand why someone would want to take a train standing on the platform :x

not in a hurry -> stand on right
stand on left -> move those feet baby

How long has your friend been here? The great irony is that the longer a person has been here, the more intolerant they seem to be of Taiwan’s culture (yeah yeah, not everybody, but I’ve seen it an incredible number of times). My guess is that cultural friction is making these people less, not more, tolerant of Taiwan. I just re-read Beyond Culture by Edward Hall and it has some great stuff in there about how people from different cultures perceive personal space. Reminded me that some things in Taiwan me so furious even though I know they shouldn’t and that getting angry won’t help. I think I’m going to read that book once a month from now on.

How long has your friend been here? The great irony is that the longer a person has been here, the more intolerant they seem to be of Taiwan’s culture (yeah yeah, not everybody, but I’ve seen it an incredible number of times). My guess is that cultural friction is making these people less, not more, tolerant of Taiwan. I just re-read Beyond Culture by Edward Hall and it has some great stuff in there about how people from different cultures perceive personal space. Reminded me that some things in Taiwan me so furious even though I know they shouldn’t and that getting angry won’t help. I think I’m going to read that book once a month from now on.[/quote]

She’s been here 10 years. So your hypothesis is furthered in this case…

Zen and the Art of Archery…I forget the author…the most calming book I’ve ever re-read…

You fail to address the issue of “throughput” or rather explain why others have to suffer an inconvenience for a few like you who are obviously in a hurry - which is clearly your own fault.

Perhaps we have to look at this from a scientific point of view: :wink:
If an escalator can e.g. move 100 people side by side and say 10% of those are in a hurry, it means you do effectively only move 55 people in the same time [(100-10)/2+10] according to “your system”.
So if we would use 2 lanes as I suggested things would be much faster, the platforms clear more quickly and people can change train or leave the station quicker, too.
The argument of missing a train is weak, depending on when you arrive at a station you might have missed it already, or in other words if you would time your trip so it matches the train schedule you wouldn’t be late.
Since people using the MRT usually don’t do this the missed train (i.e. the one you just happen to see leaving) is just a phsychological thing - if you don’t see the train because it left 2 minutes earlier it won’t be a missed train and you are “on time” for the next one.

Escalators are IMHO not meant to be used for walking but standing on them like you can see in most other countries and you should also consider that not everyone is (physically) able to run/walk up the escalator stairs, even they wanted to. Thus those in a hurry do actually slow down the entire crowd and it’s not a matter of me having time / you being in a hurry but rather a question of what is the best benefit for all and not only a few. :slight_smile:

This is about lining up for the subway in New York, but so applicable to how many foreigners react in Taiwan (by Tom Wolfe, following around Edward Hall, an expert on overcrowding):

 [The commuters] rushed into line. They bellied each other, haunch to paunch, down the stairs. Human heads shone through the gratings. The species North European tried to create bubbles of space around themselves, about a foot and a half in diameter--
 "See, he's reacting against the line," says Dr. Hall.
 -- but the species Mediterranean presses on in. The hell with bubbles of space. The species North European resents that, this male human behind him pressing forward toward the booth... _breathing_ on him, he's disgusted, he pulls out of the line entirely, the species Mediterranean resents him for resenting it, and neither of them realizes what the hell they are getting irritable about exactly. And in all of them the old adrenals grow another micrometer.

[quote]Perhaps we have to address this from a scientific point of view: [/quote]Or a slightly non scientific way: if you’re standing still you can fit someone on each step, when you’re walking on the escalator, you can’t be so close, or do you ? so slightly less people on the escaltor at any one time, I guess. During really busy times, both sides seem to get used for standing anyway. Times like that I do sometimes take the stairs, but they are even worse for people getting in your way when you’re rushing. The escalators are faster because they are moving.

If it’s only slighty busy (right side full, left side empty) and I don’t want to wait, I go the left, and walk, so I’m not in others way behind me. If I don’t want to walk, I wait and stand on the right. You have to choose which one you have to do in busier times, depends how much of a hurry you are in. Just don’t get in someone else’s way because you don’t want to wait. If I’m not in a hurry, why would I be inconvienced to wait a few seconds ?
So what if I got up a bit late ? If I’m held up by someone standing the wrong side, then it’s obviously their fault, grrrrr :x If it’s sitting on the platform waiting for me, but I don’t get there in time, then yes, I have missed that one. That’s why I was rushing down the escaltors because I know it was there. grrrrr :imp:

I don’t understand why you guys are arguing about this. The sign and the recorded messages clearly say: stand on the right, walk on the left. There’s no argument. It’s the rule. It’s not like the Taipei MRT authorities are asking people to vote for a system to institute. When there is no such a rule, say in a department store, you can stand wherever you like, and people do.

When I don’t want to wait to get on the right side but don’t feel like walking up the whole left side, I simply walk up a few steps on the left until I reach an empty step on the right and just park myself into that niche. Problem solved!

It boils down to a massive lack of courtesy in this country. :imp:

Courtesy differs from culture to culture.

Stress on public transit seems to be fairly universal. Another quote from Wolfe’s (dates, but nevertheless applicable) article on Hall. Quoting Hall:

“You know, I’ve been on commuter trains here after everyone has been through one of these rushes, and I’ll tell you, there is enough acid flowing in the stomachs in every car to dissolve the rails underneath.”

Rules can be changed and my argument was to increase the throughput and avoid the massive pile up just before entering the escalator.
In fact the whole thing was a suggestion but someone was quick of accusing me to block the left lane deliberately and call me an idiot. Nevermind though.

On the other hand matthewh and myself know each other, so I guess there will be no hard feelings.
Otherwise I have to let him win 3-D Tic-Tac-Toe again at the Game Club … :wink:

I still feel that Taiwanese lack courtesy. Extremely self absorbed people.