Living in Taiwan vs Germany and Elsewhere

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

I doubt we could be good friends and certainly I do not post with vitriol on this forum aout life on the MRT or anything else in Taiwan. We leave that up to you touduke.
One can make negative about any remark another may make and you see to be an expert on this. But I would rather live here than in Germany where they have death squads running around killing immigrants.

As for the incident in the USA rather sickening those people who just laugh at this unforunate guy taking a few hits huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/1 … 97472.html

2

[quote=“Incubus”]This is why I love the Taipei MRT:

huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/1 … 97472.html[/quote]
Another reason I’m happier here than elsewhere.

3

I doubt we could be good friends and certainly I do not post with vitriol on this forum aout life on the MRT or anything else in Taiwan. We leave that up to you touduke.
One can make negative about any remark another may make and you see to be an expert on this. But I would rather live here than in Germany where they have death squads running around killing immigrants.

As for the incident in the USA rather sickening those people who just laugh at this unforunate guy taking a few hits huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/1 … 97472.html[/quote]

Ok, no friends then Dr. Spock. I was really thinking that at least some parts of your posts were tongue in cheek or somehow pushing it a little - sorry for the mistake.
About Germany. I read in Wiki that about 20% of the population in my home country has immigrant roots and around 30% of German children born today have at least one parent born abroad. Without checking crime statistics, it seems to me that, statistically speaking, foreigners in Germany live a safer life than foreigners in Taiwan. Immigrants in Germany have more rights and are more involved in public life and maybe most importantly more foreigners are given the chance to live and stay in my country as compared to yours. And, compare the numbers of foreign nationals who actually chose live inside both countries.
Without doubt, just 60 years after a terrible genocidal racist regime, today’s Germany is more open to foreigners and immigration than todays Taiwan choses to be. Compare the numbers of foreign students, look at the number of scholarships for foreigners etc etc. There is simply no comparison between your country and mine. As I see it you guys do beat us in the department of funky & grandiose slogans, patronizing attitudes and self-serving bias.

I absolutely don’t think it is necessary to boast about Germany’s openness, cause there are lots of problems, lots of dickheads and ignorance, lots of things to improve, but I think it is necessary to point out that Taiwan is in a different league altogether.

4

Mr. Spock, if you make remarks about Germany you should not be surprised about somebody responding, no matter in which thread.

5

Mr. Spock, if you make remarks about Germany you should not be surprised about somebody responding, no matter in which thread.
We can find an elegant way back to Taipei’s MRT - AFAIK the Danshui line vehicles were built in Germany.[/quote]

Who cares where they were built just as long as they run fine and are cheap to use. The MRT here is really convenient to travel around Taipei on. Especially as today it’s raining again and I don’t feel like riding my scooter in the rain. Not only that there is a lot of great eye candy on the MRT.

6

[quote=“touduke”]About Germany. I read in Wiki that about 20% of the population in my home country has immigrant roots and around 30% of German children born today have at least one parent born abroad. Without checking crime statistics, it seems to me that, statistically speaking, foreigners in Germany live a safer life than foreigners in Taiwan. Immigrants in Germany have more rights and are more involved in public life and maybe most importantly more foreigners are given the chance to live and stay in my country as compared to yours. And, compare the numbers of foreign nationals who actually chose live inside both countries.
Without doubt, just 60 years after a terrible genocidal racist regime, today’s Germany is more open to foreigners and immigration than todays Taiwan choses to be. Compare the numbers of foreign students, look at the number of scholarships for foreigners etc etc. There is simply no comparison between your country and mine. As I see it you guys do beat us in the department of funky & grandiose slogans, patronizing attitudes and self-serving bias.

I absolutely don’t think it is necessary to boast about Germany’s openness, cause there are lots of problems, lots of dickheads and ignorance, lots of things to improve, but I think it is necessary to point out that Taiwan is in a different league altogether.[/quote]

Touduke, sorry to bring this up again, but I can’t let you spout German government propaganda about how “open” and “foreigner-friendly” Germany is today without letting people here know the full truth. You seem to have a very deluded view of your home country and seem ill-informed about what’s going on in Germany on a daily basis. Do you ever read German news at all? Just visit spiegel.de on any given day and chances are very good you will find some news article about racism and xenophobia in Germany. And they don’t do this out of sensationalism, but because racism in its ugliest form is very common and a HUGE problem in Germany, one that seems to get bigger and bigger. And I’m not talking about what YOU consider “racism” in Taiwan such as people addressing you in English or assuming that you are American and such trivial things (which of course also happen all the time in various forms in Germany).

The fact is, people get molested, spat at, verbally abused, physically attacked, maimed and sometimes even killed in Germany by Germans just because they are of a different race or ethnicity. I could tell you many stories documenting racism in Germany that I’ve experienced firsthand in my 30+ years of living in Germany as a Taiwanese, sometimes being the victim, sometimes just being a witness. Dr Spock’s statement that there are “death squads running around killing immigrants” seems to be an overstatement made for effect, but sadly it is not far from the truth. I’m sure you’ve heard of the so-called “Nationalsozialistischer Untergrund” (National Socialist Underground), a recently uncovered Neonazi group (officials and media openly call it a “Neonazi terrorist organisation”) responsible for the murder of at least ten immigrants within the last ten years. Read about it here: tagesschau.de/inland/rechtsextremismus2.html

For those who do not read German, there’s an English version of the Spiegel news here: spiegel.de/international/ger … 82,00.html

Here’s a quote from the beginning of the article that sums it up: “Officials estimate that there are roughly 25,000 far-right extremists among Germany’s almost 82 million residents. Still, their views enjoy much more support than the numbers would suggest. Here, SPIEGEL ONLINE takes a close look at just how rooted right-wing extremism is in Germany.”

So how is Taiwan in a “different league” again? :loco:

Touduke, you are right that you have nothing to boast about when it comes to your home country, nothing at all. So forget your ideas about German superiority and Taiwanese inferiority once and for all. That kind of thinking is VERY old school, if you know what I mean.

PS: I’m not intentionally trying to put Germany down by any means, it used to also be my home country after all. I’m just trying to put things in perspective for you by telling some important facts that you seem not aware of or maybe just choose to deny.

7

If you can’t read German, try www.thelocal.de, has German news in English, and believe me, there are plenty of violence towards immigrants.

In fact when I was in Germany I could feel it… they don’t say it but they are almost trying to say “get out of our country” without trying to say it.

8

Strange! But, ok, GCRider, thanks for making my point!
I read Spiegel online as well . Let’s see 25,000 from 82 million erm, that’s little more than 0.03%

I paste what I wrote in another thread on this board (are Taiwanese racist)
I thought “today’s situation in Taiwan would be a dream come true for European racists”. Those anti-immigration folks who want to send foreigners back to “their countries” and might vote for right wing parties in the UK, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany etc would gladly accept their countries to be a place like Taiwan, a place with few foreigners, where a big group of these foreigners is send home after a 1 or 2 year stay and the others are a tiny scattered minority and more a less a freak show. I bet that in such a situation most racist assholes in those European countries (or everywhere else) would gladly smile at a foreign face and engage in a little small talk praising language skills and the proper way of munching a sausage.
Basically every insecure xenophobe would start to hate something else.

I am not saying that all those nice Taiwanese smiling at us, praising our Chinese stammering etc. are racists or right wing folks. Not at all. But I think that their chance to prove that they are open minded and welcoming to a increasing foreign population that is staying in their country and not just passing has yet to come.

Right now, I don’t think racism is a problem for white folks in Taiwan, I agree with those who say we benefit from positive racism. If you are not white, it is a totally different story already today.

Taiwan Luthiers

well in Taiwan they do say it! There are not many foreigners here on this island, but a big part of these few has to leave after 1 or 2 years, if they don’t they will be chased, arrested and deported.
Compare this to Germany, which has the third highest number of international immigrants worldwide.
Since you come up with personal experience. I know many foreigners who live in Germany, amongst them quite some Taiwanese who are happy and content with their lives.

Oh and there’s a nice MRT system in my hometown.

9

I believe we have just witnessed the “touduke, conversation candy maneuver.” When his position is completely defeated by overwhelming evidence, touduke backpedals and claims that his critic’s point was the one he was making all along. Nicely played!

Look, touduke, it’s not as if I cannot empathise with your plight. Yes, the stares can sometimes bug me. The seemingly patronising “your Chinese is so good” comments can seem repetitive. The insistence on English thing, well-- to be honest I haven’t experienced that a whole lot, but I’ll grant that it must be a minor irritant to you. For my part, I usually just answer in the language I was addressed in first, which is almost always Mandarin. The assumption of American citizenship of all caucasions in Taiwan is a bit quaint. Yes, unsolicited “Harro! Meiguoren!” from betelnut chewing bumpkins grates on me a bit sometimes. I definitely have my bad days with life here, don’t get me wrong.

On the other hand, in the grand scheme of things, what we generally deal with day to day is minor curiosity and interest. Yes, it is true that not everybody likes us. But I don’t live in fear of open violence-- not like in some places. Heck, a businessman friend of mine I saw yesterday informs me that new legislation is soon going to make it illegal for banks to discriminate against APRC/JFRV holders in banking matters.

Living here has, though, given me a new appreciation for the generations of Asian immigrants who moved to my country and everything they must have endured.

10

I’d be interested to see a post from Touduke once he’s lived in GErmany again for a few years with an Asian wife and a half-breed kid. I have the impression that he’d be a bit less impressed with Germany’s 0.03 percent of racist people. :laughing:

11

huh? since Mr. Spock was talking about death squads in Germany killing foreigners. CGRider made my point when he reported that this death squads are killing a person per year.
I further alluded that 0.03 % right wing idiots and “a lot more people who think in similar ways” in Germany are not so bad compared to other countries including Taiwan, were there is a overwhelming consensus amongst politicians and ordinary folks that Taiwan does not need foreigners and that those used and exploited as foreign labor are stripped of their passports and lots of rights and are managed like a herd of cows until there are kicked out again.

I agree with that Toasty.

Sandman, we are having our second son next month! :slight_smile:

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[quote=“touduke”][Strange! But, ok, GCRider, thanks for making my point! I read Spiegel online as well . Let’s see 25,000 from 82 million erm, that’s little more than 0.03%

Oh and there’s a nice MRT system in my hometown.[/quote]

IN Taiwan 0.000000000% There are no local terrorist organizations in Taiwan targeting foreigners. Maybe you should use your hometown MRT on a daily basis with your family. Maybe those nice people won’t ask you how much you paid for your wife either as has happened to several German friends of mine who took their asian partners back to Germany to visit relatives there. irna.ir/ENNewsShow.aspx?NID=30668883

You claim that expats are chased out of Taiwan and arrested and deported after 2 years, so please back this up with proof. Maybe they must have missed you as you are obviously still here as as that must be so sad for you.

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no, I don’t claim that.

huh, I was lucky I didn’t had to pay anything to the in-laws as it is custom here. If anyone asks I would explain that.
I think Germans are more friendly than Taiwanese and since there are so many foreigners in Germany, especially in the area I come from (just read the figures I posted in this thread) riding the MRT there are often more foreign citizens than “old fashion germanic ones”.
One joy of leaving Taiwan would be seeing todays Germany’s ethnic mix up.

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no, I don’t claim that…[/quote]

Really, let me quote you to refresh your memory, it’s clear as day. You must have a terrible brain disease as you cannot recall what you just wrote a few minutes earlier.

15

OK so Dr Spock brings up death squads and GC Confirms you point that having a death squad only killing one person a year? But thats only one death squad not all the others.
So killng one a year from each death squad must be ok for you then. No big deal at all :loco: :loco:

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Dingo dean, I’m talking about foreign blue collar workers, you get plenty of information about their situation in Taiwan on this very board and on the net.

about the death squads in Germany - even angry GCRider admitted that there are non. The killing of one person a year thing is a story about a terrorist neo-nazi group that ended by the double suicide of 2 of their 3 members, while the third is in police custody. I hope police is continuing to dig in the filth and they get more of this fuckers.

I bet, statistically speaking, there are more foreign nationals hurt and killed in Taiwan by Taiwanese than foreign nationals in Germany are hurt and killed by Germans.

I think work for a MRT system here in Taichung has started - how long will it take to finish the first like?

17

Please provide your official links and stats for both Germany and Taiwan then you can compare because otherwise you are just blowing smoke out your arse. Now you claim there are no death squads in Germany even those the German news has been all about this death squad for ten years killing immigrants. Oh I guess because you mean they got caught and some killed themselves there are no more death squads in Germany. I get it now.

18

OK so Dr Spock brings up death squads and GC Confirms you point that having a death squad only killing one person a year? But thats only one death squad not all the others.
So killng one a year from each death squad must be ok for you then. No big deal at all :loco: :loco:[/quote]

Exactly.

Touduke, please just admit that it’s pointless trying to argue against facts. The estimated 25,000 right-wing extremists mentioned in the article are just the very harcore Neonazi thugs that you will easily recognize in the streets in many German cities, especially the former East Germany. They usually have “Nazi haircuts” or shaved heads, wear military boots and so-called “bomber jackets” often inscribed with some Nazi slogan on the back (you as a German of course will know exactly what I’m talking about…). Some may not display their right-wing affiliation so openly, but they still have the same mindset. And to have even 0.03% of all Germans belong to this group of people is damning for German society as there are many many sympathizers.

This is from the article I mentioned:

“The murders were committed by just three people. But how do things look like if you take a broader view of the entire far-right scene in Germany?”

And this:

"Part 7: How Widespread are Far-Right Views?

Part of the FES study involved a survey on responses to certain positions frequently taken by members of Germany’s far right. A cross-section of the German population was asked whether they agree with the following statements. (For these results, the answers “I fully agree” and “I largely agree” were combined.)

  • Foreigners come to Germany to take advantage of the welfare state: 34.3 percent

  • Germany is in serious danger of being overrun by foreigners: 35.6 percent

  • If it weren’t for the Holocaust, Hitler would be remembered as a great statesman: 10.7 percent

  • National Socialism also had its good aspects: 10.3 percent

  • We need a leader who can rule Germany with a firm hand for the benefit of all: 13.2 percent

  • Germans actually are naturally superior to other people: 13.3 percent

  • Some lives have value while others don’t: 10.8 percent"

I know you will try to argue that Taiwanese are much worse and that 50% of all Taiwanese want all foreigners out, etc. But funny, I’ve never heard a Taiwanese say the equivalent of “Auslaender raus!” (“Foreigners out!”), a slogan which almost every foreigner who has ever lived in Germany is familiar with. In fact, I don’t know if such slogan exists in Taiwan at all.

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[quote=“touduke”]

… we are having our second son next month! :slight_smile:[/quote]

Sincerest congratulations to you. :slight_smile:

As for the rest, I think you are guilty of idealising your country of origin while, at the same time, making mountains out of the minor stuff you deal with daily here. You are failing to see either place objectively. Perhaps you need a little time away from here to regain some perspective.

20

I have never heard any people saying to foreigners that they should get out of Taiwan either. Simply we do not have the expression “Auslaender raus!” in Chinese.