Admittedly Taoyuan is pretty bad even as Taiwan cities/towns go…just a commuter/industrial city, and yes, the weather and air IS better in Taoyuan (than Taipei), streets are wider, less crowded with less vehicles and no basin effect you see. so wind and air can circulate a bit better.
That’s news to me. The only part of Taoyuan that has wide streets is the new part heading west (I think it is). The rest looks like a complete mess and the streets are terribly congested.
And Taipei is any better? Apart from a few main arteries in central Taipei the roads are just as bad there. Not trying to defend the area around the main station in Taoyuan, but it’s not really that different from other parts of this country. The old parts are just like the old parts in any city in the world for that matter, as people don’t generally plan ahead and that’s been a major problem here too.
I don’t know why most of you are dissing Taoyuan so badly, as there are far worse places I can think of to live in here.
TheLostSwede: I agree that parts of Taipei are an absolute pigsty too, as are most other places in this country. However, they do have their redeeming features, be they man-made (i.e. nightlife, cultural attractions) or natural (i.e. mountains, hot springs, beaches). Honestly, what’s one attraction of Taoyuan City that you would show someone who happened to be here? I’m not talking about going out of your way to see it, like making a trip from Taipei. I’m talking about even if you were based in Taoyuan City, what would you see without leaving the city?
I would say that the old parts of cities here are not like the old parts of other cities in other countries, for two reasons. Firstly, in many other countries, the old parts of town are actually old. Even in Australia, a young country by all accounts, the old parts of Sydney, Melbourne, etc. are actually old, and they’ve tried to preserve that tastefully. Or, if they have modernised them, they’ve gone the whole hog and called in the latest snazzy, wacky designer. Many of the problems in this country are less than fifty years old, often considerably so. They’re the direct result of piss-poor urban planning and being completely unable to give a fuck about aesthetics whatsoever in the modern era and there’s no excuse for that. Jesus, at least in former-communist countries, they had the excuse that they were trying to build fucking ugly buildings because that was intrinsic to their philosophy. What’s the excuse here? Add into that the fact that there seems to be absolutely no zoning at all or any kind of rhyme or reason to anything. Add into that that everyone selling some 5NT piece of shit can spill half her shit out onto the footpath, coupled with scooters parking there and that’s half the explanation for town/city centres in this country being an absolute pigsty.
The other difference (which is related to the above), and something that makes an enormous difference, is that in many other cities in other parts of the world, the centre is effectively closed to all but pedestrian, and perhaps bicycle, traffic (delivery vehicles excepted). That has a massive effect on a place. Massive. Taoyuan, amongst other places, could seriously do with telling everyone with a car or scooter to fuck off from the city centre. They should have installed a tram system years ago, but given that they can’t, they could have a fleet of buses actually doing the task. The current public transportation system is a joke. People use private transport because public transport is a joke, but public transport is a joke because everyone uses private transport.
Why is everyone dissing Taoyuan so much? For me, it’s because I have to deal with this shit on a daily basis and also because at some point, my relatives from overseas are going to come here and be appalled. Virtually every adult student I teach (rich, successful, influential business people, professionals and government employees) has been to half a dozen European nations, plus your pick of Japan, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the U.S. Do they walk around with their eyes closed when they go overseas? Taoyuan is special in that for anyone not arriving at night, it’s going to be the first place anyone new to this country sees as they goes to, through or past it because of the airport. The government is basically saying it has no pride because the first place people arrive at (the airport), its satellite city, and the route to Taipei is going to be an eyesore.
If there’s one phrase that should be the national motto of this country, despite all the bullshit bandied about regarding how Westerners are so much more individualistic than Taiwanese/Chinese, it’s “I’m all right, and fuck you!” This place is a poster child for the tragedy of the commons.
GuyInTaiwan, I have thought about all the things you have stated here a million times. It’s the fundamental problem in the country which is a lack of civic mindedness and pride of place, what they call ‘bei dong-passivity’ in Chinese. Criminal and corrupt elements of society take advantage of this. Usually that extends into some parts of the society but here it seems to extend from top to bottom, as you stated, many have travelled overseas but seem content with the way things are here, as in the ‘mei you ban fa-nothing we can do’ response. The same situation exists in large parts of the country.
Taoyuan’s train station and city centre area is a criminal mess which hasn’t improved over the last 10 years although it handles huge numbers of passengers through the train station. The train station access seems to be uniquely designed that you have to risk your life to get in and out of it.
The ideas you have put forward are very similar to my thoughts, ban scooters from central areas of Taoyuan/Taipei, stop pavement parking, allow pedestrianised areas to grow. Taipei has it’s cultural/shopping/entertaiment area for kids, where’s the one for adults, XinYi, a collection of Japanese dept stores, you have to be kidding me. Create more parks by knocking down old gong yu tenements, building high rise with public-private development.
These ideas seems self evident and actually acceptable to the population with a bit of prodding…however the govt. class here has a distinct lack of leadership and spine to push through anything, everybody is accorded a say, everybody has the right to ride their personal motor vehicle and park it on their tiny bit of space and therefore nothing gets done.
Of course you point out these things to Taiwanese the next thing is the ‘defensive’ reaction…instead of seeing it as a constructive thing. Taiwanese, like most Asians, are too ‘bei dong’ , they focus on the money in front of their face, in getting their kids into the best schools, meanwhile spend no time to improve the environment they live in almost everyday of their lives!
[quote=“headhonchoII”]GuyInTaiwan, I have thought about all the things you have stated here a million times. It’s the fundamental problem in the country which is a lack of civic mindedness and pride of place, what they call ‘bei dong-passivity’ in Chinese. Criminal and corrupt elements of society take advantage of this. Usually that extends into some parts of the society but here it seems to extend from top to bottom, as you stated, many have travelled overseas but seem content with the way things are here, as in the ‘mei you ban fa-nothing we can do’ response. The same situation exists in large parts of the country.
Taoyuan’s train station and city centre area is a criminal mess which hasn’t improved over the last 10 years although it handles huge numbers of passengers through the train station. The train station access seems to be uniquely designed that you have to risk your life to get in and out of it.
The ideas you have put forward are very similar to my thoughts, ban scooters from central areas of Taoyuan/Taipei, stop pavement parking, allow pedestrianised areas to grow. Taipei has it’s cultural/shopping/entertaiment area for kids, where’s the one for adults, Xinyi, a collection of Japanese dept stores, you have to be kidding me. Create more parks by knocking down old gong yu tenements, building high rise with public-private development.
These ideas seems self evident and actually acceptable to the population with a bit of prodding…however the govt. class here has a distinct lack of leadership and spine to push through anything, everybody is accorded a say, everybody has the right to ride their personal motor vehicle and park it on their tiny bit of space and therefore nothing gets done.
Of course you point out these things to Taiwanese the next thing is the ‘defensive’ reaction…instead of seeing it as a constructive thing. Taiwanese, like most Asians, are too ‘bei dong’ , they focus on the money in front of their face, in getting their kids into the best schools, meanwhile spend no time to improve the environment they live in almost everyday of their lives![/quote]
Yes, I agree with you. The problem really is a tragedy of the commons. You only have to look at how people drive here. You also only have to look at the attitude towards pets/stray animals in general. The mindset is disgusting.
Regarding parks, there’s a fairly big park in Taoyuan that is bounded by the major roads Daxing West Road and Zhong Zheng Road. The’ve made it smaller now and are developing part of it and surrounding vacant blocks into residential high rises. People used to go there to hang out, and there used to be a lot of joggers, etc. There was a real open feel to it. That’s going to be lost now as it will really be in the shadows so to speak. People just don’t seem to get how important big, open spaces are for recreation, which in turn is really good for the physical and mental health of people, not to mention it gets families doing stuff together.
GuyInTaiwan, we’ll just agree to agree shall we and leave it at that 
Wife. afraid. of. open. space.
Likes. crowded. smelly. streets.
In my family my little nephew never ever gets out, he plays all ipods ifracks igames PChendheld-ringa-dingi stuff, but he is on medication against the nervous ticks. So no problem.
What you say only applies to furriners.
Wife family doing stuff together means they all sit in a crowded room and watch TV, shout at each other and the nephew plays computer while he watches Manga cartoons with stroboscopic color effects and Japanese coming out of the left speaker and Chinese out of the right one at … insane noise levels.
You don’t understand […insert here…] culture.
I am not enjoying this.
Wife. afraid. of. open. space.
Likes. crowded. smelly. streets.[/quote]
Haha. Yes, though this park did actually have a fair number of people at it, and it also gave them somewhere to hold the Lantern Festival this year. My girlfriend quite likes the open spaces. She’s a bit odd though. She also likes the water and doesn’t mind getting tanned.
In my family my little nephew never ever gets out, he plays all ipods ifracks igames PChendheld-ringa-dingi stuff, but he is on medication against the nervous ticks. So no problem.
What you say only applies to furriners.[/quote]
Haha. Yes. It’s going to be really interesting to see where the Taiwanese will be at in twenty years. I’m predicting more obese and hyperactive than Western kids.
[quote][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”] not to mention it gets families doing stuff together.[/quote]Wife family doing stuff together means they all sit in a crowded room and watch TV, shout at each other and the nephew plays computer while he watches Manga cartoons with stroboscopic color effects and Japanese coming out of the left speaker and Chinese out of the right one at … insane noise levels.
You don’t understand […insert here…] culture.
I am not enjoying this.
[/quote]
Great post. Yes, I don’t get it at all. The irony is though that a large part of what passes for modern Taiwanese culture isn’t actually Taiwanese at all.
Yes OK, Taiwan certainly has Japanese influence (also Western) and my family here is rather Chinese than Taiwanese I guess (Taipei based will-still-vote-for-Blue-even-if-the-party-program-contains-extermination-of-all-human-life-on-Taiwan kinda Chinese like).
Well, there is one thing, at least: the only fully intact Japanese Shinto shrine left in Taiwan is in Taoyuan.
Directions please!
I live in a very pleasant bit of Taoyuan County, right between Yangmei and Longtan, the best area I have seen in Taiwan so far.
Highly recommended, but not for the ones who pine for the nightlife of the big city.
No. 200 Chenggong Rd., Taoyuan City
台灣桃園縣桃園市成功路三段200號
The shrine is near the entrance to Tiger Mountain. It’s just off the road.
Is that near the tatty market selling crap near the overpass to Gueishan or not, just so I can get my bearings on a real Taoyuan landmark? 
Just wanted to add to this thread a link to my page for Taoyuan city:
http://www.geocities.com/allhou/taoyuanscene.htm
Let me know if there are any places you think I should add to the page. And…if you know of a good laundry where I can drop off a bag of laundry a couple of times a week (not a coin-operated place) let me know…Thank you.
Moving to Taoyuan on Thursday (just by chance!) - looking for any input on recommended neighborhoods, streets, buildings, even leads on apartments if you have them! (Budget - $15,000). My partner and I visited today and saw there is quite a lot to choose from, but it’s overwhelming to start from scratch!
is shite
Live off the main street that runs along Shitoushan. Quieter and you could get views of the grassy hills.
I geuss that’d be Da Yiou Road. Best part of Taoyuan by far.
The rest is, well, grimy and forgettable. Avoid the central area near the station if possible, though there is quite a good market north east of the new theater and performoing arts space in the center of town, part of a new development that’s meant to revitalise the center and has remained stubbornly unbuilt for years. Promises!