Loan from the bank

As many of you know, I have a school and have been looking for finances to expand. Today I went to the ICBC where I live, and spoke with the manager. He told me that if Central bank doesn’t have a written law that would stop him from giving me a loan, that he would!!

This is where I need help. I have looked over the thread, but am still unclear. Could someone please tell me if there is a law that forbids banks from giving foreigners loans?

If there is any part of the policy of Central bank that you think might help me get the loan, please let me know.

I have posted the same post in the ‘credit in Taiwan’ thread, but thought I might have better luck at a response in a new topic thread.

Sorry about the double post!!

Thanks :slight_smile: !

He should know if the Central Bank has any such law, that’s his job.

So far, no-one in any bank has been able to justify their ill-treatment of foreigners on the grounds of laws or regulations created under those laws. Not to me, anyway.

They come up with creative excuses such as 'Our computer won’t accept your ID number and we are therefore unable to process your application." Actually, this seems to be the root of the problem. The systems are created on the assumption that every applicant is a Taiwanese national with the right paperwork. And there is no room in the system for an individual to assess your credit-worthiness on your own merits.

Also, credit risk doesn’t seem to be managed in a way that makes any sense. My credit card application didn’t really seem to take account of my financial situation. I simply bludgeoned the bank into accepting me as a real person and out popped a credit card.

Although he personally may be willing to lend you money, it’s not his money. There probably exists no procedure for him to give you a loan. It’s not a case of being told he can’t. It’s a case of not being told he can.

And maybe he was just being nice to you to make you go away. It does happen.

I wish you all the best with it.

I agree with pretty much everything you have said. I am not counting on him saying yes. I more plan to test the system. I don’t have enough information yet, but I am thinking something like this. (unresearched) “According to the Fair Trade Law article 24, denying a loan to me simply because I am a foreigner is discrimination…” I will take my complaint to head office and push. Who knows? I might get a loan out it. :laughing: :bouncy: :laughing:

Lets put it to the test. Any laws or relevant information that you might have, please share!

I wish that more of us could get organized. Not as the Canadians or Europeans, or whatever society, but as a community. Take all of our issues put them on the table. If we really wanted to, we could make them listen. It would only take time, committment, and patience to change the way we live here. Numbers matter most. When it is only one of us calling, its not impossible, but its very hard to get things done. If we planned it right, they could not deny us! :snooty: :uhhuh:

Honour, the best way IMHO to handle this would as a business to be to take it to your relevant chamber of commerce, these organisations hold regular meetings with the governments on all areas of concern, raising it through those channels might provide more help than you expect.

In my own experience trying to get a loan as a foriegner, it was entirely possible, if, I was willing to accept an interest rate that hovered around 11%. Mind you we did not have any property to secure the loan. It became apparent to me that if you have land or a house to back up your signature they will give you a loan for a more reasonable 2~4%. I balked at 11% and did not investigate further and am waiting for real funds in order to expand.

Loretta

American Express give the lie to all that. They couldn’t give a monkey’s who you are as long as you appear to have a good salary and are likely to pay back your borrowings. The law does however appear to require a foreign applicant to have an ARC, which is entirely reasonable IMHO.

Not much progress in this area. I don’t know how impleased found it easy to get a loan. Even if I was willing to pay a higher interest rate, bank staff stopped cold :astonished: in their activity when they heard a foreigner asking for a loan. Majority of the banks I tried said I needed a Taiwan ID. I had to repeat several times that I was talking about single foreigners that have a business or that could prove their income. I found some relevant laws, but the banks don’t seem to want to honour them. The other banks said you have to have a “company” license, and they have to agree with the purpose of your company, then MAYBE!!!

Oh grief :doh: !

[quote=“Honour”]Not much progress in this area. I don’t know how impleased found it easy to get a loan. Even if I was willing to pay a higher interest rate, bank staff stopped cold :astonished: in their activity when they heard a foreigner asking for a loan. Majority of the banks I tried said I needed a Taiwan ID. I had to repeat several times that I was talking about single foreigners that have a business or that could prove their income. I found some relevant laws, but the banks don’t seem to want to honour them. The other banks said you have to have a “company” license, and they have to agree with the purpose of your company, then MAYBE!!!

Oh grief :doh: ![/quote]

Sue them, or threaten to sue them. Threatening seems to work well with some thicker headed people in Taiwan. Ask Igorveni. :slight_smile:

What’s the point of having a law if normal citizens won’t honor it??? Don’t let their ignorance befuddle progress.

We phoned them, they came a runnin’ and we showed them our income statements. They came to our place of business, maybe that was the difference. If I simply walked into a bank and said I wanted a loan to expand, I don’t think it would be that easy. We also do have a “company” license as any legitimate business should in Taiwan. If your company is not registered and you don’t have a uniform tax number aka business license, that may be a problem. Try calling them and ask someone to come over and talk.

Its definately annoying. I mean “company” license in the sense of the “company” license that requires an investment of 200,000USD. Sorry, I can’t write chinese. If I could you would know which type of license I mean. Of course, I have a license for my business, I wouldn’t go into a bank and say, “Hey, I am me, and I want to expand my illegal business, will you give me a loan?” However, my investment is no where near the required amount. 200,000USD :noway:

This is what I mean about listing our issues and addressing them together as a group, that is not represented by anyone other than ourselves. I know, going to the chamber of commerce is “the suggested” way, but I am sure they also have an agenda. If not, this issue would have been taken care of by now.

There may be hope…
This is taken from the HSBC taiwan English website…
They must honor what they say…so must give you a loan…on the condition they actulally think you’re good for it… very dif than just not having Taiwan ID.

Ski

hsbc.com.tw/tw/product/plb/tax.htm

Whether it is for a new car or new furniture, for a vacation, a study-abroad, or even to get married, HSBC can help.

[color=red]No guarantor or security needed[/color]
[color=red]HSBC Personal Installment Loan does not require a guarantor or need another asset as security. [/color]You can apply for a line of credit quickly and conveniently. The maximum credit limit is TWD800,000. * With this extra funding, you can make your dreams come true and spice up your life.
Low interest rates, no credit insurance charge and a low account management fee.
Many banks charge a low interest rate however insists on additional credit insurance charges and account management fees of TWD6,000 - 7,000. HSBC Personal Installment Loan, in addition to low interest rates, has no credit insurance charge and a very low account management fee.
Benefit from other HSBC financial services
When you become an HSBC personal loan customer, you can also benefit from our other professional financial services such as cash management, credit card, investment and mortgage provided with your HSBC money management account.

*HSBC reserves the right to grant loans and to determine the conditions of the loan.

Well I tried… :unamused:

Here is the response I recieved from HSBC today:

From: csr@hsbc.com.tw
To: thehonourgroup@yahoo.ca
Subject: Customer Service Response [#1117956]

Dear Customer

We are glad to receive your message dated 30 May 2005.

Concerning your request, please be advised that if you are not a Taiwan
citizen, it is required to prepare your passport, Alien Resident
Certificate
(ARC), income proof and a guarantor to apply for Personal Installment
Loan with
HSBC Taiwan.

If you would like to apply for an ARC, you can find some useful
information at
the following website address:
db.npa.gov.tw/fore-eng/en_index.htm

If the required documents have been prepared, we suggest you to contact
our
service hotline at +886-2-80723000 for further processing.

Should you have any other query, please feel free to email us again.
Thank you.

Sincerely

Customer Care Centre
HSBC Taiwan

I think that you could challenged them on the guarantour issue. If you could provide everything else they ask for then it could, in my mind be a case of false advertising. But I’m not an expert.

It seems that if you say no guarantor required it should be that way.

Good luck

Ski

I’ve talked at length with HSBC about this. The fact that their day-to-day communications are handled by low-level staffers with poor English and a shaky grasp of what they are talking about doesn’t help.

Basically, as I understand it, they need to have some ‘security’ even if they don’t actually secure the loan against anything. I’m sure this makes perfect sense to someone, if not to me. In other words, they want to see that you have assets that they could pursue if you default.

This rule is proclaimed to be universal, ie they don’t lend to anyone who doesn’t have something of value - usually property - regardless of nationality. Until I’ve seen how a Taiwanese is treated when they apply I have no way to make a comparison with how they treat a foreigner. So I can’t vouch for the truth of what they have told me, but it does at least make sense.

As a foreigner you probably don’t have any assets here that will make them feel more comfortable with lending you money, therefore they ask that someone with some assets - ie a local - step up to guarantee your debt.

If true then this makes more sense than the crap I’ve been getting from Chinatrust, and may even be due to regulatory issues. The foreign banks are subject to more limitations than local banks due to protectionism, or so I am told. Making sense of it all is a an arduous process and I don’t have the time or energy to pursue this properly. But here’s a little free advice:

If you do a little detective work, such as entering the words ‘hsbc taiwan’ into google, you may find a page such as this one and thus learn the name of the person in charge of HSBC in Taiwan.

Try entering his name together with the word ‘taiwan’ and among the listings there may be something containing a photo and a ‘mailto’ tag that will allow you to send him an email directly.

That’s what I did anyway, and the eventual result was that I got an unsecured credit card. Have fun. :slight_smile:

Has anything come of this? I was thinking of trying to do the same thing at HSBC as I have a corporate account there, has anyone had any luck?

[quote=“Honour”]

I wish that more of us could get organized. Not as the Canadians or Europeans, or whatever society, but as a community. Take all of our issues put them on the table. If we really wanted to, we could make them listen. It would only take time, committment, and patience to change the way we live here. Numbers matter most. When it is only one of us calling, its not impossible, but its very hard to get things done. If we planned it right, they could not deny us! :snooty: :uhhuh:[/quote]

I strongly agree with this idea.
I think that there are enough foreign run businesses and business interests here to justify a Foriegn Businesspeople’s Association.
In Toronto I believe there are both “Chinese Businessmen Association” and “Korean Businessmen Association.” The father of one of my friends back home was a member of the Korean one and told me that they got more done that way.

I’m hoping I have enough time to stop by at the Function MrHe mentioned in his sticky. (April 16th Carnegies)