# Loan words/ near cognates/ transliterations, or whatever **URL:** \ **Category:** Learning Chinese\ **Created:** [December 23, 2007, 11:38am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189 "2007-12-23T11:38:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![skeptic\_yank](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@skeptic\_yank](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/skeptic_yank)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 5:23am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/21 "2007-12-25T05:23:02Z")
this past summer i sat down and came up with 500+. would be a huge help towards helping students gain a critical mass of words. i’ll give you some chinese words, you tell me the english equivalent: bijini kang nai xin zhe li i got hundreds of em. anybody wanna buy the book? (That’s bikini, carnation and jelly.) ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_yank](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@skeptic\_yank](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/skeptic_yank)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 6:47am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/22 "2007-12-25T06:47:02Z")
magic/magistrate is indo-persian (IIRC) and the diffusion spread both east and west. ---
**Author:** ![bob](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@bob](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/bob)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 1:18pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/23 "2007-12-25T13:18:00Z")
> [@skeptic\_yank](#): > > this past summer i sat down and came up with 500+. would be a huge help towards helping students gain a critical mass of words. > > I’ll give you some Chinese words, you tell me the English equivalent: > > bijini > kang nai xin > zhe li > > i got hundreds of em. anybody wanna buy the book? If I bought it, could I post it here? How much do you want for it? Are you serious? Or, could you be induced by the fame and glory such a public offering would bring your way, undying respect and appreciation? An opportunity to see us trip and fumble over ourselves trying to decide how to classify the entries in your list, correct spellings perhaps, add tones, offer up an etymology etc. I could beg. Do this :notworthy:? ---
**Author:** ![bob](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@bob](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/bob)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/24 "2007-12-25T13:34:48Z")
> [@skeptic\_yank](#): > > magic/magistrate is indo-persian (IIRC) and the diffusion spread both east and west. The translation I get for magic is - mo2li4. For magistrate - zhang3guan1/xian4zhang3. Interesting as examples of real cognates I guess but since they have both gone though so many changes since whatever they were in indo-persian I don’t think I’ll add them to the list. Anyway, thanks I thought there must be “some” words like this at least. ---
**Author:** ![Chris](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@Chris](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Chris)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 2:31pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/25 "2007-12-25T14:31:35Z")
> [@bob](#): > > > [@Chris](#): > > > > Chinese and English are completely unrelated languages, so there can be no true cognates (i.e. words stemming from the same roots in common parent languages). > > > > There are, however, words in Chinese that are borrowed from languages like Sanskrit, in in such a case we can find English-Sanskrit cognates in Chinese: > > > > 南無 and “name” > > 達摩 and “firm” > > 佛陀 and “bode” > > Resident expert gives nan2wu2, da2mou2 and fou2tou2 as the meanings for the characters above. The first is south buddha, the others just buddha. I am truly confused now. Resident expert needs to brush up on their Buddhism. 南無: ostensibly “nanwu” but more properly pronounced (according to the bopomofo found in educational Buddhist texts) as “namo”, from Middle Chinese “nam-mo” (to submit to, to make obeisance to). From the Sanskrit verb “nam” (to bow, to honor). It comes from the Proto-Indo-European root hnom-n-: “name”, a name originally being an appellation of honor. English “name” is derived from this root through Germanic, “nominate” through Latin. 達摩: “damo” (= dharma), from Middle Chinese “dat-ma”, from Sanskrit “dharma” (law), from suffixed Proto-Indo-European root dher-m-: to hold, to support. Latin “firmus” (firm, stable) is derived from this same root, which became “firm” in English via French. 佛陀: “fotuo” (=Buddha), from Middle Chinese “but-da”, from Sanskrit “Buddha” (awakened one), from Proto-Indo-European root bheudh-: to wake up. The English word “bode” this same root. Or so I have read. ---
**Author:** ![bob](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@bob](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/bob)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/26 "2007-12-25T15:23:08Z")
> [@Chris](#): > > Or so I have read. 😆 Yes, apparently you have. Wow. Anyway, “name”, “firm” and “bode” are true English - Chinese cognates. Awesome. I hope you’ll understand though if I don’t add them to my list as the pronunciation changes have been such as to make these particular examples unsuitable to the basic idea. I edited the original post in this thread to reflect some changes in perspective… [forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … c&&start=0](http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=67183&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0) ---
**Author:** ![sjcma](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@sjcma](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/sjcma)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2007, 12:47am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/27 "2007-12-26T00:47:51Z")
> [@Chris](#): > > Resident expert needs to brush up on their Buddhism. > > 南無: ostensibly “nanwu” but more properly pronounced (according to the bopomofo found in educational Buddhist texts) as “namo”, from Middle Chinese “nam-mo” (to submit to, to make obeisance to). From the Sanskrit verb “nam” (to bow, to honor). It comes from the Proto-Indo-European root hnom-n-: “name”, a name originally being an appellation of honor. English “name” is derived from this root through Germanic, “nominate” through Latin. > > 達摩: “damo” (= dharma), from Middle Chinese “dat-ma”, from Sanskrit “dharma” (law), from suffixed Proto-Indo-European root dher-m-: to hold, to support. Latin “firmus” (firm, stable) is derived from this same root, which became “firm” in English via French. > > 佛陀: “fotuo” (=Buddha), from Middle Chinese “but-da”, from Sanskrit “Buddha” (awakened one), from Proto-Indo-European root bheudh-: to wake up. The English word “bode” this same root. > > Or so I have read. This is where the English-Chinese cognates are more obvious if you look at other Chinese dialects. Cantonese and Taiwanese have retained more of old Chinese in their pronunciation and thus, Buddhist terms in general sound closer to the original Sanskrit than Mandarin. For example: 1. nan2wu2 is “nam-mo” in Cantonese 2. da2mo2 is “dat-mo” in Cantonese and Minnan 3. fo2tuo2 is “but-do” in Minnan ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_yank](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@skeptic\_yank](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/skeptic_yank)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/28 "2008-02-17T01:54:13Z")
i am about 10,000 miles away from my list. i’ll sit down and see what i can recall. it was made with the intention of letting students gain a quicker critical mass of words to engender “cooler” conversation. so, trademarked names are included. in the defense of such, trademark names often mutate into everyday terms, eg, polo shirt. also, we live in a materialistic culture. recognizition of such is good. BMW = “beamer” in western slang becomes “bao ma” in chinese. easy enough. then you tell them that baoma mean “treasured/precious horse/ride” and some very useful terms are sucked up right quick into their long term memory. much better than writing the character for horse 3 score times. knowing these easy words would be a nice easy entry in that such recognizes the commonalities of the languages. my intro chinese classes always started the same way: instructor tells oversubscribed class how hard chinese is and then days of pronunciation drills until enough kids drop to match the teacher’s desired load. this “filtering” of the student pool is bad. uh… cushion= gu chen humor= yu mor walmart= wo er mart ice cream…ice = bing, cream=“ji ling” via cantonese dialect hundreds, if not thousands of em. ---
**Author:** ![sjcma](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@sjcma](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/sjcma)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2008, 4:21am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/29 "2008-02-18T04:21:02Z")
> [@skeptic\_yank](#): > > cream=“ji ling” via cantonese dialect Why do you think this is from Cantonese? ---
**Author:** ![Chris](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@Chris](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Chris)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/30 "2008-02-18T04:54:31Z")
Isn’t the Canto term for ice cream “snow cake”? 雪糕 ---
**Author:** ![bob](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@bob](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/bob)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/31 "2008-02-18T05:27:37Z")
I learned to day that “lemon” came from Kashmir through China (limeng) to the Middle east, and finally to europe and then to the states where it became an essential ingredient in a well known refreshing beverage, before making it’s way back to England to become part of a six minute Led Zepplin song. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_yank](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@skeptic\_yank](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/skeptic_yank)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/32 "2008-06-19T00:45:14Z")
selected “A” pickins: adidas airplane= flying machine= fei ji alcohol= a’er ke’er amateur= ye yuai hao zhi amen= ah men amiable= ai anarchy= an na qi anchovy= an chou angel= an qi er annum, annual=nian anonymous= anang antecedent= an ti xi deng arrogant, haughty= ao arrogant person= ao man aspirin= a si pi lin attitude= tai du aunt, auntie= ayi Audi= ao di admire= aimu assinine, stupid= sha amorous, affectionate, loving= momo artillery= POW! axle= zhou ---
**Author:** ![Dragonbones](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/dragonbones/32/1125_2.png) [@Dragonbones](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Dragonbones)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/33 "2008-06-19T02:11:11Z")
Pinyin without tone marks or numerals is worthless. ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_yank](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@skeptic\_yank](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/skeptic_yank)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/34 "2008-06-19T03:27:11Z")
i’m tone deaf. quit discriminating against me. i’ve been butchering the language for well on three decades now and my pay is as good as ever. but, tone marks will be in the finished book. ---
**Author:** ![cranky\_laowai](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/fbc32d/32.png) [@cranky\_laowai](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/cranky_laowai)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:09am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/35 "2008-06-19T08:09:32Z")
> [@Dragonbones](#): > > Pinyin without tone marks or numerals is worthless. While having tone marks is generally a good thing, their absence most certainly does not make Pinyin worthless. Proper word parsing is more important still. ---
**Author:** ![bob](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@bob](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/bob)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/36 "2008-06-19T12:12:33Z")
Thanks Skeptic Yank. I went through the list and found the ones that seemed useful to me and added them to the list on the first page. Even looked up some of the tones. ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_yank](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@skeptic\_yank](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/skeptic_yank)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/37 "2008-06-19T23:55:21Z")
bob: checked your page 1 list. double check your listing for angel (an qi er) and antecedent (an ti xi deng). jia yo. baker’s dozen “b’s” for bob: beret= bei4 lei1 mao4 bungee= beng ji bumpercars= beng beng che bed pan= bian4 pen2 boundary= bian jie bottle= ping (echoic) bubble bum= pao4 pao tang2 bubble= pao4 battle= bo2 dou4 benefit= bi4 benefit=bi4yi4 bandage= bengdai bikini= bijini burst, explode= bao4 (echoic) baby, darling= bao3 bei4 ---
**Author:** ![bob](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@bob](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/bob)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/38 "2008-06-20T16:05:46Z")
> [@skeptic\_yank](#): > > bob: checked your page 1 list. double check your listing for angel (an qi er) and antecedent (an ti xi deng). jia yo. > > baker’s dozen “b’s” for bob: > > beret= bei4 lei1 mao4 > bungee= beng ji > bumpercars= beng beng che > bed pan= bian4 pen2 > boundary= bian jie > bottle= ping (echoic) > bubble bum= pao4 pao tang2 > bubble= pao4 > battle= bo2 dou4 > benefit= bi4 > benefit=bi4yi4 > bandage= bengdai > bikini= bijini > burst, explode= bao4 (echoic) > baby, darling= bao3 bei4 I liked bungee (beng4ji2) bumper car (peng4 peng4 che1) bubble bum? (pao4pao4 tang2) bandage (beng1dai4) bikini (bi3ji4ni2) burst (bao4) and baby (bao3 bei4) and so “toned” them and added them to page one. Interesting the way the transliteration, near cognate or whatever seems to cross over by way of onomatopoeia. Kind of a shared soul thing going on there I think. Gives me the warm fuzzies anyway. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Chris](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@Chris](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Chris)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/39 "2008-06-20T16:21:21Z")
pu2tao2 “grape” from old Iranian “budawa” or “badawa” Some recent borrowings: an1fei1ta1ming4 = amphetamine wei2ta1ming = vitamin Question: where does the “maling” in “malingshu” (potato) come from? ---
**Author:** ![sjcma](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@sjcma](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/sjcma)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189/40 "2008-06-20T17:59:27Z")
> [@Chris](#): > > Question: where does the “maling” in “malingshu” (potato) come from? Comes from the fact that potatoes look like sleigh bells (ma3ling2). Simple as that. [Previous page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189.md?page=1) [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/loan-words-near-cognates-transliterations-or-whatever/42189.md?page=3)