First of all want to thank everyone for a great site… Only been here for two months and this site has been a life saver… Hopefully soon once I get all of the ARC/visa/marriage/ etc… issues completed I will be able to participate more…

This is an odd question maybe… Like I said I have been here for two months, met my wife in the states, fully invested in three businesses here (in her name) that are very successful… Her father allowed us to get married on Monday for Visa purposes, but we have to have the official wedding on October of this year (fortune teller tradition) and unfortunately/fortunately her family is very successful here and has many contacts, the mayor (taipei) is actually going to do our wedding and we are going to have over 800 people attending.

The problem is due to her families status we can only have the best of weddings which I think she deserves, but since during the past two years we have invested all of our liquidity in the businesses, me coming, me not being able to work for 5 months by the time I get my ARC etc… Now since here in Taiwan it is up to the husband to pay for the wedding we have to come up with $50k US total/$10k deposit and since we do not have that much in reserves any longer we are in trouble… If we tell her father we cannot pay for the wedding, he will not talk to us anymore and I will be pretty much banned from the family.

Does anyone know of ways to get loans here through banks or other avenues?? Payback is no issue at all since the day of the wedding we will receive a ton of the great red envelopes and we receive our share of businesses’ profits in January…
Any assistance will be greatly appreciated, I have heard of investor groups that loan money… I know this issue might seem trivial to some, but trust me, if I dont come up with this money her family will probably never talk to her again if she stays with me… Took long enough to gain their trust being a caucasion American (even make me call them mom and dad now), and I am really starting to think that her family believes money grows on trees…

Please dont laugh too hard, but if you do I will laugh with you since I am amazed at the issues that keep popping up and I never thought something like this would cause such an issue… Guess just culture clash… I have came to realize Taiwan is full of wonderful little suprises!!
:s :astonished: :laughing:

50K USD is only about 1.6million NT…that’s nothing. You and the Mrs. go to the bank and ask for a loan (you do have 3 businesses). Watch them trip over themselves wanting to give you the loan. So easy…

I think the interest as around 5.8%(pardon me if I am wrong)…that’s almost free money.

Congrats on getting married.

Yes, my thoughts exactly… For some reason though my new wife states that she has already asked her bank where her (our business accounts are) and she says they said that since she has never borrowed money before she needs two guaranteers??? I really do not understand that since we have well over $50k with them, but we cannot take out since it is for the businesses… I am not sure how she is going about this??? I know in the states we would be golden and would think the same would apply here… Problem is she has never had to deal with any of these issues, loans, etc and Ive only been learning chinese for a month or so, and that takes me out of the equation since I cannot talk to them??

Any advice on what I should tell her to say to them??? Good thing is making my “want” in learning the language much greater??

Does your wife own an apartment?

No, lives with parents… and I rent… Parents are giving us an apartment once the formal wedding takes place but until then we are not allowed to live together??? Thanks for your help

So what we have here is two people with no credit history trying to borrow unsecured money. As a foreigner you don’t really count anyway, so it’s down to your wife.

Has she been working for a nice long time in a job that pays her enough to live and still make the repayments on that size of loan? New businesses are not generally considered ‘safe’ because the majority of them fail. So the bank has nothing to fall back on if the repayments on $50,000 turn out to be too big. I disagree with DB about you finding it easy. You appear to have not much going for you.

Also, and I don’t mean to be rude here, banks look for evidence of the ability to plan your finances. Are you telling me you sunk all your money into a business in someone else’s name, without keeping enough back that you can marry her to secure those investments? You did this before you even had a proper visa for Taiwan?

And if you don’t give her a big fancy wedding she’ll never speak to you again? True love!

And you’re going to repay the loan from the red envelopes? If that’s a safe deal then just explain to your father-in-law that you have sunk all your money into making his daughter rich. I’m sure he’ll pay for the wedding if you let him keep the red envelopes. Unless he decides to stop the wedding and keep your businesses, that is.

Finally me not being able to work for 5 months by the time I get my ARC etc?!?! I was at work within two days of arriving here, and that’s not unusual. If you get arrested for working illegally tomorrow, and can show that you’re legally married to a Taiwanese then you’re in the clear.

If you put your mind to it you could save 20% of what you need by October, and if you have the wherewithal to be buying businesses here you probably have good credit in the states. How much are your credit cards good for? Your own family? It’s short term, after all.

My advice is to have some family emergency that puts the wedding back until after you get your profits from your investments. Some hard work in the meantime, and help from home, will see you right.

Have you tried asking other banks? 1.6mil isn’t much and there must be a bank out there willing to loan that amount…go “bank shopping”.

Or about leveraging the loan against your businesses (is that the right terminology?)? It also sounds as if there are partners in the business…can you get them to divide up the dosh before Jan?

Does your wife have any siblings? Can they help out without dear old dad knowing?

You’re already married, but not permitted to live together?

Is it true that you are expected to pay for this wedding? My father in law paid for the banquets for my husband’s sisters including the spendy portraits and wedding cookies. I was under the impression that that is the way it works here.

I was under the impression that the bride’s family pays for the engagement banquet, while the groom’s family pays for everything else – wedding banquet, wedding cookies, the “eight gifts,” etc.
However, everything is negotiable between the families involved and such negotiations are not uncommon or considered “strange”. For example, we had no engagement banquet, my wife’s parents paid for our wedding here, I paid for wedding cookies, and my parents paid for a fine dinner and a wedding ceilidh for us in Scottieland, as well as our tickets home.
My wife’s folks, of course, got all the hongbaos.

I believe the Sandman is correct as that was what happened in my case. I also dispute the myth that you make money at a wedding. Sure people make money (photographers, restaurants, parents) but it sure ain’t the bride and groom. Most are lucky to come out even. Usually the most well-heeled are also the cheapest. Money sticks to money as the old adage goes.

PS. Love the Business and Money Forum, one of the most useful on Forumosa. Thank You.

Ok guess I will answer stragbasher first so you can see I am not as stupid as might seem

[quote]Are you telling me you sunk all your money into a business in someone else’s name, without keeping enough back that you can marry her to secure those investments? You did this before you even had a proper visa for Taiwan?

No, 5 business total, 2 in the states are in my name and 3 here are in hers for tax/business related issues and advise from our lawyers and accountants… And yes the business’s are secure, we have well over the amount needed for the wedding in accounts, but those are for the businesses and have to keep it there in case some unexpected emergency comes up like the one we just had that cost us 1mil NT… And yes I did all of this without the proper visa, since we both knew that her father was going to let us get married by ceremony in the privacy of his home knowing that we were going to have the formal wedding soon after… So that solves the VISA issue, but was not aware of the CCRD so still waiting on that… that is where the five months come from, it has already been lost once by the TECO office so had to do all over again (another topic though)… And unlike most foreigners here, I do not have a college degree so I cannot teach english… Never needed the diploma, started college at Emory University in Atlanta but also started a business at the same time and lets see pay over 20k/year to go to school or invest all my time and money in the business… Well chose the business and for sure, no doubt it was the best decision ever… College would have just got me a peice of paper stating in general I took classes that have no relevance whatsoever in want I want to do in life and the business got me to the point where I am today… No question about it, right decision…

And no I was not aware that I was going to have to pay $15k for the pics/cookies/dresses/invitations/suits that I have already forked out and then on top of that pay $800 US/table for 70 tables and that doesnt even count the extra decorations… So yes and no, I thought I had secured enough, but guess what my dumbass didnt… Please laugh with me, havent even mentioned the fortune tellers/Year of the Monkey, me being a tiger issue/her not being able to get married next year due to her being 29/Mayor Ma already scheduled to do the ceremonies… Crazy schiat I am talking about so please understand I am totally dismayed and suffering from shock at all the obstacles we have encountered… So please laugh and knock me down all you can since I deserve everybit of it… :laughing: :laughing:

No, she will, she doesnt care, her family will not talk to HER any more…

Tigerman, yes… I really needed to come over here to help since we just expanded one of the business and are already expanding the other so her father said since we are getting married anyway (been together for a long time) that we can just have the ceremony at his house JUST for VISA issues (so wont have issues staying) but she had to move back in with them so he could make sure no other marriage activities were taking place!! Catch what I am saying…

As for the brides family paying, I have know clue except for what I have been told by her and her sister (and no she cant help, just a student) that I am suppossed to pay… I wanted to ask but she said no… Her family/family friends are all unbelievable well off, owners of the some of the largest companies in Taiwan and all they know is about what they do amongst themselves and all the sons pay for the weddings and that is their tradition so I guess I have to abide… Trust me, the family is the nicest I have ever met, but its the way they do things… :s :s

Please I am serious, laugh all you want since I am laughing myself, beat me up, I am doing it myself, but I am def. in some deep schiat here and just need to know if any of you have any advise on how we can come up with some cash, what to tell the bank, which banks are more leniant than others, any help will be greatly appreciated…

And oh yeah, trust me (this is the part I do feel unbelievably fortunate about) her mom took us this weekend to show us the suprise beach apartment we are getting on that day and told us about what the grandparents are doing for us so yes we will make money on this wedding!! Sorry to brag, but just have too since some of you were questioning the red envelope issue… :laughing: :laughing:

For someone so business savvy :notworthy: it seems strange that you are having trouble coming up with a relatively small amount of cash :blush: . I only have one business but could probably do it with a couple of calls, you’ve got 5 businesses. Start thinking and stop taking no for an answer. Good luck! :rainbow:

I’m sorry but I just can’t figure this out.

How is it possible that you don’t have $50K available or even a deposit, when you have (supposedly) five successful businesses… successful businesses make money. The profits go to the owner, (Business 101), the businesses should be turning over money on a regular basis to your bank account. If that is the case, banks should be willing to lend on that basis. Also, as a business owner, aren’t you earning a salary from one or more of your businesses anyway? So how come, no cash?

I’m sorry I just think the story is most odd…


That’s one pricey wedding cw.jc. You said:

"I was not aware that I was going to have to pay $15k for the pics/cookies/dresses/invitations/suits that I have already forked out and then on top of that pay $800 US/table for 70 tables and that doesnt even count the extra decorations… "

$800/table x 70 tables = $56,000
pics/cookies/dresses etc. $15,000
extra decorations 1,000?

Total Damage: US$72,000

You should marry her at the courthouse like i did. :smiley:

If you can’t afford such a nice wedding, then don’t have such a nice wedding. Since you’re already married, who cares what her dad thinks.

Also if Mayor Ma is going to be be the master of ceremony or whatever, it is in your father-in-law’s best interests to have as nice as wedding as possible…I’m sure Dad can put a price on his “face”.

First off, congratulations on the wedding! It’s meant to be one of the happiest and unforgetable days of your life, or at least in your case, unforgetable!

I sympathize; I really do. I recently went through two wedding parties one here with her family and one back home for everyone there.

Think about it; your biggest and only problem is coming up with the deposit for the party (what was it $15K). The hotel/reception hall won’t expect you to settle the balance until a day or two after the reception and by that time all of your red envelopes will be accounted for to cover the cost.

Now, $15k is a bit of change, but not impossible to come up with. If you had a platinum card with a decent limit, you could cover most of the deposit on that and not have to worry about being billled for it until a month later; well after you have all of the money from your red envelopes in your hand.

Another option is running a line of credit through a bank back home (was it the US?) Since the businesses back there are in your name and, I assume, they are turning a profit, the bank that you do business with back home should be willing to front you such a small amount based on collateral from your business account.

Come on, be a man. Aren’t these the kind of problems people who own a business (or 5 businesses) deal with everyday?

Best of Luck,

I have to agree with earlier comments. Don’t expect to come out ahead on the red envelope money. I’ve heard that a million times myself, but usually it doesn’t cover everything. This is especially true if you have 800 people coming. That means a ton of people that don’t know you from adam. The only way they will pony up some serious dough is if they are all ‘connected’ with your father-in-law as you say, and only then if he is at the welcoming table to count and record the gifts.

I’ve also seen a lot of weddings where there’s too much expectation on the part of one or more people involved, usually NOT the couple themselves who insist that things must be a certain way. Sad to say, but these weddings tend to end up to be miserable affairs for the couple and they end up disappointing whoever it was who was so insistent anyways. This should be your day, especially if you are the one who is supposed to be paying for it. Take control and insist on what you and your lucky lady want, not what other people want.

Frankly, if your new family is putting this much pressure on you over the wedding, this is not the last thing they will want to have control over your life. What happens when the nice apartment they give you costs too much to maintain and happens to be right next door so that the in-laws are constantly over? What happens when they insist you need to spend a couple million NT to remodel and furnish the place? How much are they going to be pressuring you to have children? Will they insist that your children go to an expensive private school?

Bottom line, this is your life, and though you need to include your new relatives in it, THEY CANNOT CONTROL YOU. If they do, you’re headed for trouble big time. If you do not establish boundaries now, it will be a new thing everytime where they will be insisting on something and expect you to pony up. If you set reasonable boundaries and present it in a non-confrontational way, they may not like it, but they will probably accept it in the end. And if they don’t, you’re in for worse trouble anyways.

You’ve already said that otherwise they are nice people, so you may be very tempted to just give in on this one thing because once you are married it will all change. Except for one little thing, you already are married, and you are already financially joined at the hip with your business investments. It’s already a done deal. So why then isn’t anything different? Because they have certain ideas about the way things are and expect you to comply with them. Now go back and re-read the last couple of paragraphs. I am not exagerating here. If you let her parents control you, IT WILL NOT STOP.

Personally, my wife and I had an engagement ceremony here with banquet, plus a ceremony and reception back in the US and all told they both came out to about US$11-12k combined total. We planned things ourselves, invited who we wanted, and cut corners by not going to the bestest most elitist places. Because we kept our invitation list to a reasonable size and kept our expenses reasonable, we were able to relax and have a good time instead of constantly being on edge and worried that things would fall apart. (And by the way, the red envelope money on our Taiwan banquet only covered about 60% of our costs.)

Thanks again for all the help and Support…

As for some of your questions and yes KenTaiwan98 does sound odd, wouldnt believe it myself if it wasnt happening but guess what it is…

"How is it possible that you don’t have $50K available or even a deposit, when you have (supposedly) five successful businesses… successful businesses make money. The profits go to the owner, (Business 101), the businesses should be turning over money on a regular basis to your bank account. If that is the case, banks should be willing to lend on that basis. Also, as a business owner, aren’t you earning a salary from one or more of your businesses anyway? So how come, no cash? "

Well, really didnt feel the need to go into that much detail, but since you are questioning here it is… Yes, profit goes to the owner, but a smart owner will not eat the profits, a successful business owner at the age of 29 will turn the profits right back into the businesses or additional businesses to diversify (5 businesses at 29, dont get there by spending the profits or keeping them in a savings account) take all the risk at a young age in case something happens I have many years to recoup instead of having to go bankrupt at the age of 55 and working until I am 75… And yes I do pay myself a salary but being the type of person I am, I based my salary on th CHEAP style of life in Taipei (no need for a car, cheap housing, cheap everything), so no, the salary we pay ourselves will not cover the wedding right now…
And, yes, banks in the states would for sure loan the money based on the businesses and flow of assets in/out, but the problem is, I know nothing at all about banking over here and I do not know the language so it is almost impossible for me to do anything regarding the loan here and she knows nothing about banking except your basic accounts…

And also, just won a bid to do the interior design/furnishing for a 100 condo unit in Japan so that is why we cannot start taking out cash from the business accounts to pay for the wedding, have to keep that money there to pay the signing bonuses for two top designers from New York that we have been talking to since november since we are going to need the help for sure now.

but after reading your post Citizen K, (I thought it was a little strange when my wife (translator) told me that we have to pay up fron) I called the Grand Hyatt and asked about just a deposit and yes, all I have to pay upfront is 25% so problem is solved… Should have asked up front, but the lady we spoke to first didnt speak english so just had to go by what my wife said… Called and after just saying one time we do not have all the money the guy said 25% is fine… Guess they just say all at first so if you do they can earn interest, stupid me, all this stress and it only took a 5 minute phone call… Thanks Citizen K!! I had already started trying to book a 72 hour round trip ticket to the states to get the cash…

Problem solved!!! Time to go to the lounge and take back a few… Thanks again everyone and if any of you want to go to the wedding just send me your address, I think all that is coming from the states is my best man… so I need all I can get so at least I can say had some people attend for me???

thanks Jlick! Yes I understand what you are saying… After a little of a dispute today with my wife come to find out the reason she is not pressuring the banks is because her aunt is the president of the bank we have our accounts at and if we take a loan her father will find out and be upset…

No, he will not be upset that we need money (for the wedding yes), but he will be upset that we didnt come to him… He has already told both of us that if we need money for the contract we just got etc… to never go to banks, he says he will be very upset if we pay interest when he will loan for free, and to be honest I personally think it is mostly a pride issue on my wife’s part when it comes to asking for help with the wedding, yes I do know that everyone she associates with does things in a certain way, but I also know her father knows the amount of money we have both forked out to get where we are so I personally think that she just doesnt want to ask or tell him. I would have no problem since generally where I am from the wife’s parents pay for the wedding, but his english is very poor so I need a translator and I can only count, give time and date, and say about 40 words in chinese (only been here for a short time), and she is the only one and to be honest even if it is just pride, if it means that much to her I will go along, I will have to get it some other way… but I am in no way worried about her parents controlling us, they are great, wonderful, couldnt ask for better inlaws (known them for years now)… To be honest they I feel guilty, they assist us in so many ways, my visa issues, getting us business, if it is anything legal just call her dad and poof the issue is gone, they do everything except get involved in our matters (the wedding is different, but damn where in this world does the wife’s parents not get involved in the wedding) and will not let us do a thing for them, not even pay for dinner.

But anyways problem is solved now, I just have to hurry up and learn the language… thanks again for all the post!!!