Local musicians' fragile egos make it hard to do anything

Arts & Sciences Arts & Entertainment
#1

i feel sad because i tried really hard.

there’s a pub down here that i asked for an audition at. boss welcomed me to do 30 minutes between the house band’s two sets. i think the house band performs well for what they’re there for. they know a lot of songs and can take requests. they bring the atmosphere, and to my hearing, they play well. guitarist could play pretty good from what i could see.

i am very aware of the idea of “di pan” (territory) in taiwan. i tried as best as i could to act like the guest i was. i asked the house guitarist before going on if for my last song we could play a blues, with him soloing. i thought this was only polite- “bu yao lai ti gwan” (don’t come kick in the door of someone else’s school).

my students told me that when we finished he said something like “gan na guh lao wai”. they said he was mad because i showed him up. the guitar player asked me to solo in the middle which i didn’t think he would do. i swear: i never tried to show him up. i’ve never thought in a competitive way. i just tried to make the solo sound right.

band is mad because the boss told them she was going to fire them and let me have friday night (economics: 6 member band vs one guy with a drum machine and effect box). i only want to do my little 30 minute show, not ursurp a whole band’s gig!

now boss says she wants to put me on wed night. i know that one. nobody goes out on wed. even andy lau couldn’t pull a crowd on a wed. i don’t want to play for an empty house. so i told her i just want friday between sets and she said “okay but only twice a month”, which is fine for me.

where did i go wrong?

#2

[quote=“theposter”]where did i go wrong?[/quote]I’m not sure exactly, but I’d start looking somewhere in the vicinity of CKS International Airport.

#3

You didn’t do anything wrong. You played better than someone else. This has nothing to do with Taiwan. Jees, you think musicians don’t have fragile egos the world over?

#4

i’ve run into it, in houston a few times. i’m starting to wonder how people climb above all this. think about it: if you play too well, your peers will kill your career before you even start.

i remember in houston they had this guitar competition. i needed 100 bucks so i entered. the organizer bought me a drink afterwards and told me i would have gotten first place instead of second except nobody would enter next month’s contest if i did. pretty shitty. actually, EVERY contest i’ve been in i’ve gotten second place.

#5

Its particularly bad here in Taiwan, though. Yes, it happens in the U.S., but the reality is that it happens way, way more often here.

My attitude was simple: Wanna show me up? Practice :wink:. Otherwise STFU. It isn’t hard to show someone up when they have absolutely no skill in a notoriously difficult form like blues (the reality is that you’ve got a VERY limited range of things to express yourself with, set forms, pentatonic scale with some ways to move out of that, but its simplicity makes it really difficult).

For me, I was dragged kicking and screamin from music, and now I flat out refulse to perform in Taiwan again. Ever.

You did nothing wrong, you just proved that the other guy couldn’t play blues, AND you proved that he has the cojones of a cockroach :wink:…

#6

You’re just too good. Man, I’m glad I don’t have that problem.

#7

thanks for the remarks.
this stuff can get nasty. just like the pubs in gaoshiung people were talking about in another post. you “steal” some gangster wann-be’s girlfriend and they get 10 guys on you.

#8

while I do agree that ego issues, especially in Taiwanese guys, cause all kinds of insecurity based petty arsehole behaviour, I think that walking in to a pub and attempting to pick up the girlfriend of one of the local heavies would have emergency ward type repercussions almost anywhere in the world… :idunno:

#9

[quote=“theposter”]i feel sad because i tried really hard.

the guitar player asked me to solo in the middle which i didn’t think he would do. i swear: i never tried to show him up. i’ve never thought in a competitive way. i just tried to make the solo sound right.

[/quote]

Then why did you make it better than him?
He probably thinks you just set him up coming in all modest hangin in the back until he trusted to bring you up front and you started getting all crazy with your WaWa peddles and stuff ,revealing what you really can do.
It would be like asking some boxer if you can spar with him and then playing out like you are just a beginner,…once he lets his guard down you give him a nice left hook.

Good job anyway! :laughing:

#10

how do you NOT play your best? i can’t do anything but the best i can in any situtation. that’s what’s wrong with TW music and a lot of things. i struggle to make a decent solo. to be honest, i’d have to play like a fucking retard to not beat him. i will never do anything but my best. i really don’t care. but doing my best doesn’t mean i’m trying to show off. it means being true to yourself and what you’ve been given. i believe i owe that to God. so I can’t follow trends and i can’t play for chicks. God will take away my fingers if i do.

whole problem is the way TWese think. in my opinion, their culture makes them unsuited to be musicians, real musicians. that’s a brash statement but i want to write an essay, in fact i have written essays, on why i believe this. a lot of the words they use are unsuitable for music, ie, “territory”, “li hai” and other terms would be better used for kung fu than music.
classical musicians are the exception to this. i feel a real kinship with them.

#11

[quote]whole problem is the way TWese think. in my opinion, their culture makes them unsuited to be musicians, real musicians. that’s a brash statement but i want to write an essay, in fact i have written essays, on why i believe this. a lot of the words they use are unsuitable for music, ie, “territory”, “li hai” and other terms would be better used for kung fu than music.
classical musicians are the exception to this. i feel a real kinship with them.[/quote]

Poster, can you clarify for me if you think Taiwanese have fragile egos towards most everything or just in the music field? If it’s just the music field I couldn’t say but I though all musicians had fragile egos? If it’s regarding other aspects of life I think you’re way off base. The only fragile egos I come across in Taiwan usually are other foreigners.

#12

[quote=“theposter”]how do you NOT play your best? i can’t do anything but the best i can in any situtation. that’s what’s wrong with TW music and a lot of things. i struggle to make a decent solo. to be honest, i’d have to play like a fucking retard to not beat him. i will never do anything but my best. i really don’t care. but doing my best doesn’t mean i’m trying to show off. it means being true to yourself and what you’ve been given. i believe i owe that to God. so I can’t follow trends and i can’t play for chicks. God will take away my fingers if i do.

whole problem is the way TWese think. in my opinion, their culture makes them unsuited to be musicians, real musicians. that’s a brash statement but i want to write an essay, in fact i have written essays, on why i believe this. a lot of the words they use are unsuitable for music, ie, “territory”, “li hai” and other terms would be better used for kung fu than music.
classical musicians are the exception to this. i feel a real kinship with them.[/quote]

I didnt know Taiwan had musicians… unless you call FIR and SHE and whatever band “musicians”…

#13

[quote=“theposter”]
whole problem is the way TWese think. .[/quote]

Hi everybody. This is my first post for I just sneak around here after work.

The reason I am posting is, the quoted statement above rubbed me a little bit on the wrong side.

No offense theposter, but you might consider the possibility that it is you that think the wrong way and not the Taiwanese. In my house, you take off your shoes and in other houses you do not have to. You might think I think the wrong way because I take off my shoes and you do not (for example) but no matter what your opinion on this matter is, you will have to take off your shoes if you wish to come inside my house.

There are rules of “loosing face” and “saving face” here. Would be wise to learn and understand them.

That is all. I hope I did not offend anyone, I am just trying to say, do not expect your countries rules here. They do not exist.

#14

Can we see some of the essays??

#15

[quote=“BW”][quote=“theposter”]
whole problem is the way TWese think. .[/quote]

Hi everybody. This is my first post for I just sneak around here after work.

The reason I am posting is, the quoted statement above rubbed me a little bit on the wrong side.

No offense theposter, but you might consider the possibility that it is you that think the wrong way and not the Taiwanese. In my house, you take off your shoes and in other houses you do not have to. You might think I think the wrong way because I take off my shoes and you do not (for example) but no matter what your opinion on this matter is, you will have to take off your shoes if you wish to come inside my house.

There are rules of “losing face” and “saving face” here. Would be wise to learn and understand them.

That is all. I hope I did not offend anyone, I am just trying to say, do not expect your countries rules here. They do not exist.[/quote]

Great first post BW. :bravo: And welcome to forumosa.

theposter is STILL trying to see Taiwan through his perspective as though it were the only correct one.

Maybe this is possible too (and all speculation of course, but since theposter is speculating on why the band is mad, I will too):

Maybe the band you played behind thought you sucked. Maybe they think the only reason you’re getting their spot is because you are lily white and speak great Chinese (and this is NOT speculation as I know that you do). Maybe the laoban thinks he can get a few more patrons for the singingdancing monkey show now on Friday nights.

Maybe, just maybe, this isn’t about face or talent at all. Maybe it’s about money. Maybe the band’s anger is misplaced on theposter and belongs directly on the boss.

That is all.

#16

[quote=“BW”][quote=“theposter”]
whole problem is the way TWese think. .[/quote]

Hi everybody. This is my first post for I just sneak around here after work.

The reason I am posting is, the quoted statement above rubbed me a little bit on the wrong side.

No offense theposter, but you might consider the possibility that it is you that think the wrong way and not the Taiwanese. [/quote]
Welcome to Forumosa. Nice way to start things out.

But I think you are making things over relativistic.

I’m getting fed up with the mentality that “whatever is cool in culture X is the right thing, and your own culture is the wrong one because you are in another culture.”

No offence to you. You aren’t the only one saying this here, and it is a valid point. But it’s definitely going too far. That’s become part of the new enlightened American culture and pervades our media and philosophy.

Throw culture out the window and look at the situation we have. A guy walks in to do a gig. He’s polite and defers to the local regulars. He performs very well. Those whom he outperforms are upset and insult him. What’s the problem? Pride. Then the boss wants to replace the band with the foreigner. What’s the problem? It’s either with the boss (lack of loyalty), the band (insufficient talent), or the customers (possibly be drawn to a foreign performer over a local, without first considering talent).

There is no room here for saying the OP should have done something different or thought something different. If it were a hot looking Taiwanese girl who played well rather than an exotic foreigner, the result would have been the same.

Now, I don’t think the OP is right that it is a matter of local ego. I don’t think it has to do with their being Taiwanese. But there’s nothing wrong with the way he is thinking, and he’s not looking at this with the “wrong lenses”.

#17

[quote=“jdsmith”]
Maybe, just maybe, this isn’t about face or talent at all. Maybe it’s about money.

That is all.[/quote]

and that is the problem with the way Taiwanese think

#18

[quote=“theposter”]how do you NOT play your best? i can’t do anything but the best i can in any situtation. that’s what’s wrong with TW music and a lot of things. i struggle to make a decent solo. to be honest, i’d have to play like a fucking retard to not beat him. i will never do anything but my best. i really don’t care. but doing my best doesn’t mean i’m trying to show off. it means being true to yourself and what you’ve been given. i believe i owe that to God. so I can’t follow trends and i can’t play for chicks. God will take away my fingers if i do.

whole problem is the way TWese think. in my opinion, their culture makes them unsuited to be musicians, real musicians. that’s a brash statement but i want to write an essay, in fact i have written essays, on why i believe this. a lot of the words they use are unsuitable for music, ie, “territory”, “li hai” and other terms would be better used for kung fu than music.
classical musicians are the exception to this. i feel a real kinship with them.[/quote]

Oh, I TOTALLY agree that the culture makes them unsuited to be musicians in most cases. Back in the day, it took me almost a year to find a bass player and drummer who could play blues, the drummer was about the same vintage as me, and the bass player was 1/2 aboriginal (and a great singer). We added another guitar player who was a technical virtuoso but who could pull off the bizarre requests that a blues band got.

The wierd thing is that I recently thought about selling my custom strat, and was told by the son who is now in charge of Tony’s music that “Its a custom, no one else will know how to play it.”

Ummm. Ummm. You interpret that any way you want (he proceeded to offer me less than the price of the pickguard for an instrument that I’ve got a couple grand into).

And no. He ain’t for sale anymore. I may not ever perform again, but…ermm…once I got ‘im home, I realized how much of an idiot I was being even THINKING about sellin’ 'im…

#19

[quote=“BW”][quote=“theposter”]
whole problem is the way TWese think. .[/quote]

Hi everybody. This is my first post for I just sneak around here after work.

The reason I am posting is, the quoted statement above rubbed me a little bit on the wrong side.

No offense theposter, but you might consider the possibility that it is you that think the wrong way and not the Taiwanese. In my house, you take off your shoes and in other houses you do not have to. You might think I think the wrong way because I take off my shoes and you do not (for example) but no matter what your opinion on this matter is, you will have to take off your shoes if you wish to come inside my house.

There are rules of “losing face” and “saving face” here. Would be wise to learn and understand them.

That is all. I hope I did not offend anyone, I am just trying to say, do not expect your countries rules here. They do not exist.[/quote]

This analogy doesn’t fly. You have a Taiwanese band trying to do a knockoff of a foreign musical style, and when blown away by a foreign musician, the other guitar player is pissed??

Come on, based on that logic I should be able to buy an Er-Hu and within 3 years be the best Er-Hu player on the island.

#20

[quote=“Tyc00n”][quote=“jdsmith”]
Maybe, just maybe, this isn’t about face or talent at all. Maybe it’s about money.

That is all.[/quote]

and that is the problem with the way Taiwanese think[/quote]

Why is that? The owner has a business. The business supports himself, his family and all of his employees.

Hiring someone who puts more butts in the chairs is good business.