Lord Monckton, Viscount of Brenchley, on "Global Warming"

[quote=“fred smith”]Juba:

Haha not in the loop are we? Time to look around at some of the key foundations and UN organizations along with executive directors of major enviornmental NGOs. You might be surprised. I would say $80,000/year is quite at the lower limit. If you had an MBA, you might be able to apply for just such a job. In the meantime, back to the volunteer grunt work for you. Be a shame to ponder where all that money is going though eh? hahaha[/quote]

And shouldn’t they be paying top dollar? They’re hardly going to attract anyone competent by paying lower are they…

Not my point. I pointed out that many of them are highly paid and are not always selfless. This is a Career for them and as such they are out to milk their opportunities. My point is that these are not some underpaid do-gooders with no vested interests whatsoever. Juba seemed to think otherwise but now that I have offered specific evidence regarding these salaries, he has gone rather silent… strange… haha

Again, people remember that just because these organizations may be “good causes” does not mean that professionals in the PR, advertising and NGO circuit are not out to get ahead. I know a lot of people who have moved from private industry to NGOs to UN to government service and back again. They are professionals. They know what they need to do to sell their message to “deliver” success that results in pay raises and bonuses. They may hype a cereal or a brand of toilet paper in the private sector, and it ain’t that much different to hype “global warming” and “starvation in Africa” as a media campaign in the NGO sector. Nothing wrong with that but then don’t tell me that they ain’t getting paid well and that there are no underlying vested interests on their side that absolve them from proving their points because they are “good.” Contrast this with the supposedly very different “corporate interests” that are “buying off” scientists and such which are (come along and sing it with me you know the words) “bad.” haha

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]CFI -
And there are a lot of people who are saying that the “science” used in the promotion of the ‘Global Warming’ issue is incorrect, not substantiated, incomplete or even non-existent in some cases.
Add to this the growing amount of harassment of scientists who have come out urging caution and stronger review of the “pro-global warming” issue and you have a multi-layered case for proceeding with due caution. [/quote]

Did it ever occur to you that the situation is enormously complicated and that by the time “absolutely conclusive” evidence is in it will be too late to do anything about it?

Did it ever occur to you that there is in fact mountains of evidence supporting the view that the earth is already warming, and further, that CO2 emmissions are to blame?

Did it ever occur to you that with the increases in CO2 emmissions that the world is expected to see over the next fifty years the situation is likely to get much much worse?

Did it ever occur to you that what you are actually doing by throwing out this propoganada disguised as science you are actually just confusing an issue that is begging for a little clarity?

Yes, I imagine these things did occur to you. You are not interested in science. You are interested in promoting more of the same kind of development that got us in the situationwe are in now. Gee, I wonder why you would do that?

Oh but fred they did prove their points. They showed us pictures from space of the melting arctic, and they counted the number of coral reefs that have died, and calculated the amount of CO2 being released into the atmosphere and all kinds of other stuff mentioned in the other global warming threads - perhaps you recall. Anyway, thanks for that bit of above People making a carreer out science and political action. Wow. And here silly me thought these people were working for nothing…

“The ‘global warming is happening and human activity is contributing to it’ people have proved their point by providing solid scientific evidence for their position. The other side has not.”

If that is your point (as the above post suggests) then I agree with you that whether ‘global warming is happening’ NGOs are making money by getting out the message is irrelevant.

My impression is that Fred was responding to an argument that he perceived to be “Certain corporations have a financial interest in making people believe that global warming is bogus – so you can’t trust what they say.” If this is the argument, then it seems quite appropriate to point out that certain NGOs (and individuals employed by them) have a financial interest in making people believe that global warming is real.

So by all means let the debate focus on the evidence presented. But if the “Well ‘they’ would say that wouldn’t they – that’s how they make their money” argument is raised, then it should not come as a surprise when it is pointed out that both sides profit financially by making sure people believe their side of the argument. :idunno:

[quote=“Hobbes”] My impression is that Fred was responding to an argument that he perceived to be “Certain corporations have a financial interest in making people believe that global warming is bogus – so you can’t trust what they say.” If this is the argument, then it seems quite appropriate to point out that certain NGOs (and individuals employed by them) have a financial interest in making people believe that global warming is real.

So by all means let the debate focus on the evidence presented. But if the “Well ‘they’ would say that wouldn’t they – that’s how they make their money” argument is raised, then it should not come as a surprise when it is pointed out that both sides profit financially by making sure people believe their side of the argument. :idunno:[/quote]

It’s a valid point, it just isn’t news to me and I am suprised it would be news to anybody else either.

Imagine that two contractors are competing for, say, a contract to build a flood protection system. Imagine further that they propose entirely different plans. One side suggests one thing the other something else, I know fuck all about flood control systems. Anyway, after a lot of research and study and discussion it becomes obvious that the contractors whose plan was accepted has actually made a plan for disaster. Despite this the contractor hires more and more “experts” to support his ideas even though nearly every scrap of evidence suggests his ideas are wrong. At some point the contractor needs to be called on his bullshit right?

Why stop there?

Narcissism. You were right all along. I am right about everything else of course so it balances out in the end I suppose, this dialectic we have going. I would let you win one of these days just to see what would happen, but I’m afraid that what would happen would be that the earth would open up and swallow us whole.

And thus the dialectic comes to a grandiose finish with the admission by Bob that he was a Fraud all along (get that last part… along…)

Not really. Is that another stunning anachronism I wonder? Anyway, the commas were a good idea I’ll admit. Thanks. I’ll run along now if you don’t mind.

Plus ca change, eh? plus c’est la meme chose…

[quote]
JewishWorldReview.com | Remember The Twilight Zone? Back in 1961, Rod Serling wrote an episode that was set in New York City amid rampant global warming. Somehow the Earth’s orbit had shifted, and the planet was moving inexorably toward the sun. “This is the eve of the end,” Serling intoned in his introduction. “Because even at midnight it’s high noon, the hottest day in history, and you’re about to spend it — in the Twilight Zone.” The story revolves around a few desperate New Yorkers struggling to survive the murderous heat. As the temperature climbs, social order crumbles. An intruder, crazed with thirst, breaks into an apartment to steal water. An elderly woman collapses and dies. Thermometers shatter, their mercury boiling over. Finally Norma, the main character, screams and passes out. Then comes the “Twilight Zone” twist: Norma wakes up to find that it’s snowing outside. She’d been having a nightmare. The Earth isn’t hurtling toward the sun, after all; it’s spinning away from the sun. The world isn’t going to end in searing heat, but in a dark and deathly deep-freeze. Fade to credits.

Well, that’s climate change for you. Maybe Mother Earth is warming up, or maybe she’s cooling down, but either way it’s always bad news. Here, for example, is former vice president Al Gore in 2006, on the threat posed by global warming: “Our ability to live is what is at stake.” It doesn’t get much more dire than that. Yet here is climatologist Reid Bryson, in Fortune magazine’s award-winning analysis of global cooling in 1974: “There is very important climatic change going on right now, and it’s not merely something of academic interest. . . . It is something that, if it continues, will affect the whole human occupation of the earth — like a billion people starving.” It doesn’t get much more dire than that, either. Bryson’s article is quoted in “Fire and Ice,” a richly documented report by the Business & Media Institute, an arm of the Media Research Center. Climate-change alarmism, the report shows, is at least a century old. A few examples:

“Geologists Think the World May Be Frozen Up Again,” asserted a New York Times headline in February 1895.

Worrisome if true, but just seven years later, the Los Angeles Times reported that the great glaciers were undergoing “their final annihilation” due to rising temperatures worldwide.

By 1923, though, it was the ice that was doing the annihilating: “Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada,” the Chicago Tribune declared on Page 1. So it was curtains for the Canadians? Er, not quite.

In 1953, The New York Times reported that “nearly all the great ice sheets are in retreat.” Yet no sooner did our neighbors to the north breathe a sigh of relief than it turned out they weren’t off the hook after all:

“The rapid advance of some glaciers,” wrote Lowell Ponte in The Cooling, his 1976 bestseller, “has threatened human settlements in Alaska, Iceland, Canada, China, and the Soviet Union.” And now?

“Arctic Ice Is Melting at Record Level, Scientists Say,” the Times reported in 2002.

Over the years, the alarmists have veered from an obsession with lethal global cooling around the turn of the 20th century to lethal global warming a generation later, back to cooling in the 1970s and now to warming once again. You don’t have to be a scientist to realize that all these competing narratives of doom can’t be true. Or to wonder whether any of them are. Perhaps that is why most Americans discount the climate-change fear-mongering that is so fashionable among journalists and politicians. Last spring, as Time magazine was hyperventilating about global warming (“The debate is over. Global warming is upon us — with a vengeance. From floods to fires, droughts to storms, the climate is crashing”), a Gallup poll was finding that only 36 percent of the public say they worry “a great deal” about it.

Still, there is always a market for apocalyptic forebodings. Paul Ehrlich grew rich writing jeremiads with such titles as The Population Explosion and The Population Bomb, which predicted the imminent deaths of hundreds of millions of human beings from starvation and epidemic disease. The Limits to Growth, the Club of Rome’s 1972 bestseller, warned that humankind was going to experience “a rather sudden and uncontrollable decline” as the world’s resources — everything from gold to petroleum — ran dry. Jonathan Schell and Carl Sagan forecast a devastating “nuclear winter” unless atomic arsenals were frozen, or better still, abolished. Those doomsday prophesies never came to pass. Neither have the climate-change catastrophes that have been bruited about for a century.

“The whole aim of practical politics,” wrote H.L. Mencken, “is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” Mencken was writing in 1920, but some things never change. [/quote]

jewishworldreview.com/jeff/jacoby122606.php3

[quote=“fred smith”]Plus ca change, eh? plus c’est la meme chose…

[quote]
JewishWorldReview.com | Remember The Twilight Zone? Back in 1961, Rod Serling wrote an episode that was set in New York City amid rampant global warming. Somehow the Earth’s orbit had shifted, and the planet was moving inexorably toward the sun. “This is the eve of the end,” Serling intoned in his introduction. “Because even at midnight it’s high noon, the hottest day in history, and you’re about to spend it — in the Twilight Zone.” The story revolves around a few desperate New Yorkers struggling to survive the murderous heat. As the temperature climbs, social order crumbles. An intruder, crazed with thirst, breaks into an apartment to steal water. An elderly woman collapses and dies. Thermometers shatter, their mercury boiling over. Finally Norma, the main character, screams and passes out. Then comes the “Twilight Zone” twist: Norma wakes up to find that it’s snowing outside. She’d been having a nightmare. The Earth isn’t hurtling toward the sun, after all; it’s spinning away from the sun. The world isn’t going to end in searing heat, but in a dark and deathly deep-freeze. Fade to credits.

Well, that’s climate change for you. Maybe Mother Earth is warming up, or maybe she’s cooling down, but either way it’s always bad news. Here, for example, is former vice president Al Gore in 2006, on the threat posed by global warming: “Our ability to live is what is at stake.” It doesn’t get much more dire than that. Yet here is climatologist Reid Bryson, in Fortune magazine’s award-winning analysis of global cooling in 1974: “There is very important climatic change going on right now, and it’s not merely something of academic interest. . . . It is something that, if it continues, will affect the whole human occupation of the earth — like a billion people starving.” It doesn’t get much more dire than that, either. Bryson’s article is quoted in “Fire and Ice,” a richly documented report by the Business & Media Institute, an arm of the Media Research Center. Climate-change alarmism, the report shows, is at least a century old. A few examples:

“Geologists Think the World May Be Frozen Up Again,” asserted a New York Times headline in February 1895.

Worrisome if true, but just seven years later, the Los Angeles Times reported that the great glaciers were undergoing “their final annihilation” due to rising temperatures worldwide.

By 1923, though, it was the ice that was doing the annihilating: “Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada,” the Chicago Tribune declared on Page 1. So it was curtains for the Canadians? Er, not quite.

In 1953, The New York Times reported that “nearly all the great ice sheets are in retreat.” Yet no sooner did our neighbors to the north breathe a sigh of relief than it turned out they weren’t off the hook after all:

“The rapid advance of some glaciers,” wrote Lowell Ponte in The Cooling, his 1976 bestseller, “has threatened human settlements in Alaska, Iceland, Canada, China, and the Soviet Union.” And now?

“Arctic Ice Is Melting at Record Level, Scientists Say,” the Times reported in 2002.

Over the years, the alarmists have veered from an obsession with lethal global cooling around the turn of the 20th century to lethal global warming a generation later, back to cooling in the 1970s and now to warming once again. You don’t have to be a scientist to realize that all these competing narratives of doom can’t be true. Or to wonder whether any of them are. Perhaps that is why most Americans discount the climate-change fear-mongering that is so fashionable among journalists and politicians. Last spring, as Time magazine was hyperventilating about global warming (“The debate is over. Global warming is upon us — with a vengeance. From floods to fires, droughts to storms, the climate is crashing”), a Gallup poll was finding that only 36 percent of the public say they worry “a great deal” about it.

Still, there is always a market for apocalyptic forebodings. Paul Ehrlich grew rich writing jeremiads with such titles as The Population Explosion and The Population Bomb, which predicted the imminent deaths of hundreds of millions of human beings from starvation and epidemic disease. The Limits to Growth, the Club of Rome’s 1972 bestseller, warned that humankind was going to experience “a rather sudden and uncontrollable decline” as the world’s resources — everything from gold to petroleum — ran dry. Jonathan Schell and Carl Sagan forecast a devastating “nuclear winter” unless atomic arsenals were frozen, or better still, abolished. Those doomsday prophesies never came to pass. Neither have the climate-change catastrophes that have been bruited about for a century.

“The whole aim of practical politics,” wrote H.L. Mencken, “is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” Mencken was writing in 1920, but some things never change. [/quote]

jewishworldreview.com/jeff/jacoby122606.php3[/quote]

Quite Fred. However there was no Google in 1895. Also, there have been significant advances in science recently and scenarios can be ‘predicted’ with a greater degree of credibility. Or perhaps you don’t like science because you prefer to put your faith in God rather than clear-cut evidence? Tell us what happens on the 8th Day Fred or didn’t your deity get that far?

BroonApocalypse

[quote=“bob”][quote=“TainanCowboy”]CFI -
And there are a lot of people who are saying that the “science” used in the promotion of the ‘Global Warming’ issue is incorrect, not substantiated, incomplete or even non-existent in some cases.
Add to this the growing amount of harassment of scientists who have come out urging caution and stronger review of the “pro-global warming” issue and you have a multi-layered case for proceeding with due caution. [/quote]

Did it ever occur to you that the situation is enormously complicated and that by the time “absolutely conclusive” evidence is in it will be too late to do anything about it?

Did it ever occur to you that there is in fact mountains of evidence supporting the view that the earth is already warming, and further, that CO2 emmissions are to blame?

Did it ever occur to you that with the increases in CO2 emmissions that the world is expected to see over the next fifty years the situation is likely to get much much worse?

Did it ever occur to you that what you are actually doing by throwing out this propoganada disguised as science you are actually just confusing an issue that is begging for a little clarity?

Yes, I imagine these things did occur to you. You are not interested in science. You are interested in promoting more of the same kind of development that got us in the situationwe are in now. Gee, I wonder why you would do that?[/quote]Hey Bob -
Do you ever read a fckin thing before you post?
Look pisswad, I have been suggesting doing exactly what you so pompously have posted the entire f
cking time.
Crawl back inside your bottle and read before you post.

[quote=“TainanCowboy”] Hey Bob -
Do you ever read a fckin thing before you post?
Look pisswad, I have been suggesting doing exactly what you so pompously have posted the entire f
cking time. [/quote]

Look pisswad you have been suggesting doing exactly what I have so pompously posted the whole time? What did you suggest? What did I post? Can you make any kind of sense at all? Just curious.

where?

What’s that?

Huh?

What!

What!

What!

Just?

about What! or about what? what? What!

I dunno. When have TC and I ever agreed on anything? I thought you phrased it swimmingly the other night, “Whatever you want, I want the opposite.” Except in the case of TC and I it is “Whatever TC thinks, I think the opposite.” It works well as a general policy, and I remain suspicious of any attempts to alter the status quo.

I do know. You are altering the status quo by agreeing with me even without doing so intentionally. THIS will destabilize the very forces of the universe. You must desist, rephrase and do so in an insulting fashion or the very galaxy and its future are at stake.

Erps you are right, er, no you are not. Anyway, you know what I mean, fuck you.