Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but does anyone think Ma could be the one to lead Taiwan to independence?
I’m sure there are historical precedents for a party/state “insider” to overturn the system - and for that matter, an outsider to lead a nation to independence. Radicals start debates. A moderate conservative has a greater chance of taking everyone along with him.
Correct me if I’m wrong (I’ve never studied this at all) but didn’t most of the American revolutionaries start off loyal to the crown but were radicalised by George III being a twat? Likewise, many Irish nationalists were only after self rule within the United Kingdom until the British denied it them!
Again, my knowledge is sketchy, but the English parliamentarians in the Civil War were hardly radical republicans - they only killed the king when pushed.
Beijing seems well capable of doing the wrong thing and if they do act like twats, which way would President Ma swing - roll over or stand up?
It seems Ma’s current position of “eventual” reunification whilst rejecting one country, two systems allows him plenty of leeway to give up on China later - rather like Michael Heseltine’s 1990 statement “I cannot foresee the circumstances in which I would challenge Margaret Thatcher”. One week later “circumstances” had changed and he brought about her downfall.
As much as I’d like to hear people in the future say “Only Nixon could go to China, and only Ma could tell China to fuck off,” I doubt that Ma would ever go in that direction. Like you say, it would take quite a lot of agitating from Beijing. As much as they seem to push things to the limit, I don’t think they’re that dumb. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong, though.
Sure, all those in favour of unification move the China , and those in favour of independence stay in Taiwan.
And all those in the Asian political groups int he USA stay pu in Queens. [/quote]
Problem: Then 3.7 million people out of the 23 million would then have to move (16% approximation). Not very practical as many will prefer to stay…
Solution: Instead of forcing them to move, just revoke their ROC status and confiscate their passports. They are then free to apply for PRC citizenship.
Sure, all those in favour of unification move the China , and those in favour of independence stay in Taiwan.
And all those in the Asian political groups in the USA stay put in Queens. [/quote]
Problem: Then 3.7 million people out of the 23 million would then have to move (16% approximation). Not very practical as many will prefer to stay…
Solution: Instead of forcing them to move, just revoke their ROC status and confiscate their passports. They are then free to apply for PRC citizenship. .[/quote]
Planes and ships can take care of the moving problem… ROC citizens can in fact apply for PRC citizenship… just move over and live there for awhile…
In anycase if they prefer to stay then they will agree with the ROC being independent.
I think AC would like to do that,… but he values his US passport too much…
But wasn’t there another post that said a nation is able to revoke the citizenships of its people like Hong Kong? I don’t know if Ma would go so far. But on the other hand he’s short tempered and thus easy to handle (remember he shouted at the reporters, he could’ve said it nicely).
But its only 16%… force it. heh- watch more than half of them re-apply for a ROC citizenship.
It’s kind of annoying when people jump to conclusions about Ma before he’s even had a chance to do anything. He’s just been sworn in as party chairman, is still trying to consolidate his power (he has to “tow the party line” in some respects, even if only in word, in order to do this), and this is the first time he’s in a position of power where he can really exert some influence. Give the guy a break and just wait and see what he will do. Jeez …
As for Lee Teng-hui … he only cares about one thing … and that’s Lee Teng-hui.
[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”]
As for Lee Teng-hui … he only cares about one thing … and that’s Lee Teng-hui.[/quote]Say what you like about LTH… and then thank him for leaving a system which allows you to say what you like. :raspberry:
[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”]
As for Lee Teng-hui … he only cares about one thing … and that’s Lee Teng-hui.[/quote]Say what you like about LTH… and then thank him for leaving a system which allows you to say what you like. :raspberry:[/quote]
I don’t believe that it was LTH who did that … it was the Americans who gave CCK an ultimatum to end martial law and democratize. LTH is no saint.
[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”]
I don’t believe that it was LTH who did that … it was the Americans who gave CCK an ultimatum to end martial law and democratize. LTH is no saint.[/quote]You think you’d be running your mouth off about whoever you feel like if any other of the usual suspects at that time had gotten the job of Chairman?
I really don’t think so.
Saint? Maybe not, but I can’t think of anyone else who was in the running at time who would have seen Taiwan through those times with as much aplomb, or had the cojones to stand up to China as he did.
[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”]this is the first time he’s in a position of power where he can really exert some influence. Give the guy a break and just wait and see what he will do. Jeez … [/quote]This is utter crap and you know it. As Taipei mayor he’s been in the position twice now to make a stand against the hardliners, and failed miserably.
Rioting in Taipei after CSB’s first election victory.
Rioting in Taipei after CSB’s second election victory.
The first time he came out with some weak-kneed plea for calm and ran like hell when shouted down.
The second occasion he basically hid behind Lien Chan’s coattails and said nothing.
You think he’s going to stand up to China if he couldn’t stand up to a bunch of geriatric thugs with the whole of Taipei’s police force at his disposal? :loco:
Enough dragging LTH into this. I expect better from you than AC_dropout tactics.
Ironic then that many in the PFP dislike Ma because of his actions during the riots, i.e. trying to quiet them down and in general not supporting them as they thought he should.
