I was offered this yesterday…is it any good?
[quote=“StreetSpec”]I was offered this yesterday…is it any good?
tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction … ededog1688[/quote]
NO!
Spring helpers are a bad idea. What they do is transfer much of the spring’s overall rate to just a portion of the coils, stiffening the effective rate of the area where they installed by a large margin and the other area by a smaller amount. That sounds like a good idea but you introduce stresses in the unsupported coils which they aren’t designed for, which can lead to failure. You will also find a non-linear shift in the overall spring rate as the struts compress and rebound, similar to the way the spring rate changes when you get close to bump stroke limit and hit the bump stop. Strange things happen. You can lose steering response for a moment or have the car dart off in some unexpected direction. Given how poorly made and maintained the roads are here, you will experience this often.
What is wrong with your suspension that you hope to fix in this way?
my suspension is too soft, too much body roll some times I feel I want to puke …So I went for a wheel alignment and asked the boss about changing the suspension and he told me just use that one, it will reduce the body roll and lots of taxi driver use it…of course I dont believe him so I said I’ll think about it and do some research…
btw rw, the adjustable function on koni sport, is that any good or just give me trouble like leaking, etc?..should I just go with the non-adjustable like KYB new SR?
my suspension is too soft, too much body roll some times I feel I want to puke …So I went for a wheel alignment and asked the boss about changing the suspension and he told me just use that one, it will reduce the body roll and lots of taxi driver use it…of course I don’t believe him so I said I’ll think about it and do some research…
btw rw, the adjustable function on koni sport, is that any good or just give me trouble like leaking, etc?..should I just go with the non-adjustable like KYB new SR?[/quote]
Taxi drivers use that method perhaps because they are often very cheap and only think short term. They don’t always care about the long term effects to their vehicles, which also happens to be why nobody would ever consider a used taxi unless they were desperate. When you cause a shortening of the effective suspension travel then you are going to more frequently impact the vehicle’s chassis and other components which suffer stresses relating to impact and vibration. I would say that a general rule of driving and maintenance is if a taxi driver does it, then you shouldn’t consider it. They also drive around with their bonnets on the catch, their lights off at night. They sometimes switch their wheel rims and tyres for smaller ones which helps rack up their distance charges. They often install the cheapest components and rarely ever change anything when it immediately requires replacement. I wouldn’t consider the actions of any taxi driver as good advice.
You don’t need adjustable shocks. You may simply require a new set of OEMs. Have you had your shocks checked? If you want I can arrange to check them out for you if you like and you can then consider your options. Another thing to check frequently on The Focus (correct me if I’m thinking of the wrong car) is the anti roll bar links and bushings. These fail early on these vehicles and can also cause excessive roll. There are so many other bushings on that car too which must be checked freuently.
[quote=“StreetSpec”]
my suspension is too soft, too much body roll some times I feel I want to puke …So I went for a wheel alignment and asked the boss about changing the suspension and he told me just use that one, it will reduce the body roll and lots of taxi driver use it…of course I don’t believe him so I said I’ll think about it and do some research…[/quote]
The fact that cabbies do this should already have you running in the opposite direction. If your ‘mechanic’ is suggesting shit like this… well let’s just say that the Ah Huang is strong in this one.
First you want to find out if your shocks are done. Push down on each corner of the car with all your weight and watch what happens. You should see the car pop back up, overshoot the rest position, drop past the rest position again on the way down and then settle right back where it was. Any oscillation beyond that says your shocks are pooped. Dampers are supposed to do what the name suggests. They are designed to work with the force of a given range of springs. Putting a much harder spring on a given damper will give it a job it cannot do, and you have basically no damping. So, putting hard springs (or spring helpers) onto healthy shocks gives a result like a blown shock on a stock spring. You might reduce body roll in corners but you will get side-effects like bump-steer and ‘pogoing’ or ‘ricer bounce’… that nasty waterbed wallowing over undulating surfaces.
If you have a lot of body roll in corners the way to approach that is stiffer springs. Stiffer springs need firmer dampers to match. Be very careful selecting aftermarket springs as most of them are much shorter than stock for the ‘slammed’ look the ricers like, but have softer rates to keep the car somewhat comfortable. What you end up with is a low car that looks cool, handles like shit and scrapes on everything.
If you tell me what car we are talking about here I might be able to give you some recommendations.
Next, look at the swaybars. If your car has skinny bars and you are going to harder springs you may want to uprate the bars slightly to match the new springs. A suspension system is so named for a reason. It’s a system of parts which need to work together in concert. Randomly changing one part or another usually doesn’t get the best results and can end up in a dangerous car.
[quote=“StreetSpec”]
btw rw, the adjustable function on koni sport, is that any good or just give me trouble like leaking, etc?..should I just go with the non-adjustable like KYB new SR?[/quote]
I’m am shopping for Konis for my car right now, though I’ve never owned a set before. Being adjustable doesn’t make a shock unreliable. I put KYB AGX (adjustable) dampers on my old GF Impreza and they are still going strong five years and two owners later. Unless you want to go much lower or much stiffer on springs the SR units will be plenty. For mild springs the Excels will also be fine. When you see the price the Konis go for here vs. (say) the US, I think you’ll go with the KYB! 
that’s what I thought too
yes twice at toyota dealer…they said no leaking, no problem…do u know any other place to check the suspension?..btw, my car is still under warranty
It’s a 6th gen white camry. You helped me check the car remember? 
[quote=“redwagon”]Be very careful selecting aftermarket springs as most of them are much shorter than stock for the ‘slammed’ look the ricers like, but have softer rates to keep the car somewhat comfortable. What you end up with is a low car that looks cool, handles like shit and scrapes on everything.
If you tell me what car we are talking about here I might be able to give you some recommendations.[/quote]
no, I dont want to lower my car, just want to make it stiffer, less body roll and bouncy…the car is 6th gen camry btw
yeah, for koni sport package adjustable, one shop quote me $33k including sturts, springs and installation…$27k if without spring…KYB new SR is about $3000 less…not that much different so which one would u choose? …
[quote=“StreetSpec”][quote=“redwagon”]Be very careful selecting aftermarket springs as most of them are much shorter than stock for the ‘slammed’ look the ricers like, but have softer rates to keep the car somewhat comfortable. What you end up with is a low car that looks cool, handles like shit and scrapes on everything.
If you tell me what car we are talking about here I might be able to give you some recommendations.[/quote]
no, I don’t want to lower my car, just want to make it stiffer, less body roll and bouncy…the car is 6th gen camry btw
yeah, for koni sport package adjustable, one shop quote me $33k including sturts, springs and installation…$27k if without spring…KYB new SR is about $3000 less…not that much different so which one would u choose? …[/quote]
For 3k I would step up to the Konis. Koni is imported officially by the same company that imports Vogtland springs. They are good springs (quality) but check carefully the data. I had a set on my old Impreza and half my teeth fell out. Seriously. It was a great setup if I drove flat out all the time, but if I tried to cruise on them I’d get out of the car an inch shorter. They may different products available but the ricers here almost always go for the full race version of anything. Go no lower than 20mm below stock height and spring rates want to be no more than 30% higher. Vogtland is one of those ‘black box’ companies that will not divulge spring rates. They wouldn’t even tell me the rates on my GC8 springs which they had stopped making. :raspberry:
I would let Sulavaca have a look at the car for you to see if it’s just built-in factory wallow or if something is loose / worn / broken down there. My experience with dealers is that everything is normal as long as the car is in warranty. 
true but they did replace both my front disc brake once after I complain…
one more Q, what about koni or new SR with stock spring setup?..any good?..I want stiffer ride but dont want to give up too much of ride quality…somewhere near the new accord handling / ride quality is what I’m hoping for…and yeah, I’m also considering that option too but too much money involved 
Oh, yes of course! I knew that 
Getting my usernames mixed up I am.
So of course your suspension is still probably very new. The thing is with that car, its quite a heavy vehicle which is mainly designed for cruising and not for cornering flatly.
You could stiffen the suspension slightly with adjustables or a combination of slightly stiffer springs. The fact is however that it will then transfer more loading to the steering components, brakes and tyres which are high profile and you will notice these components don’t perform as they did with the softer suspension. Once you affect one thing on that car, the list doesn’t usually end. At the moment the car is likely driving at its predetermined limit. I have seen my fair share of Toyotas and Nissans which have been modified and it is so far my advice to keep it as stock as possible. I think I have said this before about the newer Camry. It isn’t meant to go as quickly as it looks. I believe the practical engine limit for the Camry is the 2.0 which doesn’t provide too much power that the rest of the car can’t handle. Its a bit of an awkward setup as it does go quicker than the last generation, but doesn’t offer an adequate suspension, steering and brakes system to cope with quicker driving.
Try pumping your tyres up a bit 
I think otherwise you might be in for some experimentation. Of course if experimentation is the way to go then I would recommend a softer shock such as the ones you have but with a stiffer adjustment limit. You definately want to stay well clear of anything hard with that car.
Something simpler is to change the suspension rubbers to some slightly stiffer ones, which may also help to eliminate some of the give you are experiencing without having a huge adverse affect to the rest of the system. A lot of the give felt in larger saloon cars is often the rubber components, including tyres, which offer a more luxurious albeit slacker ride at speed.
Edit: You won’t get the Accord handling in the Camry as it is heavier, taller and doesn’t share the same multilink suspension design. You also won’t get the higher level of road noise found in the Accord as the Camry’s weight contains quite a lot of soundproofing. Although the two cars may seem similar on the outside and even in the cabin to some degree, their designs are meant for different purposes, namely the Accord to save fuel and offer better performance steering and suspension. The Camry for simplicity-reliability, luxury to a degree and quality. Unfortunately the simplistic part of Toyota is its boring part.
Yep. 2nd what Sulavaca is saying… the Camry wasn’t supposed to be tossed around like that. You may be in the wrong car. Check out www.whiteline.com.au for stiffer bushings and mounts. You could also trying going to tires with stiffer sidewalls that don’t roll over so easily, but then again they are often the stickier tires and they will encourage you into even faster cornering which makes the rolling worse… This sort of thing can easily develop into an out of control spiral:
You use stickier tires and the roll gets worse. You go up to stiffer springs and you need stiffer struts. You have that sorted and then you notice all this undamped movement from the soft rubber OEM suspension bushings. You swap those for urethane items and start driving harder until you really notice the understeer. To fix that you fit heavier swaybars to improve front tire bite, change the grip balance front to rear and dial out that last bit of body roll. Now you notice how much the powertrain moves around as you modulate the throttle because everything else is tight, so you fit stiffer engine / trans mounts. Suddenly your wife / gf doesn’t want to ride with you anymore because the bouncing makes her boobs hurt, the speed you corner at makes her seasick and conversation is impossible over all the road noise those urethane mounts pass into the cabin.
You decide to get another, more comfortable car with better WAF (wife approval factor). You get your new car but after a week decide the traction isn’t so great and you miss those sticky tires…
[quote=“redwagon”]Yep. 2nd what Sulavaca is saying… the Camry wasn’t supposed to be tossed around like that. You may be in the wrong car. Check out whiteline.com.au for stiffer bushings and mounts. You could also trying going to tires with stiffer sidewalls that don’t roll over so easily, but then again they are often the stickier tires and they will encourage you into even faster cornering which makes the rolling worse… This sort of thing can easily develop into an out of control spiral:
You use stickier tires and the roll gets worse. You go up to stiffer springs and you need stiffer struts. You have that sorted and then you notice all this undamped movement from the soft rubber OEM suspension bushings. You swap those for urethane items and start driving harder until you really notice the understeer. To fix that you fit heavier swaybars to improve front tire bite, change the grip balance front to rear and dial out that last bit of body roll. Now you notice how much the powertrain moves around as you modulate the throttle because everything else is tight, so you fit stiffer engine / trans mounts.[/quote]
and the next thing u know, u are racing at JTCC
anyway RW & Sulavaca, all great advises, thanks…I’ll think about it…
changing car is the last thing I want to do but still an option…it’s just that after almost a year driving this car, I still can’t get used to it (I keep comparing it with that damn golf 
)…I’m quite happy with the car but if I can tweak the car a bit so that it can handle “a bit” better, I’ll be a happier man 
[quote=“StreetSpec”]
anyway RW & Sulavaca, all great advises, thanks…I’ll think about it…
changing car is the last thing I want to do but still an option…[/quote]
If you want both the practicality of the Golf’s size, yet the reliability of the Toyota, plus superb performance then get a Subaru. If you don’t want to up the budget however, then I would sugest a great handling Mazda, but it will lose out in the reliability. Not terribly, but it must be considered.
I’ve raved a bit about Mazda. I think it happens to be a decent drive and offers good practicality for the money.
well if I really go that road, the new accord is my no 1 choice…I heard mazda 6 is very stiff although I haven’t test driven it yet but the new latest one get 17" rims instead of 18" so probably a bit softer…but yeah, I’ll consider it too, tks for bring it up
I love that new subaru legacy 2.5T but it’s just out of my budget 
…
well if I really go that road, the new accord is my no 1 choice…I heard mazda 6 is very stiff although I haven’t test driven it yet but the new latest one get 17" rims instead of 18" so probably a bit softer…but yeah, I’ll consider it too, tks for bring it up
I love that new subaru legacy 2.5T but it’s just out of my budget …[/quote]
To be honest I much prefer 17" in general for Taiwan’s roads. In fact I even mentiond to Redwagon a while back I was disapointed to see new, larger rims on a Legacy. The roads here require a little give in the tyres so as not to destroy the rims to early and also add just a little comfort to passengers. It was the same where I came from in the U.K. uneven North Eastern roads. The 17s were perfect for the most part.
[quote=“StreetSpec”]
well if I really go that road, the new accord is my no 1 choice…I heard mazda 6 is very stiff although I haven’t test driven it yet but the new latest one get 17" rims instead of 18" so probably a bit softer…but yeah, I’ll consider it too, tks for bring it up
I love that new subaru legacy 2.5T but it’s just out of my budget 
…[/quote]
To be honest I much prefer 17" in general for Taiwan’s roads. In fact I even mentiond to Redwagon a while back I was disapointed to see new, larger rims on a Legacy. The roads here require a little give in the tyres so as not to destroy the rims to early and also add just a little comfort to passengers. It was the same where I came from in the U.K. uneven North Eastern roads. The 17s were perfect for the most part.[/quote]
Yep. 18’s are a fashion statement on most of these cars and completely unnecessary. Until you are at quite a high power level and have a rather stiff suspension the bigger wheels just slow you down and reduce the efficiency of your brakes with the added rotational mass, and make your ride less comfortable. 17’s are a much better choice here.
The new Legacy GT is a really sweet ride (despite the silly big rims) and very good value for money when you look at what it offers. I predict a lot of these will be sold if Subaru can figure out how to get people into the showrooms.
There are showrooms? :eh:
That’s the problem I think. Yes, they could be more successful, but they really need to stick their head out the door once in a while.
yup nice car really specially the wagon one, rear seat is very comfy…can’t find the used one yet…still $1.6m new?
[quote=“sulavaca”]
Taxi drivers use that method perhaps because they are often very cheap and only think short term. They don’t always care about the long term effects to their vehicles, which also happens to be why nobody would ever consider a used taxi unless they were desperate. .[/quote]
Strange isn’t it?
I mean, the vehicle is their livlihood, and they are likely to be keeping it for a long while and spreading any investment over massive mileages.
Logically you’d think they’d be the last people with a rationale for cutting corners, but I guess logic doesn’t apply.
Is that just here or does it apply in the UK as well?
[quote=“Ducked”][quote=“sulavaca”]
Taxi drivers use that method perhaps because they are often very cheap and only think short term. They don’t always care about the long term effects to their vehicles, which also happens to be why nobody would ever consider a used taxi unless they were desperate. .[/quote]
Strange isn’t it?
I mean, the vehicle is their livlihood, and they are likely to be keeping it for a long while and spreading any investment over massive mileages.
Logically you’d think they’d be the last people with a rationale for cutting corners, but I guess logic doesn’t apply.
Is that just here or does it apply in the UK as well?[/quote]
I once watched a documentary on the humble London cab. I didn’t know that the average mileage on a Austin FX4 London Cab was about 1 million miles until I saw that. Of course a typical cab would see replacement panels, reconditioned engine, gearbox etc over the years, but that’s some serious mileage, even considering the level of service they received during their lifetime.
Cab drivers here seem to think that the faster they go down the road looking for a fare then the faster they’ll find one, deliver them and then get straight onto the next one.