Massive Landslide on No. 3 Freeway

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
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21

Wow. That’s awful. But am I the only one who looks at these photos and thinks that they show some gross neglagance, or at least ignorance, in engineering and or geology? And I think that if there was a concrete retaining wall that was part of the issue, then it’s not simple ignorance.

I don’t remember everything from my undergrad electives, but looking at the photos it looks like a pretty classic, and obvious, stress relief flow. That would have been predictable. Instead of trying to shore it up, it could have been triggered before the road was built. Especially in a place where land slides are frequent enough with rain and quakes.

22

Watching the morning chatterbox channels. They have mobilized a lot of earth-moving equipment to the scene. Impressive response I’d say.

Prayers to the families of those involved. :pray:

23

:frowning:

there was a small earthquake saturday near Yilan - couldn’t that have triggered it perhaps?
like if you shake a bag of flour it will stand still right after, but give a little time and parts might drop off ?

24

We drive on this section of road everyday. The inlaws were going to come out after lunch yesterday but stayed home to watch the debate on TV. Thank goodness they did. There is usually less traffic on this section right after lunch, and it gets busier late afternoon.

There is a house just under this highway, on the north side of the mountain. I bet the occupants are feeling very lucky the slip went the direction it did. It seems they were still in there when we drove past last night - I would have been out there! It was an amazing sight last night, with the lights and shadows from all the excavators, emergency service vehicles and trucks along the highway. The roads are blocked from Keelung on the north side, so do check your route before heading out.

25

This fuck up was brought to you by the students and faculty of the National Chabuduo School of Engineering.

26

Just think of the number of roads and highways all around Taiwan that are abutted by these types of hills. It’s just an act of nature, I wouldn’t go blaming Taiwanese too quickly. Taiwan has the highest rate of mountain erosion in the world. Water probably built up along an impervious bed and the whole thing sheared off.

27

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Taiwan has the highest rate of mountain erosion in the world. Water probably built up along an impervious bed and the whole thing sheared off.[/quote]Neither factor is new information that wasn’t available when the freeway was designed. If proper studies had been done, the design work done accordingly and construction up to par with the spec that a good design called for, this shouldn’t happen. It’s the cavalier attitude that gets them every time. Of course back when (for example) the cross-island highway was built, the newly-arrived Chinese engineers didn’t have much experience or research to draw from so mistakes were inevitable. The #3 freeway is quite new and there is plenty of data on how unstable those slopes are.
There are very smart people at work these days in some of top unis and think tanks, but the state has a habit of ignoring them. Did you know that not a single capital construction project has ever been abandoned because of an environmental impact assessment?

28

Surprised to see very little English coverage of a gigantic landslide on Freeway No. 3 that has completely covered all 6 lanes over a length of 300m! http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_content.php?id=1237105&lang=eng_news&cate_img=logo_taiwan&cate_rss=TAIWAN_eng

According to the Freeway Bureau it will take 800 people working 24 hours a day over 2 weeks to clear the rubble. Amazingly no deaths reported so far but there could be at least 4 cars trapped underneath.

http://tw.news.yahoo.com/featurestory2/landslip.html

[color=#008000](mod: this post was merged from its very own thread where it was a bit lonely)[/color]

29

etaiwannews.com/etn/news_con … ety_TAIWAN

More news here. Nobody wants to say the obvious, its going to be a recovery operation rather then a rescue operation. The zillion tons of rocks wouldve crushed in seconds anyone that got in the way. Cars wouldnt have remained whole in that. There would be no air pockets in that dirt.

The workers should be careful to dig the mess away properly lest any accidents claim more lives as is certainly possible.

30

You never know. I for one still have my fingers crossed for the missing people. :frowning:

31

[quote=“redwagon”]Neither factor is new information that wasn’t available when the freeway was designed. If proper studies had been done, the design work done accordingly and construction up to par with the spec that a good design called for, this shouldn’t happen. It’s the cavalier attitude that gets them every time. Of course back when (for example) the cross-island highway was built, the newly-arrived Chinese engineers didn’t have much experience or research to draw from so mistakes were inevitable. The #3 freeway is quite new and there is plenty of data on how unstable those slopes are.
There are very smart people at work these days in some of top unis and think tanks, but the state has a habit of ignoring them. Did you know that not a single capital construction project has ever been abandoned because of an environmental impact assessment?[/quote]

This is what I was saying!

God speed to any who may have survived and their families. If they’re in there, they’re burried alive and it would almost be more merciful to have gone instantly.

32

Praying for those that might be under the rubble :cry: :pray:

33

Tinster,

A really strange thing about this area is, we don’t actually feel earthquakes. Like the one today. I didn’t know there was one until I came back into the city this afternoon. Everyone was talking about the big earthquake. I was sitting at my computer at the time of the earthquake this morning and didn’t feel a thing.

34

You never know. I for one still have my fingers crossed for the missing people. :frowning:[/quote]

Yes im actually hoping as well. And obviously one major reason why they are literally moving heaven and earth there.

35

At least they found something:

[quote]Rescuers scrambling to dig out cars suspected of being buried Sunday in a landslide on the No. 3 National Freeway have found a license plate that corresponds to one of the vehicles said to be missing.

The license plate with the number VF4988, which was found at 11: 47 p.m. Tuesday, matches that of the Mercedes-Benz that was reported as missing on Monday by the father of one of the car’s passengers, Kuo Wen-han, who was headed to Keelung with his girlfriend.

[/quote]
From CNA

They were showing the girl’s father on the news. Furthermore, there seems confirmation of at least one more car under the rubble. So far, they had three vehicles, 4 people missing.

In Chinese news, they say they found two car plates:
tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/ … 24mqm.html

Plates 8186-WW had not been reported before by family members, so it could be a fifth car. EDIT: Car found and owner still alive, was not crushed.

The ones they had reported as missing so far:
tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/ … 24mia.html

36

According to Apple Daily (so of course it MUST be true! Eh, Toasty? :wink: ) they had NO stability warning sensors in the hillside above the freeway, PLUS, they’d neglected to install sufficient drainage in the retaining wall. Not a natural disaster at all – simple criminal negligence.

37

All too typical. After a few dozen more times that people die due to negligence about safety, they might get round to being proactive about this kind of problem, maybe.

BTW, that’s a HUUUUGE BITCH of a landslide, ain’t it? When I saw the photos in the papers today, I just couldn’t believe it. Poor folks stuck inside.

38

[quote=“housecat”][quote=“redwagon”]Neither factor is new information that wasn’t available when the freeway was designed. If proper studies had been done, the design work done accordingly and construction up to par with the spec that a good design called for, this shouldn’t happen. It’s the cavalier attitude that gets them every time. Of course back when (for example) the cross-island highway was built, the newly-arrived Chinese engineers didn’t have much experience or research to draw from so mistakes were inevitable. The #3 freeway is quite new and there is plenty of data on how unstable those slopes are.
There are very smart people at work these days in some of top unis and think tanks, but the state has a habit of ignoring them. Did you know that not a single capital construction project has ever been abandoned because of an environmental impact assessment?[/quote]

This is what I was saying!

God speed to any who may have survived and their families. If they’re in there, they’re burried alive and it would almost be more merciful to have gone instantly.[/quote]

If they are so smart they should join the parties where they can effect change, rather than cribbing from think-tanks and unis. Smart doesn’t mean sh%t. Most of Taiwan’s cabinet has PhDs and were top lawyers over the last 10 years, look at the mess they made!

39

[quote=“headhonchoII”]
If they are so smart they should join the parties where they can effect change, rather than cribbing from think-tanks and unis. Smart doesn’t mean sh%t. Most of Taiwan’s cabinet has PhDs and were top lawyers over the last 10 years, look at the mess they made![/quote]
Lawyers, businessmen and gangsters go into politics all the time. How many politicians have you ever heard of that have an engineering background? Governments appoint committees to study technical questions regarding public works projects rather than hire engineers to consider these questions. If the problem is that the government doesn’t listen to the committees it appoints, or pads them with yes-men, how would it improve things to have them within their parties? :s

40

My neighbors were commenting -and shaking their heads in dissapproval- how those containing structures are suppose dto last 30 years…

A bit from the news -to be taken with quite a bit of salt:

[quote]The government could still give no clear explanation of why the landslide happened without rain or earthquake. The geological structure of the collapsed hill, known as a dip slope, was thought to be responsible for the landslide. An added element suspected to have played a role in the disaster was the state of anchors supposed to stop the rocks from covering the road.

National Taiwan University geologist Chen Wen-shan said the disaster was manmade, because if people had not built a road there in the first place, there would have been no landslide. The anchors might have rusted after a decade, or their design might have been faulty, leaving them not strong enough to keep the hill in place, Chen said.

The Ministry of Transportation said it wanted to know within three days how many more dip slopes were situated along Taiwan’s roads. Reports mentioned about a dozen such locations in the same area alone.

[/quote]
etaiwannews.com/etn/news_con … ety_TAIWAN

Somehow on the news there was also the bit that there was no bientang/food for the rescuers, but some freezers -for the bodies- were brought to the scene. The reaction was strong:

[quote]In the small hours of Tuesday, Chen Yung-shen, owner of a porridge company based in Taipei County’s Zhonghe City, drove his van loaded with porridge to the site where more than 1,000 rescue workers, manning 200 excavators and other heavy equipment, have been working non-stop in shifts in rainy weather.

Chen said he took the hot porridge, made with pork and thousand-year eggs, to help warm up the rescuers who must be tired and hungry.
…
The Tzu Chi volunteers, who were meeting in Keelung City Sunday in preparation for the celebration of Sakyamuni’s birthday, took buns and stuffed rice rolls to the scene immediately after they learned about the accident.

Other members of the public have also pitched in, driving to the site to distribute food and drinks to the rescue workers.
[/quote]
From CNA