McCain blames Clinton for North Korea

McCain goes for the husband of his potential 2008 rival in this article.

[quote]“I would remind Senator (Hillary) Clinton and other Democrats critical of the Bush administration’s policies that the framework agreement her husband’s administration negotiated was a failure,” McCain said at a news conference after a campaign appearance for Republican Senate candidate Mike Bouchard.

“The Koreans received millions and millions in energy assistance. They’ve diverted millions of dollars of food assistance to their military,” he said.[/quote]

Slate’s Fred Kaplan responds in this Slate editorial:

[quote]McCain’s version of history goes beyond “revisionism” to outright falsification. It is the exact opposite of what really happened. Let’s take a look at the plain facts.

In the spring of 1994, barely a year into Bill Clinton’s presidency, the North Koreans announced that they were about to remove the fuel rods from their nuclear reactor (as a first step to reprocessing them into plutonium), cancel their commitment to the Non-Proliferation Treaty (which they had signed in 1985), and expel the international weapons inspectors (who had been guarding the rods under the treaty’s authority).

Did Clinton “reward” them for doing these things, as McCain claims? Far from it. Not only did he push the U.N. Security Council to consider sanctions, he also ordered the Joint Chiefs of Staff to draw up plans to send 50,000 additional troops to South Korea—bolstering the 37,000 already there—along with more than 400 combat jets, 50 ships, and several battalions of Apache helicopters, Bradley fighting vehicles, multiple-launch rockets, and Patriot air-defense missiles. He also sent in an advance team of 250 soldiers to set up logistical headquarters for the influx of troops and gear.

He sent an explicit signal that removing the fuel rods would cross a “red line.” Several of his former aides insist that if North Korea had crossed that line, he would have launched an airstrike on the Yongbyon reactor, even knowing that it might lead to war.[/quote]

And this is Kaplan again, back in 2004, saying that in fact it was Bush’s inept handling of the DPRK (or whatever that abbreviation is) that led to the current situation:

Rolling Blunder: How the Bush administration let North Korea get nukes.

[quote]…the North Koreans had another route to nuclear weapons–a stash of radioactive fuel rods, taken a decade earlier from its nuclear power plant in Yongbyon. These rods could be processed into plutonium–and, from that, into A-bombs–not in years but in months. Thanks to an agreement brokered by the Clinton administration, the rods were locked in a storage facility under the monitoring of international weapons-inspectors. Common sense dictated that–whatever it did about the centrifuges–the Bush administration should do everything possible to keep the fuel rods locked up.

Unfortunately, common sense was in short supply. After a few shrill diplomatic exchanges over the uranium, Pyongyang upped the ante. The North Koreans expelled the international inspectors, broke the locks on the fuel rods, loaded them onto a truck, and drove them to a nearby reprocessing facility, to be converted into bomb-grade plutonium. The White House stood by and did nothing. Why did George W. Bush–his foreign policy avowedly devoted to stopping “rogue regimes” from acquiring weapons of mass destruction–allow one of the world’s most dangerous regimes to acquire the makings of the deadliest WMDs? Given the current mayhem and bloodshed in Iraq, it’s hard to imagine a decision more ill-conceived than invading that country unilaterally without a plan for the “post-war” era. But the Bush administration’s inept diplomacy toward North Korea might well have graver consequences. President Bush made the case for war in Iraq on the premise that Saddam Hussein might soon have nuclear weapons–which turned out not to be true. Kim Jong-il may have nuclear weapons now; he certainly has enough plutonium to build some, and the reactors to breed more.[/quote]

I’m sure there’s a perfectly good explanation for all this. They must have gotten the slides mixed up during the national security briefings. After all, Kim Jong Il does bear a striking resemblance to Saddam Hussein.

I find it ironic how the “personal accountability” Republicans are so quick to pass blame onto others. And when they’re at their most desperate, the “other” is usually Clinton.

That’s because Clinton is a lying scumbag…when McCain was being held in a North Vietnamese prison, “Rhodes Scholar” Clinton was escaping to the US to avoid rape charges at Oxford. Maybe if he hadn’t have had Monica giving him blowjobs while he was on the phone ordering American troops into battle, he’d have just a little more respect.

Come on Chris, Clinton tried the huggy feely approach to foreign policy and it was a miserable flocking failure. Clearly Bill didn’t have the sack to cut NK off when the US actually had a hand to play.

Come on Chris, Clinton tried the huggy feely approach to foreign policy and it was a miserable flocking failure. Clearly Bill didn’t have the sack to cut NK off when the US actually had a hand to play.[/quote]

The “huggy feely” approaches (as you put it) do work - they just take time. Longer than two presidential terms. Bush ended Clinton’s engagement policies, and that’s when the big trouble started.

[quote=“Chris”]
The “huggy feely” approaches (as you put it) do work - they just take time. [/quote]

Right. They worked great in Serbia/Bosnia/Kosovo.

[quote=“Doctor Evil”][quote=“Chris”]
The “huggy feely” approaches (as you put it) do work - they just take time. [/quote]

Right. They worked great in Serbia/Bosnia/Kosovo.[/quote]

And the “ignore and navel gaze” approach worked in Rawanda too.

I do not blame Clinton for not doing more about North Korea. We simply could not engage in military action and everyone knows that. Carter and his buffoonery and desperate groveling for a Nobel prize nothwithstanding, there was nothing the US could do then and there is nothing we can do now but engage in containment. We have arrived at pretty much the same boat with regard to Iran. I am glad we took out Saddam before he too reached that stage. Bush was wise to get rid of him.

As to Darfur, let the Europeans handle that. Here is a perfect example where international law, UN blah blah blah aid is needed, more assistance for peace, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah etc etc etc etc would be a perfect case for EU action. Let us see what it and the UN manages to do. International law, UN imprimatur, suffering people, etc etc etc. Go to it and let us know how it goes. Our European friends should be glad to engage in a conflict where there is a clear cut case of international law and human rights and all that being violated. How much longer do you expect them to dither? I would end with my usual hahahahaha but it is not funny but it makes for an object lesson to those who claim to believe in the sanctity of such organizations, actions, policies, etc etc and on that note and that subject alone I will end with my hahahaha

Not everyone:

CONPLAN 8022, STRATCOM

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Doctor Evil”][quote=“Chris”]
The “huggy feely” approaches (as you put it) do work - they just take time. [/quote]

Right. They worked great in Serbia/Bosnia/Kosovo.[/quote]

And the “ignore and navel gaze” approach worked in Rawanda too.[/quote]

Of what strategic import was Rwanda? How was the situation in Rwanda going to affect the national security of the U.S.? Same goes for Serbia/Bosnia/Kosovo - Nada, nyet, none. So, really, who gives a shit? I don’t. Tragic circumstances, yes. Back to reality now . . . North Korea HAS the A-Bomb, and it happened on GW Bush’s watch. End of story. Good job Bushie.

Bodo

Back in 2003 after the axis of evil nonsense Bush was seeking funding for the North Koreans to build two reactors.

And to the pro-war do badders, when do you want to invade North Korea then?

[quote=“Bodo”][quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Doctor Evil”][quote=“Chris”]
The “huggy feely” approaches (as you put it) do work - they just take time. [/quote]

Right. They worked great in Serbia/Bosnia/Kosovo.[/quote]

And the “ignore and navel gaze” approach worked in Rawanda too.[/quote]

Of what strategic import was Rwanda? How was the situation in Rwanda going to affect the national security of the U.S.? Same goes for Serbia/Bosnia/Kosovo - Nada, nyet, none. So, really, who gives a shit? I don’t. Tragic circumstances, yes. Back to reality now . . . North Korea HAS the A-Bomb, and it happened on GW Bush’s watch. End of story. Good job Bushie.

Bodo[/quote]

The chances of ANYONE using a nuke is slim to none. It’s all diplomatic. You don’t give a shit that a million people were hacked to death? You’re a (wo)man among men. :unamused:

I recently read that the US should be the world’s policeman, but we should be picky about which beat to walk. Jumping into massacres to protect civilians from dipshit mobs run by insane dictators is fine by me. The moral high ground is strategic because sooner or later these people, if any survive will ask, “Where the fuck were you guys when we needed you?”

Your compassion skills need work. Literally helpless civilians literally cut to pieces. Tragic but tough shit. That’s sweet. :raspberry:

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Bodo”][quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Doctor Evil”][quote=“Chris”]
The “huggy feely” approaches (as you put it) do work - they just take time. [/quote]

Right. They worked great in Serbia/Bosnia/Kosovo.[/quote]

And the “ignore and navel gaze” approach worked in Rawanda too.[/quote]

Of what strategic import was Rwanda? How was the situation in Rwanda going to affect the national security of the U.S.? Same goes for Serbia/Bosnia/Kosovo - Nada, nyet, none. So, really, who gives a shit? I don’t. Tragic circumstances, yes. Back to reality now . . . North Korea HAS the A-Bomb, and it happened on GW Bush’s watch. End of story. Good job Bushie.

Bodo[/quote]

The chances of ANYONE using a nuke is slim to none. It’s all diplomatic. You don’t give a shit that a million people were hacked to death? You’re a (wo)man among men. :unamused:

I recently read that the US should be the world’s policeman, but we should be picky about which beat to walk. Jumping into massacres to protect civilians from dipshit mobs run by insane dictators is fine by me. The moral high ground is strategic because sooner or later these people, if any survive will ask, “Where the fuck were you guys when we needed you?”

Your compassion skills need work. Literally helpless civilians literally cut to pieces. Tragic but tough shit. That’s sweet. :raspberry:[/quote]

Lil Kim Jong might not choose to use his nukes, yet he might choose to share his technology with dubious characters who would like to do the U.S. and the West harm. You’re not concerned about that? You seemed awfully concerned about Saddam having WMD, why not the other 1/3 of the “Axis of Evil”?

Yeah, about not giving a shit about Rwandans and a massacre . . . the U.S. hasn’t given a shit about lots of massacres around the world. What are we doing in Sudan? Pretty much nothing. How about Idi Amin, where were we?

[quote]Many of the world’s most repressive dictators have been friends of America.

Tyrants, torturers, killers, and sundry dictators and corrupt puppet-presidents have been aided, supported, and rewarded handsomely for their loyalty to US interests. Traditional dictators seize control through force, while constitutional dictators hold office through voting fraud or severely restricted elections, and are frequently puppets and apologists for the military juntas which control
the ballot boxes. In any case, none have been democratically elected by the majority of their people in fair and open elections.

They are democratic America’s undemocratic allies. They may rise to power through bloody ClA-backed coups and rule by terror and torture. Their troops may receive training or advice from the CIA and other US agencies. US military aid and weapons sales often strengthen their armies and guarantee their hold on power. Unwavering “anti-communism” and a willingness to provide unhampered access for American business interests to exploit their countries’ natural resources and cheap labor are the excuses for their repression, and the primary reason the US government supports them. They may be linked internationalIy to extreme right-wing groups such as the World Anti-Communist League, and some have had strong Nazi affiliations and have offered sanctuary to WWll Nazi war criminals.

They usually grow rich, while their countries’ economies deteriorate and the majority of their people live in poverty. US tax dollars and US-backed loans have made billionaires of some, while others are international drug dealers who also collect CIA paychecks. Rarely are they called to account for their crimes. And rarely still, is the US government held responsible for supporting and protecting some of the worst human rights violators in the world.

Abacha, General Sani Nigeria
Amin, Idi Uganda
Banzer, Colonel Hugo Bolivia
Batista, Fulgencio Cuba
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal Brunei
Botha, P.W. South Africa
Branco, General Humberto Brazil
Cedras, Raoul Haiti
Cerezo, Vinicio Guatemala
Chiang Kai-Shek Taiwan
Cordova, Roberto Suazo Honduras
Christiani, Alfredo El Salvador
Diem, Ngo Dihn Vietnam
Doe, General Samuel Liberia
Duvalier, Francois Haiti
Duvalier, Jean Claude Haiti
Fahd bin’Abdul-'Aziz, King Saudi Arabia
Franco, General Francisco Spain
Hitler, Adolf Germany
Hassan II Morocco
Marcos, Ferdinand Philippines
Martinez, General Maximiliano Hernandez El Salvador
Mobutu Sese Seko Zaire
Montt, General Efrain Rios
Guatemala
Noriega, General Manuel Panama
Ozal, Turgut Turkey
Pahlevi, Shah Mohammed Reza Iran
Papadopoulos, George Greece
Park Chung Hee South Korea
Pinochet, General Augusto Chile
Pol Pot Cambodia
Rabuka, General Sitiveni Fiji
Montt, General Efrain Rios Guatemala
Salassie, Halie Ethiopia
Salazar, Antonio de Oliveira Portugal
Somoza, Anastasio Jr. Nicaragua
Somoza, Anastasio, Sr. Nicaragua
Smith, Ian Rhodesia
Stroessner, Alfredo Paraguay
Suharto, General Indonesia
Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas Dominican Republic
Videla, General Jorge Rafael Argentina
Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed Pakistan
[/quote]
JD - where were you and the US gov’t when these guys were killing/massacre-ing people? Have the chickens come home to roost? :unamused:

As you noted, the US can’t go into each and every country where this stuff is going on and actively stop it. The US can through its policies choose not to support these types. In reality, I think it’s appalling that thousands of people in Rwanda were hacked to death. It would have been great if some outside country with power/clout had chosen to do something to end it. That didn’t happen. I suspect that US foreign policy is driven by US interests, one of which is probably to retain military and economic superiority over the rest of the world. If that’s good for Americans, hey, I’m all for it. But, as you also mentioned, at some point the chickens WILL come home to roost. In other words, people with valid complaints about the status quo, yet who don’t have a great military or great economic might, may choose to use terror as a weapon - because it’s effective to some degree. If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were jumping the Fred Smith ship that states we don’t need to understand the root causes of terrorism and try to address those rather just bomb the mutha f**kahs into the stone age (borrowed that from Richard Armitage, thanks Rich!).

Bodo