Me against Pedigree

My Dofu loves bones and they seem to make his poop rock hard. His favorite is a big hambone which he demolishes in about 2-3 hours. He also likes spare rib bones, but lately he tends to regurgitate those so we’ve stopped giving him those. Coming from the States, I was always told not to give a dog chicken bones, and so he only gets the cartilage heads of these bones.

Dofu eats banannas, grapes, pickles, tomatos and grapefruit. He doesn’t like lemons or limes.

QUESTION:

What is so special about feeding the doggies raw meats? Yes, I know that in the wild they ate/eat raw meats… but so did our early anscestors! I boil all of Dofus stuff… no salt added. Is there really any greater benefit to feeding the meats raw rather than cooked?

Small breed Science Diet, that’s all my dog gets. He loves it, poop is ship shape and no smell, either. Fruits and vegetables, too, which he freakin loves.

Problem now is that Hill’s SD has been relegated to the non-import list for Taiwan, due to the US mad-cow scare. I rushed out and bought a couple small bags, the last ones I could see.

Any ideas about substitutes for Hill’s SD?

Also, thanks for the peanut butter tip, I’m going to try that next time my dog gets his worm medicine.

I’m not sure about the benefits of raw over cooked meat as such (suppose it’s the higher protein/vitamin content?), but as Maoman pointed out, it’s the BONES that you’re not supposed to cook/boil because of splintering. Thus, if you want them to eat the bones, the meat on them has to be raw too. Saying that, mine have learned to crunch up things like chicken wings methodically, rather than snap-swallow, so there’s less chance of a splintered bone getting caught in the throat or elsewhere.

Dofu’s diet sounds great - can’t get mine to eat citrus either but they all LOVE peanut-butter yeast and garlic vitamin tabs! :smiley:

Also, important - heartworm pills once a month. They’re not cheap here, but they could save your dog’s life. (Don’t start on the pills until your dog is at least 6 months old.)

Flike, if you want your dog to eat medicine, try putting the pill in a ball of liver sausage. We get ours from Costco, and our dog loves the stuff.

The list of ingredients in pedigree and other pet foods!!
Makes me really wanna feed the stuff to my crew!! NOT! Unfortunately I don’t have the time to cook for my dogs or I would!

Companion animals from clinics, pounds, and shelters can and are being rendered and used as sources of protein in pet food. Dead-stock removal operations play a major role in the pet food industry. Dead animals, road kill that cannot be buried at roadside, and in some cases, zoo animals, are picked up by these dead stock operations. When an animal dies in the field or is killed due to illness or disability, the dead stock operators pick them up and truck them to the receiving plant. There the dead animal is salvaged for meat or, depending on the state of decomposition, delivered to a rendering plant. At the receiving plants, the animals of value are skinned and viscera removed. Hides of cattle and calves are sold for tanning. The usable meat is removed from the carcass, and covered in charcoal to prevent it from being used for human consumption. Then the meat is frozen, and sold as animal food, which includes pet food.

The packages of this frozen meat must be clearly marked as “unfit for human consumption.” The rest of the carcass and poorer quality products including viscera, fat, etcetera, are sent to the rendering facilities. Rendering plants are melting pots for all types of refuse. Restaurant grease and garbage; meats and baked goods long past the expiration dates from supermarkets (Styrofoam trays and shrink-wrap included); the entrails from dead stock removal operations, and the condemned and contaminated material from slaughterhouses. All of these are rendered.

The slaughterhouses where cattle, pigs, goats, calves, sheep, poultry, and rabbits meet their fate, provide more fuel for rendering. After slaughter, heads, feet, skin, toenails, hair, feathers, carpal and tarsal joints, and mammary glands are removed. This material is sent to rendering. Animals who have died on their way to slaughter are rendered. Cancerous tissue or tumors and worm-infested organs are rendered. Injection sites, blood clots, bone splinters, or extraneous matter are rendered. Contaminated blood is rendered. Stomach and bowels are rendered. Contaminated material containing or having been treated with a substance not permitted by, or in any amount in excess of limits prescribed under the Food and Drug Act or the Environmental Protection Act. In other words, if a carcass contains high levels of drugs or pesticides this material is rendered.

Before rendering, this material from the slaughterhouse is “denatured,” which means that the material from the slaughterhouse is covered with a particular substance to prevent it from getting back into the human food chain. In the United States the substances used for denaturing include: crude carbolic acid, fuel oil, or citronella. In Canada the denaturing agent is Birkolene B. When I asked, the Ministry of Agriculture would not divulge the composition of Birkolene B, stating its ingredients are a trade secret.

At the rendering plant, slaughterhouse material, restaurant and supermarket refuse, dead stock, road kill, and euthanized companion animals are dumped into huge containers. A machine slowly grinds the entire mess. After it is chipped or shredded, it is cooked at temperatures of between 220 degrees F. and 270 degrees F. (104.4 to 132.2 degrees C.) for twenty minutes to one hour. The grease or tallow rises to the top, where it is removed from the mixture. This is the source of animal fat in most pet foods. The remaining material, the raw, is then put into a press where the moisture is squeezed out. We now have meat and bone meal.

The Association of American Feed Control Officials in its “Ingredient Definitions,” describe meat meal as the rendered product from mammal tissue exclusive of blood, hair, hoof, hide, trimmings, manure, stomach, and rumen (the first stomach or the cud of a cud chewing animal) contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. In an article written by David C. Cooke, “Animal Disposal: Fact and Fiction,” Cooke noted, “Can you imagine trying to remove the hair and stomach contents from 600,000 tons of dog and cats prior to cooking them?” It would seem that either the Association of American Feed Control Officials definition of meat meal or meat and bone meal should be redefined or it needs to include a better description of “good factory practices.”

When 4-D animals are picked up and sent to these rendering facilities, you can be assured that the stomach contents are not removed. The blood is not drained nor are the horns and hooves removed. The only portion of the animal that might be removed is the hide and any meat that may be salvageable and not too diseased to be sold as raw pet food or livestock feed. The Minister of Agriculture in Quebec made it clear that companion animals are rendered completely.

Pet Food Industry magazine states that a pet food manufacturer might reject rendered material for various reasons, including the presence of foreign material (metals, hair, plastic, rubber, glass), off odor, excessive feathers, hair or hog bristles, bone chunks, mold, chemical analysis out of specification, added blood, leather, or calcium carbonate, heavy metals, pesticide contamination, improper grind or bulk density, and insect infestation.

Please note that this article states that the manufacturer might reject this material, not that it does reject this material.

If the label on the pet food you purchase states that the product contains meat meal, or meat and bone meal, it is possible that it is comprised of all the materials listed above.

Meat, as defined by the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO), is the clean flesh derived from slaughtered mammals and is limited to that part of the striate muscle that is skeletal or that which is found in the tongue, diaphragm, heart, or esophagus; with or without the accompanying and overlying fat and the portions of the skin, sinew, nerve, and blood vessels that normally accompany the flesh. When you read on a pet food label that the product contains “real meat,” you are getting blood vessels, sinew and so on-hardly the tasty meat that the industry would have us believe it is putting in the food.

Meat by-products are the non rendered, clean parts other than meat derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low temperature fatty tissue, and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. Again, be assured that if it could be used for human consumption, such as kidneys and livers, it would not be going into pet food. If a liver is found to be infested with worms (liver flukes), if lungs are filled with pneumonia, these can become pet food. However, in Canada, disease-free intestines can still be used for sausage casing for humans instead of pet food.

What about other sources of protein that can be used in pet food? Poultry-by-product meal consists of ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practice.

Poultry-hatchery by-products are a mixture of egg shells, infertile and unhatched eggs and culled chicks that have been cooked, dried and ground, with or without removal of part of the fat.

Poultry by-products include non rendered clean parts of carcasses of slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and viscera, free of fecal content and foreign matter except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice. These are all definitions as listed in the AAFCO “Ingredient Definitions.”

Hydrolyzed poultry feather is another source of protein - not digestible protein, but protein nonetheless. This product results from the treatment under pressure of clean, intact feathers from slaughtered poultry free of additives, and/or accelerators.

We have covered the meat and poultry that can be used in commercial pet foods but according to the AAFCO there are a number of other sources that can make up the protein in these foods. As we venture down the road of these other sources, please be advised to proceed at your own risk if you have a weak stomach.

Hydrolysed hair is a product prepared from clean hair treated by heat and pressure to produce a product suitable for animal feeding.

Spray-dried animal blood is produced from clean, fresh animal blood, exclusive of all extraneous material such as hair, stomach belching (contents of stomach), and urine, except in such traces as might occur unavoidably in good factory practices.

Dehydrated food-waste is any and all animal and vegetable produce picked up from basic food processing sources or institutions where food is processed. The produce shall be picked up daily or sufficiently often so that no decomposition is evident. With this ingredient, it seems that what you don’t see won’t hurt you.

Dehydrated garbage is composed of artificially dried animal and vegetable waste collected sufficiently often that harmful decomposition has not set in and from which have been separated crockery, glass, metal, string, and similar materials.

Dehydrated paunch products are composed of the contents of the rumen of slaughtered cattle, dehydrated at temperatures over 212 degrees F. (100 degrees C.) to a moisture content of 12 percent or less, such dehydration is designed to destroy any pathogenic bacteria.

Dried poultry waste is a processed animal waste product composed primarily of processed ruminant excreta that has been artificially dehydrated to a moisture content not in excess of 15 percent. It shall contain not less than 12 percent crude protein, not more than 40 percent crude fiber, including straw, wood shavings and so on, and not more than 30 percent ash.

Dried swine waste is a processed animal-waste product composed primarily of swine excreta that has been artificially dehydrated to a moisture content not in excess of 15 percent. It shall contain not less than 20 percent crude protein, not more than 35 percent crude fiber, including other material such as straw, woodshavings, or acceptable bedding materials, and not more than 20 percent ash.

Undried processed animal waste product is composed of excreta, with or without the litter, from poultry, ruminants, or any other animal except humans, which may or may not include other feed ingredients, and which contains in excess of 15 percent feed ingredients, and which contains in excess of 15 percent moisture. It shall contain no more than 30 percent combined wood, woodshavings, litter, dirt, sand, rocks, and similar extraneous materials.
:noway:

For the record
My dogs dont eat Pet Food, that would be like eating McDonalds everyday!
So, we feed

Chicken Wings, breasts, loins
No pork
any kind of lamb we can get our hands on
same as above for beef

we suppliment kelp, alfalfa, and Salmon oil

All the above is served raw.

Our dogs wil eat fruits, veggies, and raw eggs aswell

Our dogs are healthy and happy!

[quote=“Steeevieboy”]No pork
[/quote]

Why no pork? (BTW, I boil everything)

Costco has a new brand of cat and dog food in the large 20lb bags. Ive never heard of the brand. Anybody know anything about it? I feed my cats a 50/50 mix of Royal Canin and Kirkland food. Royal canin is supposedly the best quality food out there.

[quote=“tigerman”][quote=“Steeevieboy”]No pork
[/quote]

Why no pork? (BTW, I boil everything)[/quote]
Steeevieboy doesn’t:

So it’s probably to avoid giving the dogs trichinosis.

"Effen Foods admits Pedigree brand dog food caused kidney disease

The makers of Pedigree Dry brand dog food apologized to customers Tuesday after acknowledging that cases of kidney disease in dogs in Taiwan, South Korea and Southeast Asia were most likely caused by its dry dog food produced in Thailand.

Effem Foods Thailand Co., a subsidiary of food and confectionary giant Mars Inc., said in a statement that the renal illness cases were most likely caused by toxins produced by mold found in raw material at its pet food manufacturing plant in the northern province of Nakhon Rachasima."
Full story here:
asia.news.yahoo.com/040323/kyodo/d81g27ig0.html

[quote=“joesax”]"Effen Foods admits Pedigree brand dog food caused kidney disease

The makers of Pedigree Dry brand dog food apologized to customers Tuesday after acknowledging that cases of kidney disease in dogs in Taiwan, South Korea and Southeast Asia were most likely caused by its dry dog food produced in Thailand.

Effem Foods Thailand Co., a subsidiary of food and confectionary giant Mars Inc., said in a statement that the renal illness cases were most likely caused by toxins produced by mold found in raw material at its pet food manufacturing plant in the northern province of Nakhon Rachasima."
Full story here:
Asia.news.yahoo.com/040323/kyodo/d81g27ig0.html[/quote]

Then they’re open to being hit with a class-action lawsuit.

El Tigre, are you interested in taking this one up on behalf of bereaved dog owners in Taiwan, and raking in a fat contingency fee from the multi-million-dollar settlement?

I got my dog from the pound. I tried to feed her that stuff but she wouldn’t have it. All she will eat is fish heads, tails, eggs and rice.

[quote=“Omniloquacious”]Then they’re open to being hit with a class-action lawsuit.

El Tigre, are you interested in taking this one up on behalf of bereaved dog owners in Taiwan, and raking in a fat contingency fee from the multi-million-dollar settlement?[/quote]

Our firm does not take cases on a contingency basis.

The manufacturer is in Thailand, right? I think you’d have to obtain the assistance of a Thai firm on this case. I don’t think there would be much to obtain in the way of damages. I don’t see an Asian court attaching much worth to the life of a dog.

Why not file suit against the parent company in the States? I’m sure that an American jury would place extremely high value on a dog’s life, and would award substantial damages for the emotional suffering of its owner in such circumstances. Isn’t that so?

Why not file suit against the parent company in the States? I’m sure that an American jury would place extremely high value on a dog’s life, and would award substantial damages for the emotional suffering of its owner in such circumstances. Isn’t that so?[/quote]

I suppose that’s a possibility.

But if anyone wants to bring such a suit, it will be up to them to gather and organize their plaintiff group and then seek legal counsel.

What if that dog was the reincarnation of an ancestor. Under some beliefs in Thailand that is worse than killing a person.
You could also sue for the meat as dog meat is a big favourite in Thailand. You ate the dog and you got sick…

i find it hard to believe that there is no one in taiwan to sue. whether or not it will happen, especially in the current post-election environment, is another matter.

pedigree knew or had good reason to suspect that they were selling a product that was killing dogs. my vet estimates at least 5,000 dogs dead island-wide. (and that’s not counting the dogs that were affected, got sick and required 24-hour care before they survived. hey, vet bills are not cheap)

he explained the process to me. when the vets discovered sonmething was up and suspected pedigree, they told their suppliers (as most animal clinics also sell pet food). the suppliers in turn went and told their distributers/manufacturers (sorry don’t know the exact chain). it does get back to pedigree early on. pedigree in taiwan does not ignore the issue. they threaten to sue vets who spread any of these types of “rumors”.

so some of the vets (not mine unfortunately) just recommend to individual clients to try a different brand of dog food. the taoyuan veterinary association was a bit bolder… my guess is that they will be the ones who will get a class action suit going.

Pedigree is in trouble. I didn’t catch the entire news piece on TV, but I saw them taking the bags of Pedigree off the shelves, in bulk. TOTAL RECALL of the product.

[quote=“Boomer”]I got my dog from the pound.[/quote]That’s good. My family kept cats and always got them from animal rescue centers; never paid money for them. Sometimes they were nervous creatures who took a long time to get used to us and trust us. They all became firm family friends, though.

I’m sure that, if some of the people who believe their dogs died or became ill as a result of consuming Pedigree products, backed up by the vets that treated the dogs and could provide firm evidence as to the cause of death or illness, are sufficiently interested in taking this further, they could easily find a US law firm to take it up on their behalf.

They could, for example, go through a website such as this one that offers free case evaluations and referrals to lawyers: bigclassaction.com/food.html

If Jacana is still with us (I haven’t seen any posts by her lately) and angry enough to spend the time and effort organizing it at this end (as a dog-loving law student, she’d be ideal for such a role), then I’d say they should have a pretty good chance of getting it off the ground.